Uk Referendum on The EU Announced for 23rd June.

[K. A. Pital]

As long as the EU doesn't do anything petty and spiteful, I'm hopeful that the initial panic and downturn in the markets will just be a knee-jerk reaction. There's no reason why the UK has to do something that would lose Maddoctor and his wife their jobs - as long as both sides act like adults and try to maintain the benefits of friendly cross-Channel relations despite the UK no longer being under the EU's jurisdiction, the damage should be minimal.

I hope the EU gets super spiteful and wrecks the fucking place.

You don't get to slam the fucking door and then just be all rosy-cozy. Fuck that.

As bad as it might be for EU citizens working in Britain and vice-versa, you just don't get to make a joke of the whole union and keep all the benefits earned by originally joining it.

That's the same as with Switzerland. You don't get to vote against the freedom of movement because you don't like them EU citizens taking your jobs and keep all the other free trade etc. agreements intact.

There's a very good reason to punish the UK - they don't give two shits about the EU's stability or even existence. So why should others give a shit about them?

[NecronLord]

So far day 1 of 'Independant Britain' and I've heard one Leave voter recant his vote "I thought it was a protest vote I didn't think it would actually go through!" and one person who says they would have voted Remain lament not getting to the polls, "I didn't think they'd actually go through with it."

These people's lack of faith in democracy would be funny if it wasn't tragic.

And the only reason people think the EU won't punish Britain is the prevalance of people assuming Homo Economicus nonsense; even if punishing Britain was inherently harmful to the EU leaders, EU leaders are invested in the EU as a project on both emotion/personal, and professional levels. Punishing the UK may well harm some abstract macroeconomic ticker in France, but the French leaders also care about their pride and their own continuance in office.

A storm is coming.

[The Vortex Empire]

Sinn Fein is talking about Irish Unification, Spain is talking about "shared sovereignty" over Gibraltar, the pound has fallen so far that France has overtaken the UK as the 5th largest economy, and far right parties across Europe are calling for their own referendums. Interesting times, if not happy ones.

[cosmicalstorm]

Very good news. The EU is a monstrosity: migration disaster, never ending Euro disaster, nondemocratic weirdo regulations and a bunch of leaders like old Junk who are charicatures of fat bishopish old fucks.

Hoping for more countries to leave as soon as possible, in the end maybe we could get some union that is not fucked six days from sunday.

Im definetly expecting some kind of punishment to be handed out to scare others from contemplating any steps away from the EU-NATO-Bilderberg orbits.

Trump will hold a celebratory press conference when he visits his golf course.

But right now I think the most important question is if this will cause an increase in UK incest-rates?

Closing EU borders will lead to incest, German finance minister warns
Wolfgang Schäuble said closing Germany’s borders would ‘ruin’ the country

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 77696.html

[NecronLord]

Very good news. The EU is a monstrosity: migration disaster, never ending Euro disaster, nondemocratic weirdo regulations and a bunch of leaders like old Junk who are charicatures of fat bishopish old fucks.

You are aware that the British government is all these things on its own too? You say the EU is bishopish? The British government has actual bishops in it.

The Lords Spiritual - these are not like queenyio either, they get to have actual votes on actual lawmaking.

[mr friendly guy]

Sinn Fein is talking about Irish Unification, Spain is talking about "shared sovereignty" over Gibraltar, the pound has fallen so far that France has overtaken the UK as the 5th largest economy, and far right parties across Europe are calling for their own referendums. Interesting times, if not happy ones.

Strictly speaking the pound being low NOW won't actually make the UK smaller than France in GDP nominal terms. Remaining low however will. That's because GDP nominal is calculated by taking an average of the value of the currency over a period, for example the World Bank's Atlas method takes the value of the currency over an average of 2 years.

******************************************************************
On another note, please both sides continue debating. I find this fascinating even though a Brexit has caused the Australian stock market to fall, I am quietly confident the effect on us would be minimal in the mid to long term. Since we no longer trade extensively with the UK.

[Hillary]

As long as the EU doesn't do anything petty and spiteful, I'm hopeful that the initial panic and downturn in the markets will just be a knee-jerk reaction. There's no reason why the UK has to do something that would lose Maddoctor and his wife their jobs - as long as both sides act like adults and try to maintain the benefits of friendly cross-Channel relations despite the UK no longer being under the EU's jurisdiction, the damage should be minimal.

I hope the EU gets super spiteful and wrecks the fucking place.

You don't get to slam the fucking door and then just be all rosy-cozy. Fuck that.

As bad as it might be for EU citizens working in Britain and vice-versa, you just don't get to make a joke of the whole union and keep all the benefits earned by originally joining it.

That's the same as with Switzerland. You don't get to vote against the freedom of movement because you don't like them EU citizens taking your jobs and keep all the other free trade etc. agreements intact.

There's a very good reason to punish the UK - they don't give two shits about the EU's stability or even existence. So why should others give a shit about them?

People are going to lose their jobs, homes - some will have to leave the country they have lived in for years. This is only going to hurt the sort of people who you profess to care about.

stick your gloating up your arse.

[Napoleon the Clown]

I've seen comments by Scots elsewhere that support breaking away from Great Britain because, among the terms of Scotland remaining, was that Britain remained a part of the EU. The ramifications of this are likely to be far, far larger than any of the Brexiters (Brexitites?) anticipated. Lots of people just shot themselves in the foot out of xenophobia.

[mr friendly guy]

The thing with the EU is, it has to advertise that being a part of it is more beneficial than being apart from it. So there is no way it would give the UK the same benefits as an EU member. To do so would be the path to suicide, and even if you disagree with the EU, EUcrats aren't going to willingly commit suicide.

[K. A. Pital]

People are going to lose their jobs, homes - some will have to leave the country they have lived in for years. This is only going to hurt the sort of people who you profess to care about.

stick your gloating up your arse.

Who is gloating? I only spoke about pity. I guess in the "pity the fool" way, but yes, pity it is.

People are going to lose their jobs? The majority voted to leave. With a 4% difference. That is well above error margin, there is nothing "undecided" about it, it is a clear "fuck you" to the EU as a whole.

So sorry, but actions have consequences. The rise of the European far right - xenophobes, nationalists and even open neo-fascists and neo-nazis has consequences. Voting as these people encourage you to has consequences. Bad choices have consequences.

You are not helping by trying to solve that problem with appeasement and total irresponsibility. You do not appease and you do not allow people to remain oblvious to consequences and keep acting in a totally irresponsible way. End of story.

[Xisiqomelir]

As long as the EU doesn't do anything petty and spiteful, I'm hopeful that the initial panic and downturn in the markets will just be a knee-jerk reaction. There's no reason why the UK has to do something that would lose Maddoctor and his wife their jobs - as long as both sides act like adults and try to maintain the benefits of friendly cross-Channel relations despite the UK no longer being under the EU's jurisdiction, the damage should be minimal.

I hope the EU gets super spiteful and wrecks the fucking place.

You don't get to slam the fucking door and then just be all rosy-cozy. Fuck that.

As bad as it might be for EU citizens working in Britain and vice-versa, you just don't get to make a joke of the whole union and keep all the benefits earned by originally joining it.

With e.g. Danish exports to Britain being ~10% of total Danish trade, realpolitik will ensure that in the case of a for-real Lisbon Treaty Article 50 invocation the very first diplomatic activity post-separation will be a Free Trade Agreement between the UK and the EU. The constituent trade ministers will ensure it.

Similarly, Leaver fantasies aside, there will be no mass deportation of Poles, Turks and Romanians out of London or all restaurants will close, no babysitting will happen at all and no one will drive cabs or run the emerging-markets desks at the more brash young hedge funds.

[Lagmonster]

Im hearing this morning that Britain will be at the back of the line now in trade negotiations. I've already been told some very lower level trade meetings are being postponed until after Brexit as a message that Canada doesn't approve. Britain could very well be en route to being a third rate player if that ramps up.

[Grumman]

"Choices have consequences"? What's next, "This hurts me more than it hurts you"? There is nothing about the UK not being a part of the EU that demands that the governments of either side throw their own citizens under the bus out of spite. If they do so, they are to blame for their own actions, not whoever they're chucking a tantrum at.

[Zaune]

One week ago, a pro-EU, pro-refugee British MP was viciously murdered by a pro-Brexit Neo-Nazi terrorist.

And tonight, it appears, the British electorate has chosen to side with the Nazi.

You know, for a little while I thought you might have proved me wrong about political violence. That maybe the bad PR would be counterproductive for the Leave campaign.

But the side that didn't produce anyone fanatical enough to resort to cold-blooded murder has lost the referendum.

[The Romulan Republic]

One week ago, a pro-EU, pro-refugee British MP was viciously murdered by a pro-Brexit Neo-Nazi terrorist.

And tonight, it appears, the British electorate has chosen to side with the Nazi.

You know, for a little while I thought you might have proved me wrong about political violence. That maybe the bad PR would be counterproductive for the Leave campaign.

But the side that didn't produce anyone fanatical enough to resort to cold-blooded murder has lost the referendum.

It is a hell of a leap to suggest that "Remain" lost because they weren't violent enough.

And shame on you for using this result to justify your support for fucking terrorism.

But you are simply echoing every despotic coward in history who decided that losing a vote meant it was time to impose their will by force of arms.

Edit: In fact, considering that polling had the race narrow after Cox's murder, I'm prepared to bet that more violence from the "Remain" side would have made this a bigger win for "Leave".

[FireNexus]

So far day 1 of 'Independant Britain' and I've heard one Leave voter recant his vote "I thought it was a protest vote I didn't think it would actually go through!" and one person who says they would have voted Remain lament not getting to the polls, "I didn't think they'd actually go through with it."

These people's lack of faith in democracy would be funny if it wasn't tragic.

And the only reason people think the EU won't punish Britain is the prevalance of people assuming Homo Economicus nonsense; even if punishing Britain was inherently harmful to the EU leaders, EU leaders are invested in the EU as a project on both emotion/personal, and professional levels. Punishing the UK may well harm some abstract macroeconomic ticker in France, but the French leaders also care about their pride and their own continuance in office.

A storm is coming.

Given all this, and given Cameron's ouster, could new elections and a new referendum be triggered to prevent the exit? Because my understanding is that even after you pull the article 50 trigger (if it ever comes to that) the exit treaty must be signed to make it official. Without that, membership never expires.

[NecronLord]

Given all this, and given Cameron's ouster, could new elections and a new referendum be triggered to prevent the exit? Because my understanding is that even after you pull the article 50 trigger (if it ever comes to that) the exit treaty must be signed to make it official. Without that, membership never expires.

Constituitonally, yes. There's any number of ways to stop it. As a practical concern, there's not much prospect of that.

Perhaps the revaluation of large scale vote-rigging or something similar could cause a revote or a recount but those aren't likely to go in our favor.

[K. A. Pital]

"Choices have consequences"? What's next, "This hurts me more than it hurts you"? There is nothing about the UK not being a part of the EU that demands that the governments of either side throw their own citizens under the bus out of spite. If they do so, they are to blame for their own actions, not whoever they're chucking a tantrum at.

Yes, there is nothing that demands them to do so, but it will happen even them unwilling. First of all, by removing oneself from the customs union, one creates a whole lot of problems for any industry that assembles parts and does not have a full assembly cycle inside Britain, but only works as a part of a greater international supply chain for semi-finished goods. I know it might sound magical to someone who is not working with this, but no company would want to keep a part of its supply chain in Britain if it means customs problems. So physical production of industrial goods will suffer. No escape. You cannot force businesses to remain even if you wanted to. Secondly, the agreement on the free movement of persons allowed EU citizens to freely take up employment in any member nation - there are scant few other examples of such free trans-border employment agreements and even nations that are developed and friendly do not let residents to just arrive with a passport and start working. No, there's a visa process, a residence permit process, all of which takes money, time, and countless approvals for non-citizens. Ask Americans who work in Europe. They're on the best terms possible and pull way more weight than Britain internationally. But they face hurdles a person from the EU does not, and never will.

Learn to respect reality when it hits you in your face. It is not just political circus, and laws are not made for idiots to mock them.

With e.g. Danish exports to Britain being ~10% of total Danish trade, realpolitik will ensure that in the case of a for-real Lisbon Treaty Article 50 invocation the very first diplomatic activity post-separation will be a Free Trade Agreement between the UK and the EU. The constituent trade ministers will ensure it.

Yes. But FTA as "Agreement" and FTA as "Area" are different. The EU has free trade agreements with South Korea. Doesn't make them a part of the customs union, so customs will be a problem. Again.

And for free movement of persons - see above. Besides, the Leavers voted leave exactly to prevent free movement of persons. Like Switzerland! Well, let them eat the cake they have baked.

[Darth Nostril]

The pound at a thirty year low and £200 billion wiped off the FTSE 250.

Well done Brexiters, well fucking done you bigoted, small minded, racist fucking idiots.

So ashamed to be English and having to share a country with these petulant children.

[Ace Pace]

CNN commentator Van Jones goes on a epic rant about the Brexit, essentially blaming liberal complacency and low turnout and saying that this is a warning that Trump could win:

https://www.facebook.com/vanjones/video ... 077469910/

He has a deliberately over the top style, but if you can look past that, I think he has a valid point.

A valid point? Greater than 70% vote participation. Without mandatory voting it doesn't get much more legit than this.

[jwl]

So if I understand the way uk referendums work, the house of lords could stop this because it's counts as an act of Parliament, right?

It was a Conservative election pledge, so no. They can only block stuff that wasn't in the manifesto.

[jwl]

A few tens of thousands difference at present out of millions reported. I wonder if there'll be recounts.

Today (Yesterday now) I voted Remain then at work one of my co-workers had lost her polling card; she was planning to vote Leave. I found it and returned it to her; it's awkward when the just and right thing to do actually feels so self-destructive.

Polling cards don't matter. I've voted without bring my polling card before, it's no problem, you just say your name and address. It even says so on the polling card itself.

[jwl]

Because there is more to it than your experience as a voter. Imagine being in charge of organizing all those sites, hiring all the workers, making sure everything is in place and ready and everyone gets those little cards shipped to them AND properly marked.

Uh, it's worked fairly well for a fair while, with no real issues. There are people specifically employed by local authorities and the Electoral Commission to manage the process.

I am intrigued by how the numbers are being sent to the regional counting centres and to Manchester though - will they physical be sent to the regional hubs, and to Mancland, or is it digitised? Given the road conditions in the South East today, it could be tricky.

It's all moved and physically counted in front of representatives from all sides.

[ray245]

I've seen comments by Scots elsewhere that support breaking away from Great Britain because, among the terms of Scotland remaining, was that Britain remained a part of the EU. The ramifications of this are likely to be far, far larger than any of the Brexiters (Brexitites?) anticipated. Lots of people just shot themselves in the foot out of xenophobia.

I think there are a lot of leavers who simply do not care. They are many people who feel that they aren't getting that much benefit from the EU and they are more than willing to tolerate any additional economic problems.

[EnterpriseSovereign]

The pound at a thirty year low and £200 billion wiped off the FTSE 250.

Well done Brexiters, well fucking done you bigoted, small minded, racist fucking idiots.

So ashamed to be English and having to share a country with these petulant children.

Amen- Scotland and N. Ireland are already making noises about UK membership referendums given how they voted. Congratulations Brexit assholes, you just broke up the United Kingdom

Well, right now it looks like I'll be moving (back) to Scotland...