The Norks are Suspected of Sinking South Korean Shipping.

[Ritterin Sophia]

But I'd be worried about Nork Saboteurs sneaking in through our borders to wage a guerilla campaign in the US...

No, no, no. That's only a problem if both Korea's unite, which is why we engineered this new Gulf of Tonkin incident.

[MKSheppard]

No actually, I am worried about Nork Saboteurs slipping in in the event of a war -- our southern border is pretty weak.

[Ritterin Sophia]

North Korea's problem is, and always has been, pride and self-preservation. Most importantly pride. If you look at just about anything they do through those lenses, their actions begin to make a modicum of sense.

They aren't crazy, but they aren't rational either. They've set themselves down such a path that the only way to preserve their government is to instrument international incidents so the peasantry have someone else to vent their frustrations at, in so doing they have to keep upping the ante and become more provocative to get a reaction out of South Korea and the US after every provocation. Eventually either they'll have to declare war to maintain power or they'll push South Korea or the US too far.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

IF--big if--a Taepodong-2 were launched at the United States the only possible warhead for it with any hope of doing damage would be a biological one. And the US government did just stupidly reverse our prior mandatory policy that bio-warfare attacks would be retaliated against by nukes. But the chance of a Taepodong-2 actually hittiing North America which is the maximum hypothetical range when the minimum is much more likely, and when all the tests have failed, is rather pathetically small in an already absurdly unlikely war.

[Tritio]

N.Korea says to sever all ties with S.Korea - AFP

SEOUL (AFP) - – North Korea said Tuesday it was severing all ties with South Korea and cutting communications links in protest at claims that it had torpedoed one of Seoul's warships.

The North said it would expel all South Korean personnel from a jointly-run industrial estate at Kaesong north of the border, and ban South Korean ships and planes from its territorial waters and airspace.

The state Committee for the Peaceful Reunification of Korea said South Korea's claims that it had sunk the warship were tantamount to a declaration of war.

In a statement on the official news agency, it said it was freezing relations and abrogating a non-aggression agreement.

The statement further heightened regional tensions sparked by a report last week from a multinational investigation team.

The team said there was overwhelming evidence that a North Korean submarine had sunk the South Korean corvette on March 26 with the loss of 46 lives.

The US said Pyongyang's reaction was totally contrary to its self-interest. "I think it's odd," State Department spokesman Philip Crowley told reporters.

"South Korea is one of the most dynamic economies in the world... North Korea is unable to care for its citizens. It's unable to feed its people."

"I can't imagine a step that is less in the long-term interest of the North Korean people than cutting off further ties with South Korea," Crowley said.

Seoul Monday announced a package of reprisals, including a halt in most trade. It plans to refer the sinking to the United Nations Security Council.

The North said it would not talk to the South again for the remainder of President Lee Myung-Bak's term of office.

The conservative leader began a five-year term in February 2008, adopting a tougher line towards the North than his liberal predecessors.

The North also vowed an "all-out counterattack" against the South's decision to resume an official cross-border propaganda campaign including loudspeaker broadcasts.

It did not give details but had earlier threatened to open fire at the loudspeakers.

The North also said all inter-Korean issues would be handled "under a wartime law" but did not elaborate.

"There is no need to show any mercy or patience for such confrontation maniacs, sycophants and traitors and wicked warmongers as the Lee Myung-Bak group," it said.

The statement came hours after the North's military accused South Korea's navy of trespassing in its waters around the disputed Yellow Sea border and threatened military action.

The communist North denies involvement in the sinking of the corvette, despite widespread international condemnation. It threatens full-scale war if there is any attempt to punish it.

In an apparent show of strength, the South's defence ministry said the navy would stage an anti-submarine drill in the Yellow Sea on Thursday. The military also said a destroyer was stationed in the Jeju Strait off the south coast to stop the North's cargo ships using it.

The South shut its sea lanes to the North as part of the reprisals announced Monday.

US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton is due in Seoul Wednesday to show support to Washington's close ally South Korea during its confrontation.

The United States has backed Seoul's punitive measures and announced it would soon hold anti-submarine and other naval exercises with it.

Susan Rice, the US ambassador to the United Nations, told reporters Washington backs Seoul's decision to refer the sinking to the UN Security Council.

Clinton, during two days of talks in Beijing, had pressed China to get tougher on its ally North Korea.

China -- which could veto any UN move for new sanctions -- has not blamed the North for the sinking but called for restraint by all sides.

"The two sides believe that ensuring peace and stability in east Asia and the Korean peninsula is critical," State Councillor Dai Bingguo said in Beijing Tuesday at a joint press appearance with key US officials.

Clinton said the two sides share the objective of peace and stability on the Korean peninsula. "Now we must work together again to address the serious challenge provoked by the sinking of the South Korean ship."

Financial markets across Asia responded nervously to the escalating crisis, with one unconfirmed report from a group of North Korean defectors claiming that the North had placed its armed forces on combat alert.

The North says the South's "puppet" authorities have faked evidence of its involvement as part of a plot to ignite conflict.

Hmm, isn't this (as the State Department spokesman said) contrary to the North Korean's longer term interests? Sounds like they're trying to rattle the saber harder in order to scare people off.

There is no need to show any mercy or patience for such confrontation maniacs, sycophants and traitors and wicked warmongers as the Lee Myung-Bak group

Hypocritical nutters!

[Master of Ossus]

It irritates me when ignorant people call North Korea's leadership crazy. Crazy implies that they don't think logically, that they do bad things just...because.
[...]
No, the Northern leadership isn't crazy - not in control of their mental facilities. They know what they face. They know that their country is in ruins, and they know that if war comes about they will lose. They also know that if they loosen control over their society even a little bit, all those lies and evils they have committed to their own population to maintain their power will come back to bite them.

North Korea's problem is, and always has been, pride and self-preservation. Most importantly pride. If you look at just about anything they do through those lenses, their actions begin to make a modicum of sense.

What you have described is crazy. It may be self-consistent, but it is in no way a rational thought process. That their actions can be understood similarly does not mean that they are not crazy--psychiatrists and other mental health professionals very frequently understand their patients' behavior (even when they're treating people with very serious mental illnesses), but that doesn't absolve the patients of teh charge of crazy.

[Nephtys]

Hasn't NK 'cut off ties' like a dozen times in just the last decade alone? More trying to grab attention so they can squeeze some concession in food aid or somesuch to 'bring them back to the negotiating table'. That's all it is. They're not going to risk a war, because they will be obliterated, no matter how much damage they inflict on South Korea. There's just so many incidents over the years, such as the infamous Axe Murder case.

[phongn]

IF--big if--a Taepodong-2 were launched at the United States the only possible warhead for it with any hope of doing damage would be a biological one. And the US government did just stupidly reverse our prior mandatory policy that bio-warfare attacks would be retaliated against by nukes. But the chance of a Taepodong-2 actually hittiing North America which is the maximum hypothetical range when the minimum is much more likely, and when all the tests have failed, is rather pathetically small in an already absurdly unlikely war.

I believe the present policy makes a pointed exception for nations who have not signed the NNPT (e.g. the DPRK).

[Edward Yee]

North Korea's problem is, and always has been, pride and self-preservation. Most importantly pride. If you look at just about anything they do through those lenses, their actions begin to make a modicum of sense.

I think part of it is that to many of us, pride (of the sort that the North Korean regime publicly projects) IS crazy, especially in matters of life or death of the state, and dangerously so.

Thanks. The USAF have it engraved on North Korea's leadership's tombstones following their removal from power, via MOAB.

Puh-LEEEEEASE... villains don't need tombstones! [/Fist of the North Star quote of the day]

[The Grim Squeaker]

I am wondering why SK doesn't buy the ABM and missile defense tech Israel's been working on against Hezbollah and the Hamas..

[cosmicalstorm]

Because those systems are exceptionally expensive and they already spent a buttload of money on other stuff. Boats and tanks etc.

[The Grim Squeaker]

Because those systems are exceptionally expensive and they already spent a buttload of money on other stuff. Boats and tanks etc.

If Israel can afford to develop it, SK can't afford to buy it to defend a single location from a single direction? Said location being it's capital city?

[Thanas]

IF--big if--a Taepodong-2 were launched at the United States the only possible warhead for it with any hope of doing damage would be a biological one. And the US government did just stupidly reverse our prior mandatory policy that bio-warfare attacks would be retaliated against by nukes. But the chance of a Taepodong-2 actually hittiing North America which is the maximum hypothetical range when the minimum is much more likely, and when all the tests have failed, is rather pathetically small in an already absurdly unlikely war.

I believe the present policy makes a pointed exception for nations who have not signed the NNPT (e.g. the DPRK).

It does, I checked.

[Master of Ossus]

Because those systems are exceptionally expensive and they already spent a buttload of money on other stuff. Boats and tanks etc.

If Israel can afford to develop it, SK can't afford to buy it to defend a single location from a single direction? Said location being it's capital city?

First of all, Seoul isn't the only part of SK at risk from Northern weapons and artillery. It is at risk, but a significant fraction of the population lives closer to North Korea, and a reasonably large fraction of it lives close enough to the North, and in the wrong areas, such that they would be in real danger of being overrun if the North attacked.

But, moreover, Israel's defense system is pricey and it's designed to handle disparate threats (e.g., Hamas militants lobbing a few rockets every once in a while in the general vicinity of some city). In the face of a concerted attack from a country like North Korea, such a system would be quickly overwhelmed. Defending the South would be much more expensive, so their best bet is to try and wipe out the biggest threats while they're in the air, and stop the rest of the attack preemptively by destroying as much of North Korea's offensive capability as they can.

[Stuart]

I am wondering why SK doesn't buy the ABM and missile defense tech Israel's been working on against Hezbollah and the Hamas..

In specifics, because the Israeli system isn't designed to cope with the weight of attack North Korea is likely to throw at the South. The Israeli system is great for defending what amounts to a point target against attack which is why Singapore wants it. Korea is an area target and that's a lot harder to defend.

In a general sense - why doesn't the South buy an ABM system, the answer is that they have. They are installing AEGIS on their KDX-3 destroyers and getting the infrastructure for a land-based ABM system set up. Also, there are a lot of US ABM assets already screening the South from both offshore and onshore.

[CJvR]

It irritates me when ignorant people call North Korea's leadership crazy. Crazy implies that they don't think logically, that they do bad things just...because.

Normally I would agree, but this latest incident seriously make me doubt their sanity. Logically this could well escalate to a shooting war, and thus the destruction of NK, because there isn't much slack left once you start torpedoing ships without warning or provocation.

[Nephtys]

It irritates me when ignorant people call North Korea's leadership crazy. Crazy implies that they don't think logically, that they do bad things just...because.

Normally I would agree, but this latest incident seriously make me doubt their sanity. Logically this could well escalate to a shooting war, and thus the destruction of NK, because there isn't much slack left once you start torpedoing ships without warning or provocation.

Except they are crazy, and often do illogical things. What kind of a nation's leadership kidnaps japanese actresses, and makes them act in your own fan-scripts? What kind of nation's heir to the head of state gets caught trying to smuggle themselves and their families into Disney Land? What kind of head of state in a penniless country demands to build a 101 story tower, when they hear South Korea is building a 100 story tower, only to leave the upper 90 floors completely empty and unfurnished when it's complete?

North Korea is crazy. There is no conceivable logic behind any of those actions.

[CJvR]

North Korea is crazy. There is no conceivable logic behind any of those actions.

Perhaps, but this latest stunt is a particular kind of dangerous crazy - the kind that could well end up igniting the war again. If the Norks start shooting torps left and right without warning or provocation the only thing left to do is issuing shoot on sight orders to the US and RoK navies... How much of the ceasefire remain then?

ps: Read that the Nork subs are AWOL from their base, just what we needed...

[Night_stalker]

Hey, let's see if they can deal with a couple LA class subs!

[Isolder74]

I'm not sure that they could deal with a few Kato-class subs from WWII. The North Korea subs are far from reliable and are far from being able to stand up to even a small ASW force in battle. If they try causing more sinkings this will only make the problem much worse then it is already. If North Korea was smart they would have docked all their subs and made sure that the US/South Koreans can see that they are all accounted for. Sending their subs out 'AWOL' is not a good idea at this point in time considering the mess they are in already.

[Night_stalker]

Maybe they figure "Hey, it can't get any worse."

[Starglider]

So if SK or the US got one of their subs to sink a couple of NK subs, would NK even know it happened? As in, could they confirm that the subs were destroyed by hostile action instead of just lost to accidents? If they were sunk in fairly deep water, I can't see how they could possibly prove hostile action.

[CJvR]

Hey, let's see if they can deal with a couple LA class subs!

Well if they have permission to fire and the LAs dont they just might deal with them...

[ShadowDragon8685]

Except they are crazy, and often do illogical things. What kind of a nation's leadership kidnaps japanese actresses, and makes them act in your own fan-scripts?

Wait, what? What incident are you talking about, because that sounds...

What kind of nation's heir to the head of state gets caught trying to smuggle themselves and their families into Disney Land?

Again: what? Are you for real? Of course you're for real, but could you provide the details?

What kind of head of state in a penniless country demands to build a 101 story tower, when they hear South Korea is building a 100 story tower, only to leave the upper 90 floors completely empty and unfurnished when it's complete?

That one I can answer: It's one-upsmanship on the grandest scale. They heard that the Sorks were going to get a world-recor-breaking building, so they decide that they're going to take the record themselves. That building, BTW, is pretty much a needle. They produce these things for propaganda purposes, both within and without.

North Korea is crazy. There is no conceivable logic behind any of those actions.

That would be because they're pants-on-head retarded.

[Night_stalker]

THe first one doesn't surprise me as Kim-Jong Il wants to jumpstart the movie industry, by kidnapping directors to make movies. The second one surprized me, and the third I'm not too surprised about.