Bushfires in Victoria

[tim31]

'fix' might be a bit optimistic? I'll go for 'cushion'? But you're right; it does give reprieve to the construction industry in Victoria.

Current count is 181. Looters have been spotted amongst the ruins.

[thejester]

Is there actual confirmed reports of looters? Because Channel 9 had a report which amounted to one of their producers talking to his neighbour who had talked to people down the road who had seen people who could have been looters.

Screamed 'New Orleans hysteria' to me.

[Sky Captain]

Just watched few videos about Australian forest fires, have to say never thought a forest fire can become so intense, it looked like that burning forest were soaked with gasoline and then set off.

Too bad we don`t have the technology to make supertankers fly.

[Lusankya]

Just watched few videos about Australian forest fires, have to say never thought a forest fire can become so intense, it looked like that burning forest were soaked with gasoline and then set off.

Just about. Eucalyptus trees are full of eucalyptus oil. They burn really really well.

[Broomstick]

Not only that, but at high temps (around 40 C) they start to admit eucalyptus oil vapor, which is flammable. Basically, an overheated forest of eucalyptus are nature's own fuel-air explosives. Drought accentuates this little quirk. They aren't the only plants capable of out-gassing flammable vapor (pines and the herb rosemary can, too) but they are some of the best at it. Due to an indigenous fungus, Australian eucalyptus are somewhat restrained in growth, but in California their transplanted cousins grow wildly, and have been reported to literally explode like small bombs when a forest fire hits them. Like the California Redwoods, many eucalyptus are evolved to germinate only after fires and thus are dependent on them, but that's normal bushfires. Firestorm conditions consume the seeds instead of liberating them. Many of these problems are intensified by drought and by human suppression of small fires that would reduce available fuel, avoiding larger burns, although in the past I'm sure there were firestorms, too.

[The Big I]

Not only that, but at high temps (around 40 C) they start to admit eucalyptus oil vapor, which is flammable. Basically, an overheated forest of eucalyptus are nature's own fuel-air explosives. Drought accentuates this little quirk. They aren't the only plants capable of out-gassing flammable vapor (pines and the herb rosemary can, too) but they are some of the best at it. Due to an indigenous fungus, Australian eucalyptus are somewhat restrained in growth, but in California their transplanted cousins grow wildly, and have been reported to literally explode like small bombs when a forest fire hits them. Like the California Redwoods, many eucalyptus are evolved to germinate only after fires and thus are dependent on them, but that's normal bushfires. Firestorm conditions consume the seeds instead of liberating them. Many of these problems are intensified by drought and by human suppression of small fires that would reduce available fuel, avoiding larger burns, although in the past I'm sure there were firestorms, too.

I just glad I live in WA the fires over look absolutely devastating, over here we back burn our forrest at the start of winter it helps keep down the natural "litter" unlike Vic and this is what is making this fire so devastating in Vic. That and its usually not a good thing that your house is in the middle of a forrest full of trees that they make an oil out of.

[Lusankya]

I found this article on the effect on the wildlife. I always feel sorriest for the animals, because they don't really have a choice about where to live, and they don't have access to mobile phones or anything, and they can't understand English anyway, so there's no way that they can be warned about the fires. I guess they're adapted to it and all, but this time the fires were travelling faster than a kangaroo, and higher than the highest trees, so lots of them couldn't get out in time. Even the poor wombats, who can survive in their burrows won't have any food available because it's all been burnt.

And of course, there are lots of endangered animals whose habitat has been destroyed by the fires. Who knows. Maybe entire species have been burnt to death.

What I think is sweet, though, is that the animals seem to be accepting all the human help. I guess maybe they're in shock, but it's good that they seem to know that we're helping them.

link

Millions of animals dead in Australia fires

By KRISTEN GELINEAU – 12 hours ago

SYDNEY (AP) — Kangaroo corpses lay scattered by the roadsides while wombats that survived the wildfire's onslaught emerged from their underground burrows to find blackened earth and nothing to eat.

Wildlife rescue officials on Wednesday worked frantically to help the animals that made it through Australia's worst-ever wildfires but they said millions of animals likely perished in the inferno.

Scores of kangaroos have been found around roads, where they were overwhelmed by flames and smoke while attempting to flee, said Jon Rowdon, president of the rescue group Wildlife Victoria.

Kangaroos that survived are suffering from burned feet, a result of their territorial behavior. After escaping the initial flames, the creatures — which prefer to stay in one area — likely circled back to their homes, singeing their feet on the smoldering ground.

"It's just horrific," said Neil Morgan, president of the Statewide Wildlife Rescue Emergency Service in Victoria, the state where the raging fires were still burning. "It's disaster all around for humans and animals as well."

Some wombats that hid in their burrows managed to survive the blazes, but those that are not rescued face a slow and certain death as they emerge to find their food supply gone, said Pat O'Brien, president of the Wildlife Protection Association of Australia.

The official human death toll stood at 181 from the weekend's deadly fires and authorities said it would exceed 200. While the scope of the wildlife devastation was still unclear, it was likely to be enormous, Rowdon said.

"There's no doubt across that scale of landscape and given the intensity of the fires, millions of animals would have been killed," he said.

Hundreds of burned, stressed and dehydrated animals — including kangaroos, koalas, lizards and birds — have already arrived at shelters across the scorched region. Rescuers have doled out antibiotics, pain relievers and fluids to the critters in a bid to keep them comfortable, but some of the severely injured were euthanized to spare any more suffering.

"We've got a wallaby joey at the moment that has crispy fried ears because he stuck his head out of his mum's pouch and lost all his whiskers and cooked up his nose," Rowdon said. "They're the ones your hearts really go out to."

In some of the hardest-hit areas, rescuers used vaporizing tents to help creatures whose lungs were burned by the searing heat and smoke.

One furry survivor has emerged a star: a koala, nicknamed "Sam" by her rescuers, was found moving gingerly on scorched paws by a fire patrol on Sunday. Firefighter David Tree offered the animal a bottle of water, which she eagerly accepted, holding Tree's hand as he poured water into her mouth — a moment captured in a photograph seen around the world.

"You all right, buddy?" Tree asks in a video of the encounter as he approaches the koala. Later, as Sam thirstily gulps from the bottle, he quips: "How much can a koala bear?"

Often mistakenly called koala bears because they resemble a child's teddy bear, the marsupial is actually a rather grumpy creature with a loud growl and sharp claws.

Sam is being treated at the Mountain Ash Wildlife Shelter in Rawson, 100 miles (170 kilometers) east of Melbourne, where she has attracted the attention of a male koala, nicknamed "Bob," manager Coleen Wood said. The two have been inseparable, with Bob keeping a protective watch over his new friend, she said.

Meanwhile, workers at the shelter were scrambling to salve the wounds of possums, kangaroos, lizards — "everything and anything," Wood said.

"We had a turtle come through that was just about melted — still alive," Wood said. "The whole thing was just fused together — it was just horrendous. It just goes to show how intense (the fire) was in the area."

The animals arriving appear stressed, but generally seem to understand the veterinarians are trying to help them, Wood said. Kangaroos and koalas are widespread in Australia and are not particularly afraid of humans.

Volunteers from the animal welfare group Victorian Advocates for Animals filled 10 giant bins with 2,300 dead grey-headed flying foxes that succumbed to heat stroke Saturday, said Lawrence Pope, the group's president. Volunteers tried to save some of the bats by giving them fluids and keeping them cool, Pope said, but the creatures were simply too stressed and perished.

"It's heartbreaking," Pope said. "They're very endearing animals and to see them die right before our eyes is something that wildlife rescuers and carers just find appalling."

[weemadando]

I'd like to say some things about the BULLSHIT that has been bandied about.

We at Centrelink are a service delivery agency. We do not set policy. We can only implement the legislation and policy which we are given. And until such a time as a relevant gov't body gives us new rules, we have to use the old ones.

Now, we're not fucking stupid, of course we know that there's serious issues with getting ID or payment destination details (like a bank statement) for someone who's house has been destroyed, but we have our hands tied by the LAW. We can't hand out cash-in-hand unless we've been given a specific remit to do so, not to mention being given the means to do so. And even if we do hand out cash, it's not unreasonable to ask for this information.

But no, even that has been cut back by this bullshit whinging. People can get 1k+, cash in hand, just for fronting up at one of the response sites and saying: "I'm a fire victim" and then giving some basic details. We don't have the infrastructure to run checks on that stuff live, so we are apparently just taking notes of what we are told, giving out cash and putting it all in the system later. And it's sad that it's the case, but we all just know that there will always be some people out there willing to exploit these circumstances for their own gain.

And because of some people's impatience, it's just become a lot easier for people who want to, to take money from those who need it most.

The moral of the story? Don't be a dick. And don't be a News Ltd journalist.

[mr friendly guy]

I saw that rant 1 or 2 days ago. I remember mocking the journalist, like he expected Kevin Rudd or centre link workers to magically be able to tell you are a fire victim. With no identification asked, what the hell is to stop opportunists from rocking up and asking for government assistance?

There have already been reports of people pretending to be red cross workers collecting money, so really. If it later turned out that people had been rorting the system, Rudd would have been blamed for not forseeing this. Requiring proof of identity is the right choice to make. I am not going to pretend it won't take time to provide the proof, but at least we stop frauds exploiting the tragedy.

[weemadando]

It's just a fucking shambles at the moment - everyone is doing their best, but they're also falling over each other to do it. Apparently there's way too much of certain things in some towns and none of them in other towns, while other towns have a shitload of something else that you can't find in the first town. The aid is getting to places, but because there's no real plan as yet for everything it's apparently having a hard time in the distribution phase.

And because every politician in Australia has suddenly declared this priority no.1 (and the media is happily helping that along), the half-formed decision making process is now only quarter-formed but DAMNIT WE'VE GOT TO BE SEEN TO BE DOING SOMETHING!

[mr friendly guy]

They caught someone blamed for one of the bushfires. Note at this point there may be more than one arsonist. Giving the awesome treatment Stofsk got from the Victorian justice system, I don't think this guy will fare too well.

[Aratech]

They caught someone blamed for one of the bushfires. Note at this point there may be more than one arsonist. Giving the awesome treatment Stofsk got from the Victorian justice system, I don't think this guy will fare too well.

Details, please?

[mr friendly guy]

The information has been going around Australian news outlet, but for those of us who don't have access.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009 ... 491328.htm

Arson accused moved to Melbourne amid security concerns

Posted Fri Feb 13, 2009 7:26pm AEDT
Updated Fri Feb 13, 2009 7:48pm AEDT

A court has heard that the man charged over the Churchill-Jeeralang bushfire in eastern Victoria may need to be protected from other prisoners.

Assistant Police Commissioner Dannye Maloney says the man has been moved to Melbourne due to security concerns.

"People are pointing fingers, people are jumping to conclusions, rumours and innuendos are ebbing... we do not need that," he said.

"Let Victoria Police do its role, we identified this person, we are prosecuting this person on behalf of the community."

The man, who can not be named, has been charged with one count of arson causing death, one count of deliberately lighting a bushfire, and one count of possessing child pornography.

Twenty-one people are confirmed to have died in the bushfire on Saturday.

The man did not attend the brief hearing at the Latrobe Valley Magistrates Court this afternoon.

Magistrate Clive Allsop ordered that he undergo a psychiatric assessment.

There was no application for bail, and the man will appear in the Melbourne Magistrates Court on Monday.

Unless you were refering to what happened to Stofsk, in which case its freely available on this board. Just search away or ask Vympel or Mr Fibble.

[Darth Wong]

And because every politician in Australia has suddenly declared this priority no.1 (and the media is happily helping that along), the half-formed decision making process is now only quarter-formed but DAMNIT WE'VE GOT TO BE SEEN TO BE DOING SOMETHING!

Maybe you should invade a foreign country. I hear that works.

[weemadando]

And because every politician in Australia has suddenly declared this priority no.1 (and the media is happily helping that along), the half-formed decision making process is now only quarter-formed but DAMNIT WE'VE GOT TO BE SEEN TO BE DOING SOMETHING!

Maybe you should invade a foreign country. I hear that works.

We've been trying to build public support...

Really though, this is just a damn shame. And now it's official that we can only ask for a name and signature. That's all it takes to get cash in hand, ex-gratia payments from the gov't in the 4 figure per person range. No doubt the same media that was biting out heads off over following the legislation early last week will turn on us in a few months should there be reports of abuse of this - saying "why didn't Centrelink do more to prevent these poor people's misfortune from being taken advantage of..."

[bobnik]

Maybe you should invade a foreign country. I hear that works.

We've been trying to build public support...

The other video for that is on this page. The Gruen transfer was pretty cool.

So how does it work if someone wants Centrelink benefits after an ordinary housefire, and has no ID?

[weemadando]

Maybe you should invade a foreign country. I hear that works.

We've been trying to build public support...

The other video for that is on this page. The Gruen transfer was pretty cool.

So how does it work if someone wants Centrelink benefits after an ordinary housefire, and has no ID?

It doesn't. This is "special directive from the gov't of the day" stuff that I'm talking about.

In most cases where people cannot provide PoI we have a form which is an alternative PoI review of sorts. People supply a lot of personal info (relatives, employers, past addresses etc) which can be used to verify that this is that person.

However for the bushfires, due to the "special directives" we were not even meant to ask for these. Name and signature was it. Hopefully by now we will have gotten a bit more infrastructure and order in place to allow things to work properly.

[weemadando]

News.com.au - an early contender for AWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW story of the year.

[The Grim Squeaker]

There is a plus side to all this - it could fix the "economic downturn" in Australia by creating a massive boom in the construction and related trades industries for the next few years due to the PMs pledge to rebuild everything.

No, not at all.
That's something often thrown about in critique of GDP ""growth"" (intentional double ellipses) - smashing a window then rebuilding it is economic activity, but the net output is NEGATIVE - you have the same product/service at the end that you did in the beginning and you expended the energy and wages on the labour to repair it.

Consider - for the same amount of wages (which come from somewhere at something's expense), material (which increases the cost of, say, concrete) and labourers spent rebuilding a town, you could build a new and better town (no costs incurred in demolishing remains) or on some other project (dams, security service, or just less taxes and letting people work normally).

So, no. Calling that a boom is fictious to say the least. (And worse than Reagonomics, or "Great Leap Forwards" at worst). /Economics Rant-Man AWAY!


Speil aside, it's terrible to hear about the scope of the fire - As I understand it, the arsenists were just elements adding up to the perfect (fire)storm (pun not intended) - dry weather, unprecedented scale, lack of experience and equipment on the immense scale needed and problematic natural conditions (dry bush, etc').
My condolences to Australia and its denizens.

[bobnik]

So how does it work if someone wants Centrelink benefits after an ordinary housefire, and has no ID?

It doesn't. This is "special directive from the gov't of the day" stuff that I'm talking about.

In most cases where people cannot provide PoI we have a form which is an alternative PoI review of sorts. People supply a lot of personal info (relatives, employers, past addresses etc) which can be used to verify that this is that person.

However for the bushfires, due to the "special directives" we were not even meant to ask for these. Name and signature was it. Hopefully by now we will have gotten a bit more infrastructure and order in place to allow things to work properly.

I don't exactly recall the timing on this - one wonders if the govt was trying to score points after being called on linking passing the stimulus package to helping the victims. Of course they were trying to score points in general, but was the announcement before or after that gaffe?

[weemadando]

There is a plus side to all this - it could fix the "economic downturn" in Australia by creating a massive boom in the construction and related trades industries for the next few years due to the PMs pledge to rebuild everything.

No, not at all.
That's something often thrown about in critique of GDP ""growth"" (intentional double ellipses) - smashing a window then rebuilding it is economic activity, but the net output is NEGATIVE - you have the same product/service at the end that you did in the beginning and you expended the energy and wages on the labour to repair it.

Consider - for the same amount of wages (which come from somewhere at something's expense), material (which increases the cost of, say, concrete) and labourers spent rebuilding a town, you could build a new and better town (no costs incurred in demolishing remains) or on some other project (dams, security service, or just less taxes and letting people work normally).

So, no. Calling that a boom is fictious to say the least. (And worse than Reagonomics, or "Great Leap Forwards" at worst). /Economics Rant-Man AWAY!


Speil aside, it's terrible to hear about the scope of the fire - As I understand it, the arsenists were just elements adding up to the perfect (fire)storm (pun not intended) - dry weather, unprecedented scale, lack of experience and equipment on the immense scale needed and problematic natural conditions (dry bush, etc').
My condolences to Australia and its denizens.

Believe me, I have no doubts that this is robbing Peter to pay for Greg to rebuild Paul's house, but at the very least it might help to keep unemployment under the ZOMG PANIC line and more to the point, keep certain trade unions in STFU mode and have them sitting on their hands on the sidelines rather than queuing up outside Parliament house and shouting about how hard it is for their members at the moment.

And, who knows - maybe one or two of the people who lost their houses actually had insurance so someone other than the taxpayer can fund the rebuilding (this is me being a prick, because I keep hearing interviews with these people talking about how they've lost everything and they're not insured - HOW THE FUCK CAN YOU NOT BE INSURED? WHAT KIND OF FUCKING IDIOT ARE YOU?).

[weemadando]

I don't exactly recall the timing on this - one wonders if the govt was trying to score points after being called on linking passing the stimulus package to helping the victims. Of course they were trying to score points in general, but was the announcement before or after that gaffe?

The exact timeframe I'm not sure of, but you can bet your arse that having an angry News Ltd journo spouting vitriol in the media about how the gov't was being unreasonable certainly made a bad policy situation worse...

[mr friendly guy]

It turns out the accused firebug was just looking for love.

Accused firebug 'rejected by lover'
February 16, 2009, 1:05 pm

A 39-year-old man accused of lighting a bushfire that killed at least 11 people in Victoria had recently been rejected by a girlfriend, according to his MySpace internet page.

Brendan Sokaluk was also preoccupied with falling in love and getting married.

Sokaluk lived in the Gippsland town of Churchill, where the deadly 30,000-hectare fire he is alleged to have started, was once a volunteer in a CFA brigade that fought that fire and once worked as a gardener at a university.

On the website's homepage, he attacks a former girlfriend among rants full of spelling mistakes.

"I'm a young happy male who wants to meet a young loven female to marrid," he writes.

"My interest are to enjoy life to the fallest and not with ...... because she r***s behind your back and lies a lot.

"I'd like to meet my sole mate not some old hag.

"Sex sells but love larst for ever."

Sokaluk writes: "l don,t read books because they put me to sleep. my heroe is mother earth with out her we all would be dead."

Sokaluk was remanded in custody on Monday to appear at a committal mention on May 26.

He has been charged with one count of arson causing death, one count of intentionally lighting a bushfire and one count of possessing child pornography.

The arson and bushfires charges carry a maximum penalty of 40 years' jail.

When police confronted him in a public place, the alleged arsonist "went without a fight", they said.

He was transferred to Melbourne for his own safety due to public outrage in the Gippsland region over the deadly bushfires.

Sokaluk logged on to another social networking website, myYearbook , last Wednesday, four days after the hellfire on Saturday, February 7.

He was arrested two days later on Friday.

He describes his mood as "dirty" because "no one love (sic) him".

His quote is "looken for a young wife to shear my wealf with her".

He received Valentine's Day greetings from half a dozen women on the site.

Am I strange because the first thing I thought of when reading his postings was "Learn how to fucking spell properly". He may or may not be responsible for one of the fires, but he certainly screams out "trailer trash" to me. Must be the spelling errors. Reminds me of a wanker at my high school, who despite coming from an English speaking country (UK) could not spell basic words when he was in year eleven which I could spell when I was six.

And I believe your "sole" mate would be the shoe that fits. Sorry, couldn't resist that one.

[Lusankya]

Am I strange because the first thing I thought of when reading his postings was "Learn how to fucking spell properly". He may or may not be responsible for one of the fires, but he certainly screams out "trailer trash" to me. Must be the spelling errors. Reminds me of a wanker at my high school, who despite coming from an English speaking country (UK) could not spell basic words when he was in year eleven which I could spell when I was six.

No. I thought the exact same thing.

And if this guy is found guilty, then he'll probably be in solitary for the rest of his life. Either that or dead within a year. Arson + child porn? Someone with that on his record would have more to worry about than not finding a girlfriend.

I also want to know what a wealf is. I assume it's some kind of sheep, since he wants to shear it with someone.

[mr friendly guy]

And if this guy is found guilty, then he'll probably be in solitary for the rest of his life. Either that or dead within a year. Arson + child porn? Someone with that on his record would have more to worry about than not finding a girlfriend.

Unless he turns out to be a Catholic priest. Then the Pope forgives you or something silly like that. Or maybe because the priests just need to do real fires, instead of just the fires of hell to be unforgivable.

I also want to know what a wealf is. I assume it's some kind of sheep, since he wants to shear it with someone.

I guess it must what he sees as living life to the fullest, er I mean life to the fallest.