Darth Wong wrote:
Fingerprinting is not "going after". It is monitoring, which the authorities did do for the mobsters' families and acquaintances.
When one ethnic group is singled out for this treatment, it
is "going after" them. It's harassment based on their ancestry pure and simple. From the article in the OP:
The Interior Minister, Roberto Maroni, a leader of the rabble-rousing Northern League – close allies of Silvio Berlusconi on the government benches – has explained his next step in his assault on the "emergenza di sicurezza", the "security emergency": fingerprinting all Gypsies.
It was the only way, he told a parliamentary committee on Wednesday, for Italy to guarantee "to those who have the right to remain here, the possibility of living in decent conditions." For this purpose the Roma – those with Italian nationality and those without, EU citizens and those from outside the Community – will all have their fingerprints taken. And the rule will even apply to Gypsy children – for reasons that to many of Mr Maroni's supporters must have sounded obvious: "to avoid phenomena," as he put it, "such as begging". The new measures, he said, were indispensable "in order to expel those who do not have the right to stay in Italy".
So they're not targeting vagrants; they are targeting Gypsies.
Wow. The difference between "have less of a problem with" and "think it's OK" might strike you as some grand triumph, but it really isn't. The fact remains that you accused people of thinking molotov attacks aren't so bad.
Still twisting my words, I see. I said they sound as though theft and vagrancy are worse than gasoline bombs, which you contorted into "think molotovs are OK".
This isn't widespread fingerprinting, it's targeted on one ethnic group.
It's targeted on behaviour, not ethnicity. I hate to break the news to you, but
all laws target behaviour.
That's funny: Roberto Maroni, who came up with scheme says it's targeted against all Gypsies, whether they are Italian citizens or not.
And all laws target behavior? To think that all those Jim Crow laws screwed over black people because of their behavior and not their skin color!
Apples and oranges. Fingerprinting of military recruits is also targeting a certain behaviour, ie- people who sign up for the military. If it was ethnically based, then it would apply regardless of whether these Roma have nomadic lifestyles or fixed addresses.
Did you even read the first post in this thread? Maroni and his fuckwit supporters want to fingerprint all Roma, whether they are citizens or not. I don't know what it takes to become a citizen in Italy, but if it's anything like other countries it means they were born in that country or are immigrants who applied for and received citizenship.
If there was a large group of people regardless of their ethnicity who went nomadic and wandered around in large camps being a public nuisance, I would support fingerprinting them too.
Define "public nuisance".
It's only fingerprinting; it does no harm. Your attempt to equate this to the Nazis is puerile and ridiculous.
It's only a yellow Star of David patch you have to wear on your clothes; it does no harm.
Think I'm exaggerating? Here's a news article on what these Fascists are all about:
Independent
Malcolm Moore in Rome
The new mayor of Rome promised yesterday to purge the Italian capital of 20,000 illegal immigrants and to raze 85 Roma Gypsy camps.
Gianni Alemanno (50) a firebrand neo-fascist and the first rightwing mayor of the city since the Second World War, vowed to make Rome "secure" as he was sworn into office after his election at the weekend.
In a sign of things to come, after Mr Alemanno's election, newly-elected Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi declared: "We are the new Falange."
The original Falange (or Phalanx) was the Spanish fascist party, founded in the 1930s, whose doctrine was adopted by General Franco.
Mr Alemanno's election was also celebrated by hundreds of supporters chanting "Duce! Duce!" and raising their arms in Mussolini's Fascist salute.
The new mayor said his first action would be to begin "immediate expulsions" of the 20,000 immigrants in the city with criminal records.
"We cannot welcome them without discipline," he said. "We will chase out the delinquents. There are 85 abusive nomad camps to destroy."
Many in Italy have been sickened by a spate of violent crimes committed by immigrants, including the case of Giovanna Reggiani (47) who was beaten, raped and killed by a Romanian immigrant who lived in a Roma camp last November.
Mr Alemanno said he would visit Mrs Reggiani's husband.
"I want to promise him that what happened his wife will never happen again," he said.
Mr Alemanno was the youth leader of the fascist Italian Social Movement and wears a Celtic cross, a symbol of the extreme Right. He promised to be a mayor for all, however, and sent letters to the Vatican and Rome's Jewish community.
Graziano Halilovic, a spokesman for one of Rome's biggest settlements of Roma gypsies, said the Roma community was scared for its future.
"We fear there will be night-time raids on the camps."
Umberto Bossi, leader of the Northern League Party, which will form a new government with Mr Berlusconi, said immigrants had to be hunted out. "We have no fear of taking things to the piazzas. We have 300,000 martyrs ready to come down from the mountains. Our rifles are always smoking," he added. (© Daily Telegraph, London)
Imagine if a group of neo-Nazis were part of a governing coalition in Germany or Austria and demanded that Jews be registered with the state, on the grounds of preventing white collar crime.
Netko wrote:
The problem is that the current NGO approaches simply aren't working (see the Economist article), the previous communist attempts at treating them like everyone else didn't work, so at this point something new, likely more intrusive is required. Yes, the Italian plan has many failings, beginning from its origins in a false security scare, however the plan itself, as far as I've been able to see (enforcing some minimal expected cultural norms, like not begging, sending kids to school, etc.) doesn't get much hate from me.
If they were going to crack down on panhandling, littering, stealing utilities, petty theft, etc it's one thing. But from the mouths of these Mussolini Lite motherfuckers you hear that they are after the Roma.
I have no beef with cracking down on child molestation, but if someone were to use the case of
Jeffrey Epstein to whip up anti-Jewish bigotry and neo-Nazis used the case as an excuse to call for Jews to have to register with the authorities and wear yellow stars on their clothes, I wonder how many people would be in favor of it.
Compared to the Italian plan, there are far better targets for you to show anti-Roma bias, like the actions of the Slovenian authorities a year or two back when a village wanted to chase away a Roma family from their village and the authorities essentially assisted them.
I don't think "everyone does it" is much of an excuse.
And, frankly, claiming that the Roma should be left alone because they only cause petty crimes is morally dubious.
Take your straw man, light it with a match and shove it up your ass. Roma, and any other ethnic or religious group should be left alone except for those who are actually suspected of crimes. No, having a funny accent or weird name or different color of skin isn't grounds to suspect a person of being a criminal.
What about their children? Did you read the accounts in the Economist article and my own? Kids who could be getting higher education, who want to get higher education, and who would be among the most productive members of society are forced by their families to instead work as beggars (sometimes including mutilation for better effectiveness) and scrap scavengers. But that is their culture, so the state has no authority to go in and help those kids out? Fuck you. I don't see you claiming that in the threads involving the wacky polygamist cults and similar shit.
Funny you should bring the children into this. The same Northern League that is promoting the fingerprinting of the Roma threatens to withdraw from Berlusconi's coalition if the government offers housing to them. So much for the idea that this is being proposed to help those poor Gypsy kids.
For the record, I'm not in favor of government surveillance against all Mormons on the grounds that some of them break the law.
See above - it actually does apply to everyone.
According to Melchior, the fingerprinting is voluntary. But if the Fascists in Italy have their way, it's going to be mandatory for the Gypsies.
Plus, with the Roma, while there are obviously plenty of "classical" racists, most people actually have anti-Roma bias based on stereotypes they really do perpetrate - mass begging, child exploitation etc.
Plus, with the
Blacks, while there are obviously plenty of "classical" racists,most people actually have anti-
Black bias based on stereotypes they really do perpetrate -
talking in theaters, street crime etc.
Zombie Jesse Helms is so proud of you.
