The 2016 US Election (Part II)

[The Romulan Republic]

So, looks like about a 14, 15 point win for Clinton. Very disappointing, as while I knew a Clinton win was likely, I hoped it would be narrower (and might have been, but for suppression and fraud), but the primary goes on.

[Soontir C'boath]

Given Sanders' experience with the DNC, can you really blame him for not putting money into their war chest?

In regards to Congressional district delegates, he won 8 out of 27 districts. So that should hopefully cushion the blow.

[The Romulan Republic]

One thing that's notable tonight:

There has been no speech from Sanders, no comment on the result. Instead he's apparently headed back to Vermont to meet with his people, or so I've heard.

That honestly gives me the vibe that he's debating weather to/preparing to drop out.

I'd be kind of surprised, because he's been very adamant about staying in to the end. I'd even be a little disappointed, as it is still possible for him to win, and regardless, I'd kind of like to see how far he can take it, and see as much support for some of his policies as possible built up. But I wonder if he's actually going to call it quits.

Or maybe I'm just misreading it.

[Soontir C'boath]

I'm still puzzled as to why he thought it was a good idea to give a speech in PA on the day of the NY primary. Everyone else except Kasich was in NY today IIRC.

[The Romulan Republic]

Would it really have made any difference if he was in New York today, as opposed to in a state where he still has a week left to campaign?

[FireNexus]

Sanders has been done since March 15, and this loss just confirms it. His "path to the nomination" required such an implausibly large margin string of unlikely victories that he only people who doubted it were Jeff Weaver and people drinking the Bernie koolaid.

[maraxus2]

Gaidin, it is fact that those southern states are heavily Right wing states that are unlikely to mean anything for the Democrats in the general election. It is also true, as I recall, that Sanders didn't compete much their (though probably because he knew he wasn't competitive). Pointing that out is not the same as saying the Deep South doesn't matter.

Also, while attacking Sanders for his association with Cornell West, the article leaves out that West is himself a black man, which casts a rather different light on his comments.

Finally, let's be honest about what this article is insinuating, without quite saying it- that by trying to put the best possible spin on the situation in the South (which any campaign could be expected to do), Sanders and his campaign are racist against African Americans. I find this deeply offensive.

Southern states are conservative, you fatuous nincompoop, not Democratic voters within those states. And while some of them might not matter in the general election, some of them are almost certainly going to be swing-states if not Dem-leaning. Think Virginia, North Carolina, and Florida. Georgia might even be in play this election. Who do you think is going to carry those states over the line for the Dems? Oblivious Sanders supporters like you, or the Black Democrats who vote Democratic in practically every election and rejected Bernie by yuge margins?

So, looks like about a 14, 15 point win for Clinton. Very disappointing, as while I knew a Clinton win was likely, I hoped it would be narrower (and might have been, but for suppression and fraud), but the primary goes on.

"suppression and fraud." Right. Like that would have stopped Bernie from losing The Bronx and Brooklyn by 2:1 margins.

Given Sanders' experience with the DNC, can you really blame him for not putting money into their war chest?

In regards to Congressional district delegates, he won 8 out of 27 districts. So that should hopefully cushion the blow.

Sure you can. He's been caucusing with the Dems for the last 26 years. And never did much to get his fellow Dems out of the minority until about a month ago.

Whatever you want to say about Bernie's odd theory of political revolution, he's always kept an arm's length away from the Democratic Party. Which is fine; he never needed their support to get elected in Vermont. But now he needs the Dem support to actually win the nomination. I'm entirely unsurprised that most elected officials either: A. don't know him from Adam, B. think he's not a team player (markedly unlike Clinton, both Bill and Hillary btw), or C. actively dislike him, since he goes around doing this absurd leftier-than-thou schtick.

[Soontir C'boath]

Yes, because it gave an impression that he was not taking NY seriously and on top of the fact that Sanders opened up campaign offices in NY pretty damn late (back in March) which ties back to the lack of push to register independent Sanders supporters to vote for him.

[Gaidin]

One thing that's notable tonight:

There has been no speech from Sanders, no comment on the result. Instead he's apparently headed back to Vermont to meet with his people, or so I've heard.

That honestly gives me the vibe that he's debating weather to/preparing to drop out.

I'd be kind of surprised, because he's been very adamant about staying in to the end. I'd even be a little disappointed, as it is still possible for him to win, and regardless, I'd kind of like to see how far he can take it, and see as much support for some of his policies as possible built up. But I wonder if he's actually going to call it quits.

Or maybe I'm just misreading it.

I've heard the best strategy is to not so much as drop out as to have yourself fade out. But, that calls for some campaigning as at least the next week goes on as you fade so your most ferdent people will still stick in. Who knows.

[Omega18]

I hoped it would be narrower (and might have been, but for suppression and fraud), but the primary goes on.

Frankly this comment annoys me especially with the fraud component. Hillary won Brooklyn about 60 to 40% tonight. Unless the alleged fraud in question specifically targeted Bernie supporters as far as what happened in that borough, it if anything at first glance made the result narrower than it otherwise would have been in Sander's favor. (I realize you said "might", but I'm pointing out the weakness of this sort of speculation as you gave it.)

Given where the remaining votes are in the state to the be counted, it looks to be likely closer to a 16% won for Hillary by the time its all added up.

[maraxus2]

Subject: The 2016 US Election (Part II)

While not as lopsided he still has not done so well with the group with there being evidence even in Colorado he didn't actually do that great with Latinos and it was Caucasians behind his big win there. The statistical reality is that Latinos and African-Americans are clearly the two most important racial minorities in the Democratic Primaries, including in New York which includes allot of Puerto Ricans among other groups with the distinction being they are all US citizens who can register to vote immediately even if recent migrants to the mainland.

It's even more basic than that; Clinton did well, and is projected to do well, in states that look more like the Democratic Party. Bernie did well in Michigan and states that do not look at all like the Democratic Party.

[The Romulan Republic]

According to CNN, Sanders has vowed to continue.

I think he wants to stick it out, both in the hopes that he can somehow pull off a win, and so that his movement will wield as much influence as possible. The Clinton campaign already seems to be moving towards treating Sanders and his supporters as an irrelevant fringe and a joke, and he's going to want to pressure her into not swinging to the Right in the general election as much as possible.

Plus, as he's said, every state should get a chance to have their vote heard (and no, he don't believe that he thinks the South's votes don't matter- just that they don't matter more than everything else, for a number of often-legitimate reasons).

[Gaidin]

The Clinton campaign already seems to be moving towards treating Sanders and his supporters as an irrelevant fringe and a joke,

To wit,

As someone who generally supports the Clinton Campaign more as someone who doesn't like Bernie I just say, I treat people as irrelevant as they treat me.

[maraxus2]

According to CNN, Sanders has vowed to continue.

I think he wants to stick it out, both in the hopes that he can somehow pull off a win, and so that his movement will wield as much influence as possible. The Clinton campaign already seems to be moving towards treating Sanders and his supporters as an irrelevant fringe and a joke, and he's going to want to pressure her into not swinging to the Right in the general election as much as possible.

Plus, as he's said, every state should get a chance to have their vote heard (and no, he don't believe that he thinks the South's votes don't matter- just that they don't matter more than everything else, for a number of often-legitimate reasons).

An irrelevant fringe? He's won a huge portion of the Democratic vote. They're not treating them as irrelevant at all, except in the minds of persecuted BernieBros like yourself.

[The Romulan Republic]

I'm fairly certain the Sanders and his supporters don't regard Clinton voters as irrelevant, so much as people who's votes they'd like to win.

But if you feel it is justifiable to treat a candidate who's won almost twenty states as if he's a minor fringe candidate, especially when his support and that of his supporters will be important in the general election, you're a fool.

Edit: The fact of the matter is, Clinton needs Sanders. And Sanders needs Clinton. Anyone on either side pretending otherwise is just aiding Drumpf and Cruz.

[maraxus2]

I'm fairly certain the Sanders and his supporters don't regard Clinton voters as irrelevant, so much as people who's votes they'd like to win.

But if you feel it is justifiable to treat a candidate who's won almost twenty states as if he's a minor fringe candidate, especially when his support and that of his supporters will be important in the general election, you're a fool.

No, a lot of Sanders supporters regard Clinton voters as corrupt. And a lot of Sanders supporters regard Clinton in particular as a corrupt fraud, despite the results of the primaries. A 10 minute dip into BernieTwitter or BernieReddit shows as much.

[Lord MJ]

According to CNN, Sanders has vowed to continue.

I think he wants to stick it out, both in the hopes that he can somehow pull off a win, and so that his movement will wield as much influence as possible. The Clinton campaign already seems to be moving towards treating Sanders and his supporters as an irrelevant fringe and a joke, and he's going to want to pressure her into not swinging to the Right in the general election as much as possible.

Plus, as he's said, every state should get a chance to have their vote heard (and no, he don't believe that he thinks the South's votes don't matter- just that they don't matter more than everything else, for a number of often-legitimate reasons).

In my opinion if not for the fact that the Democratic party was beholden to big donors and biased in favor of the establishment, Bernie would already have more than enough mandate to push through his agenda and even claim the nomination outright.

Why? Well how much of the vote or delegates does Bernie have, 40%? 40% to reform money in politics, fix our healthcare system, get serious about fighting climate change would be more than enough for the party leadership to get the message. Lets not even factor in Independents that overwhelmingly support Bernie.

Now since Hillary won a majority of the vote, the sane thing a non-corrupt party would do is say ok Hillary we selected you to be our leader, these are the reforms that you need to lead to making happen. If for whatever reason it was clear Hillary was not going to do that, then the party would have a problem. Basic self preservation would lead the leadership to say "We can't run a candidate that 40% of the base does not support. Primary votes don't mean a thing if we can't win in November." Party leaders would almost certainly turn against her then. And given that there is still voting yet to be done, it would almost certainly would mean Bernie would sweep the remaining contests.

But we don't have that system. We do have a system where the party elites are firmly in support of the establishment (the donors) and Clinton. But what I am surprised and angered by is not once have the Democratic leadership taken a cue to begin proposing a package of policies to placate Bernie's supporters. In fact they seem to write them off as uniformed. On the issue of money in politics they seem to be in complete denial that the Democratic party is influenced by special interests. No its only the Republicans that are bought off.

[Gaidin]

I'm fairly certain the Sanders and his supporters don't regard Clinton voters as irrelevant, so much as people who's votes they'd like to win.

But if you feel it is justifiable to treat a candidate who's won almost twenty states as if he's a minor fringe candidate, especially when his support and that of his supporters will be important in the general election, you're a fool.

Edit: The fact of the matter is, Clinton needs Sanders. And Sanders needs Clinton. Anyone on either side pretending otherwise is just aiding Drumpf and Cruz.

Hey....Candidate had literally written off an entire region of the country by his own mouth. Tell me how you'd feel if you'd happen to be unlucky to live in the area that was drawn in the wrong pencil regions.

And that's the candidate. I'm not paying attention to his people.

[The Romulan Republic]

According to CNN, Sanders has vowed to continue.

I think he wants to stick it out, both in the hopes that he can somehow pull off a win, and so that his movement will wield as much influence as possible. The Clinton campaign already seems to be moving towards treating Sanders and his supporters as an irrelevant fringe and a joke, and he's going to want to pressure her into not swinging to the Right in the general election as much as possible.

Plus, as he's said, every state should get a chance to have their vote heard (and no, he don't believe that he thinks the South's votes don't matter- just that they don't matter more than everything else, for a number of often-legitimate reasons).

In my opinion if not for the fact that the Democratic party was beholden to big donors and biased in favor of the establishment, Bernie would already have more than enough mandate to push through his agenda and even claim the nomination outright.

Why? Well how much of the vote or delegates does Bernie have, 40%? 40% to reform money in politics, fix our healthcare system, get serious about fighting climate change would be more than enough for the party leadership to get the message. Lets not even factor in Independents that overwhelmingly support Bernie.

Now since Hillary won a majority of the vote, the sane thing a non-corrupt party would do is say ok Hillary we selected you to be our leader, these are the reforms that you need to lead to making happen. If for whatever reason it was clear Hillary was not going to do that, then the party would have a problem. Basic self preservation would lead the leadership to say "We can't run a candidate that 40% of the base does not support. Primary votes don't mean a thing if we can't win in November." Party leaders would almost certainly turn against her then. And given that there is still voting yet to be done, it would almost certainly would mean Bernie would sweep the remaining contests.

But we don't have that system. We do have a system where the party elites are firmly in support of the establishment (the donors) and Clinton. But what I am surprised and angered by is not once have the Democratic leadership taken a cue to begin proposing a package of policies to placate Bernie's supporters. In fact they seem to write them off as uniformed. On the issue of money in politics they seem to be in complete denial that the Democratic party is influenced by special interests. No its only the Republicans that are bought off.

And that may be the best reason for Bernie staying in.

At the end of the day, I will support whoever gets the nomination, barring something very bizarre and unexpected happening.

But I want these fuckers to sweat a bit. I want them to see as clearly as possible that their is dissatisfaction with the current Democratic Party, and that what Sanders stands for is not a fringe position. He's not a Ralph Nadar, who's only significance is being a potential spoiler to help the Republicans win.

[Gaidin]

Ghetto edit: from what I've read(in comments of articles), people that support Bernie are handling that a lot better than Bernie since he's not really walked that one back that I can find so...you know. Take that one as you will.

[Lord MJ]

Ghetto edit: from what I've read(in comments of articles), people that support Bernie are handling that a lot better than Bernie since he's not really walked that one back that I can find so...you know. Take that one as you will.

Normally Bernie would be bluntly honest, the reason I lost is because of black voters and my campaign has had trouble winning over black voters.

That's the truth, Bernie is not doing well with black voters.

But the problem its hard to admit that you don't do well with black voters without seeming well... racist. I mean there probably is a way to say "yes I am not winning black voters. We certainly did try and we are continuing to work on building traction with the black community, but yes it is true and undeniable that black voters haven't warmed up to my campaign." Maybe he could pull of saying that without being called racists, but I think he took the more tactful approach by not mentioning the fact he fell short in the black vote at all.

[The Romulan Republic]

Let's be honest- the moment he lost the black vote, he was going to be branded a racist for it whatever he did.

[Terralthra]

He "wrote off" a region by saying "we lost there, but at least there aren't any more states in that region left to vote"? Man, amazing how Sec. Clinton's campaign gets to dismiss states where she lost without getting tarnished by having "written those states off". Kinda like how election coverage is talking about how Sen. Sanders' campaign is being negative and how divisive that is and how much it hurts Sec. Clinton, but not a peep about her campaign's negativity and attack ads.

[Thanas]

Let's be honest- the moment he lost the black vote, he was going to be branded a racist for it whatever he did.

Bullshit.

[The Romulan Republic]

It shouldn't be that way, of course, but we've seen the Clinton campaign use whatever insinuations they can against the Sanders campaign, and its my opinion that they'd clutch at any straws to smear Sanders, because that's how political mudslinging works.

But what do you feel Sanders has done to cause the belief that he is racist, if you feel that his actions were responsible for his being seen by some people in that light?