Give me an excuse for voting for Bush in 2004

[Stark]

Wait, so you're saying you voted on policy and not popularity, but you can't remember what those policies were? Well, I stand corrected by your rebuttal.

Can you explain why you support a man like Bush with his record circa 2004 more than a new guy? I mean, even 'he said something bad about gun control so I instantly don't vote for him' is a reason. Doesn't make you any less responsible for Bush continuing his terrible administration of the government, but it's a reason.

[MKSheppard]

I voted for Bush in 2004 so I could say "fuck you" to you all in this thread, four years later. I'm so great and AWESOME that I have the concept of predestination down.

[Galvatron]

McSheppard is a perfect example of what I said. His motives may be misguided and abhorrent to the rest of us, but that doesn't mean they're not intelligent.

[apocolypse]

Wait, so you're saying you voted on policy and not popularity, but you can't remember what those policies were? Well, I stand corrected by your rebuttal.

I'm not saying anything now that I didn't say already in my very first post in the thread.

"I personally can't recall the exact reasons I went with Bush in '04. I just remember watching all the debates and stances and finding myself agreeing with Kerry's less."

In regards to gun control, yes, I do lean Republican over Democrat.

[MKSheppard]

McSheppard is a perfect example of what I said. His motives may be misguided and abhorrent to the rest of us, but that doesn't mean they're not intelligent.

Seriously, Kerry's Campaign platform was a whole laundry list of issues that I strongly disagreed with him on:

---Legalizing Illegals
---Supported "sporting" definition for gun bans
---He opposed and voted against the Gulf War in 1991 (Fuck you man, I got some good memories out of that in '91)
---In 2002, Kerry was one of the leaders of the Senate filibuster that defeated the Bush administration's proposal to open the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge to oil drilling. (that'd be so goddamn useful now - even then I knew it was bad)

[Galvatron]

I actually agree with you on those points, but I still think Kerry would have been a better president. Hell, I may have voted Republican in this election if Kerry had won, but I couldn't abide four more years of Bush.

[Rye]

I remember being utterly perplexed why the fuck people were voting for Bush in 2000 after his mic was left on and he said some retarded shit about the press or something. That right there told me the man was an idiot and bad news, but for whatever reason, it didn't dampen his popularity at all. I was genuinely shocked that a load of adults would be that stupid (I was 16 at the time, IIRC and had put the average adult intelligence about level to my own). By 2004, I was genuinely disgusted.

I don't recall a single reasonable argument for voting for Bush, a shitload of emotive homophobia and political tribalism, but no good reasons. The closest I can recall are either single issue voters (urgh) who voted accordingly, or malevolent human beings who voted out of spite, though I'm guessing they were just bullshitting on the internet..

[apocolypse]

Thanks Shep.

[Oskuro]

I doubt anyone would be able to give Mike or IP an answer that would satisfy them.

That's pretty much the point, that most of those who voted Bush did it based on instinct, self-delusions, peer-pressure, or partisan loyalty, but not on actual intelligent reasoning.

Note that the point was not to provide "good reasons", but "intelligent reasons". Somehow people often think that something is good just because it is intelligent.



For example, in the latest Spanish election, I voted a minor party not only because I agreed with their policies, but specially because granting more power to minor parties wold undermine the ability of the 2 major parties to make one-sided decisions, forcing them to negotiate, and thus including more groups (that is, voters) in the decisions.

Not sure if it was a good call, or if it'll have much effect, but I had a thought-out motivation to cast my vote, not simple gut feeling... unlike a lot of voters around here too

[Kamakazie Sith]

McSheppard is a perfect example of what I said. His motives may be misguided and abhorrent to the rest of us, but that doesn't mean they're not intelligent.

Seriously, Kerry's Campaign platform was a whole laundry list of issues that I strongly disagreed with him on:

---Legalizing Illegals
---Supported "sporting" definition for gun bans
---He opposed and voted against the Gulf War in 1991 (Fuck you man, I got some good memories out of that in '91)
---In 2002, Kerry was one of the leaders of the Senate filibuster that defeated the Bush administration's proposal to open the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge to oil drilling. (that'd be so goddamn useful now - even then I knew it was bad)

Did you compare that list of rather minor things against the damage that Bush was currently inflicting on the country?

Your list seems so trivial when compared against the measures that Bush was taking with the economy, military, etc.

[Kamakazie Sith]

The only reason that someone would intelligently vote for Bush is if he was the best choice who subscribed to the same belief system.

[Alerik the Fortunate]

Ever so slightly off topic, I originally read the opening of this thread as "reasons to vote for Bush in 2008" and expected to see ideas for remotely plausible scenarios that would allow the current administration to remain in power beyond term limits. Fortunately, I can't really think of anything that would give them the nerve to try it at this point.

As for my own involvement in 2004, I was so far in religious la-la land at that point that I didn't vote because participating in civil government was considered too worldly. I suppose most people were just carried by the momentum of the war, and didn't stop to consider that the degree of mismanagement would lead to its continuation. That, and single issue voters. Republican propaganda control of the mainstream churches is outrageous.

[Illuminatus Primus]

McSheppard is a perfect example of what I said. His motives may be misguided and abhorrent to the rest of us, but that doesn't mean they're not intelligent.

Seriously, Kerry's Campaign platform was a whole laundry list of issues that I strongly disagreed with him on:

---Legalizing Illegals
---Supported "sporting" definition for gun bans
---He opposed and voted against the Gulf War in 1991 (Fuck you man, I got some good memories out of that in '91)
---In 2002, Kerry was one of the leaders of the Senate filibuster that defeated the Bush administration's proposal to open the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge to oil drilling. (that'd be so goddamn useful now - even then I knew it was bad)

That you'd vote over so many pandering single-item issues over everything else and believe something like ANWR would just fix everything, is absurd.

[Havok]

Fuck, who the hell are we kidding? I doubt anyone would be able to give Mike or IP an answer that would satisfy them. This whole goddamned thread is just an exercise in flame baiting.

Yup. And Mike eliminated the only real reason for voting for him in the OP. Money. The way I see it. the majority of intelligent people in this country didn't vote for him and those that did, did it out of apathy or just being fed up with the process. Or money.

[MKSheppard]

Fuck, who the hell are we kidding? I doubt anyone would be able to give Mike or IP an answer that would satisfy them. This whole goddamned thread is just an exercise in flame baiting.

Hey, I gave some good reasons; which were enough to satisfy Galvatron, but they weren't enough for almighty IP.

IP, you can suck my dick.

[Darth Wong]

I suppose one could call those "intelligent" reasons if one was totally ignorant of the damage that Bush's corporatist economic and deregulatory policies were doing to the nation. But part of the definition of "intelligent reasons" in this context is awareness of the important issues. Or, to express it in terms that Shep might better understand, threat prioritization. The threats of losing access to ANWR or slightly more gun regulation pale in comparison to the threat posed by a suicidal economic policy, which is what Bush has been inflicting on the American people since day one. The intelligent thing to do, if one is going to vote based on fear of dangerous consequences, is to vote based on the highest-priority threat.

Of course, back in 2004 we "stupid liberals" were saying that massive unrestricted borrowing had created a completely false economic "boom", but the conservatives claimed otherwise, touting economic growth figures to prove that Bush was an economic genius. The nice thing about being a conservative, apparently, is that you can simply develop amnesia and forget about your mistakes.

[The Yosemite Bear]

I know one Marxist former college professor who voted for Bush in order to accerlate the end of American Capitolism...

[Darth Wong]

I know one Marxist former college professor who voted for Bush in order to accerlate the end of American Capitolism...

Hmmm .... that is actually an intelligent reason. Sociopathic, but intelligent.

[Col. Crackpot]

ok here goes:

The world is running out of oil. Lets keep the worlds most powerful army in the middle east so the lions share of their oil comes to us.

[Darth Wong]

ok here goes:

The world is running out of oil. Lets keep the worlds most powerful army in the middle east so the lions share of their oil comes to us.

That's an interesting angle: ignore the administration's vainglorious rhetoric and assume that the occupation of Iraq was intended to give the US a stranglehold on Middle East oil exports.

Unfortunately, it appears to me that OPEC is not (and was never) particularly inclined to reserve most of its oil exports for the US, with or without an occupying army in Iraq. If China wants to buy their oil, they're perfectly happy to sell it to them.

[Enforcer Talen]

Thats usually how I justify the Iraq War. If peak oil is correct, then a sound strategy would be to gain control of it.

Course, if you play that game, most of the Adminstration's actions make sense. Increased police powers and such for population control, getting ready for the Long Emergency.

[Galvatron]

Indeed. Bush just might be a genius in disguise.

[Enforcer Talen]

Thats one I think about a lot, honestly. If Stuart is a case study on what people are like in Strategic level Policy, then the Bush Admin cant possibly be retarded as they appear. So, what is their justification for their polices? The one I prefer is Peak Oil, which makes everything connect.

This makes Bush looking prescient, which Im not sure how I feel about.

[Guardsman Bass]

Assuming no ignorance, the best I can really come up with is comparing the risk of the political devil you know versus the one you don't. Depending on what issues you prioritize, particularly Iraq, voting in Kerry wouldn't have made a huge difference. Kerry still planned on staying in Iraq, and had supported it in 2002. Kerry did not have a particularly striking difference from Bush on anything that came up as a campaign issue barring the environment and the social issues. You'd be getting at least officially a similar outcome, but with untested and unknown management - and I don't believe in a "bottom" in politics for incompetence. You can always go lower - Bush is evidence of that, compared to the previous standard of awfulness in Nixon's corruption and manipulations.

Other than that, assuming current knowledge and hindsight, there really was no intelligent reason to vote for Bush that didn't involve utter tunnel vision on a single issue that strikes others as nonsense. Like the anti-abortion single issue voters, or gay-marriage opponents.

[Guardsman Bass]

That said, I voted for Kerry in 2004 (my first elections, too, seeing as I turned 18 in October.)