havokeff wrote:I have a question about the law, more specifically the use of the word "authorized".
Doesn't Applebee's as a private establishment, while not allowed to stop a mother from breast feeding have the right to decide who is "authorized" to be in their resturaunt?
Does Denny's, as a private restaurant, have the right to decide whether black people are "authorized" to be in their restaurant? Or do you not recall that scandal?
No, but they certainly have the right to refuse entrance to a black person if he is a customer they don't want to serve. They just can't do it based on the fact that he is black.
Nursing mother isn't a "race", so couldn't Applebee's simply say nursing mothers are not allowed into the resturaunt while they are nursing, thereby making them "unauthorized", but that falls back to my question of who decides where, a nursing mother is "authorized" to be.
I'm not trying to start an argument or debate for Applebee's. I am just trying to think through what they are going to say in their defense of their actions.
It's 106 miles to Chicago, we got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark... and we're wearing sunglasses.
Hit it. Blank Yellow (NSFW)
havokeff wrote:I have a question about the law, more specifically the use of the word "authorized".
Doesn't Applebee's as a private establishment, while not allowed to stop a mother from breast feeding have the right to decide who is "authorized" to be in their resturaunt?
The law doesn't say "authorized". It says "otherwise authorized". In other words, if she would have been authorized to be there without the breastfeeding (and she clearly would have been), it still counts. In any case, allowing authorization to be revoked on the basis of breastfeeding would completely undermine the purpose of the law, making that an illegitimate reading of it.
havokeff wrote:I have a question about the law, more specifically the use of the word "authorized".
Doesn't Applebee's as a private establishment, while not allowed to stop a mother from breast feeding have the right to decide who is "authorized" to be in their resturaunt?
The law doesn't say "authorized". It says "otherwise authorized". In other words, if she would have been authorized to be there without the breastfeeding (and she clearly would have been), it still counts. In any case, allowing authorization to be revoked on the basis of breastfeeding would completely undermine the purpose of the law, making that an illegitimate reading of it.
That makes sense. So if a woman gets kicked out of her local Applebee's and is told not to return for whatever reason, but comes back as a nursing mother then this law wouldn't apply to her and she wouldn't be considered "authorized" based on the previous incident.
It's 106 miles to Chicago, we got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark... and we're wearing sunglasses.
Hit it. Blank Yellow (NSFW)
havokeff wrote:So if a woman gets kicked out of her local Applebee's and is told not to return for whatever reason, but comes back as a nursing mother then this law wouldn't apply to her and she wouldn't be considered "authorized" based on the previous incident.
Correct. For that matter, a woman in the restaurant could be kicked out for something unrelated to her breastfeeding. If she started screaming obscenities and smashing the plates, for example.
Earlier, havokeff wrote:I'm not trying to start an argument or debate for Applebee's. I am just trying to think through what they are going to say in their defense of their actions.
I could see a lawyer trying to make that argument (assuming it got to court—I think a settlement is more likely), but it would be a long shot.
havokeff wrote:I didn't say it was OK or offensive. You came to those conclusions yourself. I asked how it interfered with the act of breast feeding. A few people gave some answers to that.
While I personally can't say whether a blanket interferes much with the physical aspect of feeding, forcing women to use one interferes with the goal of getting more women to breast feed. Breast feeding is in the best interest of the child. Babies that are breastfeed gain immunity advantages from their mother and are less prone to diseases like type I diabetes or asthma. Breastfeeding also encoruages mother-child bonding, leading to less stress in the child. Part of this bonding is eye contact between the mother and child.
By forcing the women to cover up, it's treated as shameful and obscene (if it weren't considered offensive, why else would they be told to cover up?). This mindset doesn't bode well for convincing women that they should choose breast feeding over bottle feeding.
Applebee's corporate has given us another 'response' that completely ignores the issue. They claim all of their restaurants abide by local breastfeeding law. When challenged with the fact that the restaurant in question was not acting according to law by telling her she needed to use a blanket or leave, they simply repeated the same line that their restaurants abide by law.
I hate the word 'discreet' becuase it is impossibly to get agreement on the issue. To many, nursing in public (period) is not discreet. To others, you should have to cover your full body to do it. To others, you should have to move to a secluded area to be discreet. This is why we fight constantly against the addition of such language into law.
Whether a woman is heavy set or skinny or pretty or butt ugly, her child has the right to the best nutrition possible. The CHILD has a right to eat. Putting qualifiers on the law drives women into bathrooms and cars. It makes them supplement with formula, which hinders their breastmilk supply as well as putting their child at risk for numerous diseases and other health problems.
And, frankly, we are just sick of the discrimination. Nursing women in this country are, on a daily basis, embaressed in front of their friends and family; they are, on a daily basis, kicked out of restaurants, malls, airplanes, parks, court rooms, Disney Land, Disney World, Ronald McDonald House...I could go on.
Not a day goes by that our local LLL group doesn't deal with an issue like this...usually multiple. We've just had enough.
Say NO to circumcisionIT'S A BOY! This is a great link to show expecting parents.
Cairber wrote:Applebee's corporate has given us another 'response' that completely ignores the issue. They claim all of their restaurants abide by local breastfeeding law. When challenged with the fact that the restaurant in question was not acting according to law by telling her she needed to use a blanket or leave, they simply repeated the same line that their restaurants abide by law.
I hate the word 'discreet' becuase it is impossibly to get agreement on the issue. To many, nursing in public (period) is not discreet. To others, you should have to cover your full body to do it. To others, you should have to move to a secluded area to be discreet. This is why we fight constantly against the addition of such language into law.
Whether a woman is heavy set or skinny or pretty or butt ugly, her child has the right to the best nutrition possible. The CHILD has a right to eat. Putting qualifiers on the law drives women into bathrooms and cars. It makes them supplement with formula, which hinders their breastmilk supply as well as putting their child at risk for numerous diseases and other health problems.
And, frankly, we are just sick of the discrimination. Nursing women in this country are, on a daily basis, embaressed in front of their friends and family; they are, on a daily basis, kicked out of restaurants, malls, airplanes, parks, court rooms, Disney Land, Disney World, Ronald McDonald House...I could go on.
Not a day goes by that our local LLL group doesn't deal with an issue like this...usually multiple. We've just had enough.
Walt Disney World? Really? I thought they had a good policy on breast-feeding...
They do! They just don't let their employees in on it all the time. So, in the past 6 months, we have had moms be told that they have to nurse in the designated nursing area or they will be asked to leave the park. Those issues were easily solved when the higher ups informed the employees that the nursing rooms were not a requirement and that moms could nurse whereever they wanted in the park, but the rooms were offered as a comfort if needed.
We don't usually resort to nurse ins unless the place in question refuses to change the problem or educate their employees about policy. So, like Disney, Borders had a policy about not bothering nursing moms. When a mother was asked to leave for nursing, we wrote letters and the like until it became corporate policy that all Border's employee handbooks specifically state that nursing mothers are to be left alone.
Say NO to circumcisionIT'S A BOY! This is a great link to show expecting parents.
Applebee's appears ready to cave. They are currently in conversation with Brooke and her lawyers as well as a team of representatives from La Leche League. It seems that when they got wind of the fact that protests were planned at more than 60 Applebee's locations, they could ignore the real issue no longer.
I'll let everyone know if they end up changing their corporate policy (which is, currently, that is it lawful to ask a mother to cover with a blanket in order to create a better family dining experience).
Say NO to circumcisionIT'S A BOY! This is a great link to show expecting parents.
Applebee's appears ready to cave. They are currently in conversation with Brooke and her lawyers as well as a team of representatives from La Leche League. It seems that when they got wind of the fact that protests were planned at more than 60 Applebee's locations, they could ignore the real issue no longer.
I'll let everyone know if they end up changing their corporate policy (which is, currently, that is it lawful to ask a mother to cover with a blanket in order to create a better family dining experience).
This is great news, Cairber! It sounds like in general there's been pretty consistent and impressive success with rights to nurse in public; I hope the trend continues.
I look forward to hearing how this turns out. I'm a little envious I can't join in myself; being part of a successful protest is a wonderful feeling.
"Hey, gang, we're all part of the spleen!"
-PZ Meyers
Thanks, Eris! Despite the fact that probably a good majority of the people in this country think we are fringe lunatic wackos (and most of the media on this seems to be in agreement with that), we are getting things done. And that means more moms can feed their babies in peace, without shame, and without fear. In the end, that's really all that matters.
I was asked today if it bothered me to be "painted this way by everyone" (they were speaking of numerous threads on this started on other popular boards that were pretty negative.) Doesn't bother me in the least. (hanging around this board has given me thicker skin than that )
Say NO to circumcisionIT'S A BOY! This is a great link to show expecting parents.
The national wide nurse in went well! Unofficially we had 63 locations...some only had one or two moms there while others, like the restaurant where the original incident occured in KY had over 200. Locations in FL, TX, CA, NYC, and PA also had over 30 people show up at each restaurant site.
So far, from the stories coming in, the response was positive. There are many stories of state senators joining in on the protest and word is that a new bill may be sparked by this in Michigan.
Everyone is saying that had a lot of support from communities. We have only a hand full of stories where people complained or were rude, and two stories of Appleebee's managers telling the press they would still ask moms to cover up. But we have more stories where managers joined in the protest and demonstrated their support.
It's also the top news story in a few places. YOu can read some of them by google news searching 'breastfeeding'. Someone has also said we are on CNN! but I have yet to watch tonight to see.
Say NO to circumcisionIT'S A BOY! This is a great link to show expecting parents.
I am curious how others joined in the protest... did they get a fake boob like in that movie "Meet the Fockers" and borrow a child?
"War.... it's faaaaaantastic!" <--- Hot Shots:Part Duex "Psychos don't explode when sunlight hits them, I don't care how fucking crazy they are!"~ Seth from Dusk Till Dawn
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We brought extra signs, tshirts and stickers...plus it wasnt all just moms. We had dads, siblings, aunts and uncles; basically it was just gatherings of supportive people. SO anyone who wanted in could just grab a sign and a handout and begin!
Say NO to circumcisionIT'S A BOY! This is a great link to show expecting parents.
It sounds like in general there's been pretty consistent and impressive success with rights to nurse in public; I hope the trend continues. 
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