Most harmful political figures in America

[Samuel]

If you want an idea of what a police state the country was under Wilson, a Hollywood filmmaker was tried and convicted for making a movie about the American Revolution in which George Washington was the good guy and the redcoats were the villains.

...What?

Degan went into more detail, but essentially from 1917 until 1920 the United States acted like a police state. The wobblies and a bunch of other left wing groups were either destroyed or had their leaders disappear, the government started reading peoples mail and shutting down newspapers, a propaganda ministry was set up, etc. There was also the American Protective League, the US secret police essentially. Not nice times.

[Kanastrous]

Particularly not for Ferdinando Sacco and Bartolomeo Vanzetti.



This mural in their memory stands on the Syracuse U. campus, my alma mater. Alas a lot of people did not know who they were, despite walking past the mural on a daily basis...

[Patrick Degan]

Particularly not for Ferdinando Sacco and Bartolomeo Vanzetti.



This mural in their memory stands on the Syracuse U. campus, my alma mater. Alas a lot of people did not know who they were, despite walking past the mural on a daily basis...

That's Nicola Sacco and Bartolomeo Vanzetti. You know, the two who were unjustly executed for conviction on an armed robbery/murder in a trial which, under today's standards, would have been overturned on grounds of prosecutorial as well as judicial misconduct.

[Darth Wong]

As much of a douchebag as he was, can Wilson count as a harmful political figure in the present day, if most Americans have pretty much shoved him under the rug and forgotten/ignored what he did?

[Kanastrous]

That's Nicola Sacco and Bartolomeo Vanzetti. You know, the two who were unjustly executed for conviction on an armed robbery/murder in a trial which, under today's standards, would have been overturned on grounds of prosecutorial as well as judicial misconduct.

The relevance being that they were tarred at their trial as 'socialists,' 'anarchists,' and just about every other sort of 'chists' label that could be used to stampede the jury toward a conviction.

[Patrick Degan]

As much of a douchebag as he was, can Wilson count as a harmful political figure in the present day, if most Americans have pretty much shoved him under the rug and forgotten/ignored what he did?

Considering that much of the bullshit which permeates American political life today directly traces to the actions of this malign thug in a well-tailored suit —including the reason why there is no effective leftist political movement at present— Wilson can be said to still be exerting his dark influence from beyond the grave.

[Patrick Degan]

That's Nicola Sacco and Bartolomeo Vanzetti. You know, the two who were unjustly executed for conviction on an armed robbery/murder in a trial which, under today's standards, would have been overturned on grounds of prosecutorial as well as judicial misconduct.

The relevance being that they were tarred at their trial as 'socialists,' 'anarchists,' and just about every other sort of 'chists' label that could be used to stampede the jury toward a conviction.

Plus the fact that the prosecution attorney suborned perjury and the judge was openly biased against Fred Moore, the defence attorney, and declared his intention at his own private club that he was going to do everything in his power to see the two executed. That trial was a joke by every and any standard.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

Also, the Bush administration's policies are a direct imitation of Wilson's in the foreign policy sphere, and to seal the deal, his concept of "manufacturing consent" by which he sold WW1 was the direct basis of how the war was sold to the American people, and indeed, almost all modern American politics are based around the manufacturing consent concept, basically, marketeers make you want to support a policy, which then justifies the politician who hired the marketeers in implementing that policy that he originally wanted to implement in the first place... Well, you get the idea.

[Phantasee]

If you want an idea of what a police state the country was under Wilson, a Hollywood filmmaker was tried and convicted for making a movie about the American Revolution in which George Washington was the good guy and the redcoats were the villains.

...What?

Degan went into more detail, but essentially from 1917 until 1920 the United States acted like a police state. The wobblies and a bunch of other left wing groups were either destroyed or had their leaders disappear, the government started reading peoples mail and shutting down newspapers, a propaganda ministry was set up, etc. There was also the American Protective League, the US secret police essentially. Not nice times.

I was wondering about the film. Why would that get a guy busted?

[K. A. Pital]

Why would that get a guy busted?

Was answered, unfavourable portrayal of Britain who was a World War I ally.

[CarsonPalmer]

I was wondering about the film. Why would that get a guy busted?

Wilson wanted us to be allies with Britain, and so because the film negatively portrayed the British, he had the filmmaker thrown in jail.

[Samuel]

Why would that get a guy busted?

Was answered, unfavourable portrayal of Britain who was a World War I ally.

Presumably, if we became enemies of England, he would have had the movie released, with emphasis on von Stubben.

Okay, I won't do 1984 jokes anymore.

Also, the Bush administration's policies are a direct imitation of Wilson's in the foreign policy sphere, and to seal the deal, his concept of "manufacturing consent" by which he sold WW1 was the direct basis of how the war was sold to the American people, and indeed, almost all modern American politics are based around the manufacturing consent concept, basically, marketeers make you want to support a policy, which then justifies the politician who hired the marketeers in implementing that policy that he originally wanted to implement in the first place... Well, you get the idea.

Can we blame him for those? It seems inevitable based on Americans love of marketing and the ad industry.

[Patrick Degan]

Also, the Bush administration's policies are a direct imitation of Wilson's in the foreign policy sphere, and to seal the deal, his concept of "manufacturing consent" by which he sold WW1 was the direct basis of how the war was sold to the American people, and indeed, almost all modern American politics are based around the manufacturing consent concept, basically, marketeers make you want to support a policy, which then justifies the politician who hired the marketeers in implementing that policy that he originally wanted to implement in the first place... Well, you get the idea.

Can we blame him for those? It seems inevitable based on Americans love of marketing and the ad industry.

It took three years of unrelenting propangandising, cajoling, and finally outright bullying of the American people to finally get them to support the war declaration in April of 1917. Even after the Lusitania went down with 115 Americans on board, the overwhelming majority of the citizenry was opposed to entering the European war. And even with the support they got, a huge percentage of Americans still opposed "Mr. Wilson's War" but had been cowed into apathetic acceptance of the inevitable. The suppressed anger of the people came back to bite him on the ass when Americans simply rejected his rationale for the Fourteen Points, the Versailles Treaty, the League of Nations, and in the end dumped on James Cox, the Democratic candidate against Warren G. Harding, as their only means of telling the stroke-addled old man to finally go fuck himself. For the time, the effort to manufacture consent for Mr. Wilson's War was utterly unprecedented in American history. It has served as a blueprint since that time.

[Uraniun235]

The wobblies and a bunch of other left wing groups were either destroyed or had their leaders disappear, the government started reading peoples mail and shutting down newspapers, a propaganda ministry was set up, etc. There was also the American Protective League, the US secret police essentially. Not nice times.

As another example, there was an IWW leader in Washington state, I think, who was found hung from a bridge, and had been castrated, shot, and otherwise mutilated.

The coroner ruled it "suicide".

[Big Orange]

Alongside his seemingly unfathomable desire to get American into WWI (even if there was some pretext), didn't Woodrow Wilson stoke up anti-German sentiments so hard it caused mass hysteria bordering on a pogrom against German minorities?

What bearing did Wilson have on the Great Depression? I know for sure that he oversaw the founding of the Federal Reserve and even the bespectacled psychopath regreted that action.

[GrandMasterTerwynn]

Alongside his seemingly unfathomable desire to get American into WWI (even if there was some pretext), didn't Woodrow Wilson stoke up anti-German sentiments so hard it caused mass hysteria bordering on a pogrom against German minorities?

Oh yes. Yes he did.

What bearing did Wilson have on the Great Depression? I know for sure that he oversaw the founding of the Federal Reserve and even the bespectacled psychopath regreted that action.

He crushed the American Left so thoroughly that there wasn't a major political voice speaking out against the drunken spree of out-of-control capitalism that set us up for the Great Depression. That, and his getting the US into WW1 resulted in the hackeneyed peace that was the Treaty of Versailles. And then, when the US wanted to return to isolationism, and wanted nothing to do with Wilson's League of Nations, Wilson refused to compromise, so the US never actually ratified the treaty, nor did it join the League. As a result, it is definitely arguable that he bears part of the blame for both the Great Depression, and WW2.

[Pelranius]

The wobblies and a bunch of other left wing groups were either destroyed or had their leaders disappear, the government started reading peoples mail and shutting down newspapers, a propaganda ministry was set up, etc. There was also the American Protective League, the US secret police essentially. Not nice times.

As another example, there was an IWW leader in Washington state, I think, who was found hung from a bridge, and had been castrated, shot, and otherwise mutilated.

The coroner ruled it "suicide".

Wasn't that guy a WWI veteran to boot?

[Qwerty 42]

Another name that should be brought up is Andrew Jackson. Besides the preposterous level of veneration for this particular monstrosity, he was also the first to institute the idea of patronage service in the wider American political scene. This, obviously, has had a tremendous negative effect on the American political scape today.

[Guardsman Bass]

Another name that should be brought up is Andrew Jackson. Besides the preposterous level of veneration for this particular monstrosity, he was also the first to institute the idea of patronage service in the wider American political scene. This, obviously, has had a tremendous negative effect on the American political scape today.

There was some usage of this beforehand (if I recall correctly, one of the things John Adams rushed to do in the last days of his Presidency was to appoint a bunch of Federalists to the courts among other positions), but Jackson was probably the first one to simply start firing officials from top to bottom and replacing them with cronies and political supporters.

Ah, those were the days - when you could buy a commission and/or job. No strict standards of professionalism and civil service, at least not much compared to later on.

[CarsonPalmer]

Another name that should be brought up is Andrew Jackson. Besides the preposterous level of veneration for this particular monstrosity, he was also the first to institute the idea of patronage service in the wider American political scene. This, obviously, has had a tremendous negative effect on the American political scape today.

There was some usage of this beforehand (if I recall correctly, one of the things John Adams rushed to do in the last days of his Presidency was to appoint a bunch of Federalists to the courts among other positions), but Jackson was probably the first one to simply start firing officials from top to bottom and replacing them with cronies and political supporters.

Ah, those were the days - when you could buy a commission and/or job. No strict standards of professionalism and civil service, at least not much compared to later on.

The midnight appointees were actually qualified to do their jobs, though. They just weren't people Jefferson liked. Jackson used party loyalty as literally the only qualification, and threw some anti-intellectualism into the mix, as well.

[Darth Yan]

Id like to nominate Donald Rumsfeld for getting America bogged down in a war that we're still trying to get out of.

[Patrick Degan]

Another name that should be brought up is Andrew Jackson. Besides the preposterous level of veneration for this particular monstrosity, he was also the first to institute the idea of patronage service in the wider American political scene. This, obviously, has had a tremendous negative effect on the American political scape today.

Oh, Andy was indeed a right bastard. But he gets credits for staving off the Civil War by at least thirty years and shrivelling up John C. Calhoun's balls in the process.

[Samuel]

Another name that should be brought up is Andrew Jackson. Besides the preposterous level of veneration for this particular monstrosity, he was also the first to institute the idea of patronage service in the wider American political scene. This, obviously, has had a tremendous negative effect on the American political scape today.

Oh, Andy was indeed a right bastard. But he gets credits for staving off the Civil War by at least thirty years and shrivelling up John C. Calhoun's balls in the process.

And the longer before the US Civil War started, the more likely it would result in a Union victory and occur without the country being dismembered.

[Dark Hellion]

I think Jackson falls under Mr. Wong's comments upon Wilson. He was is some ways a harmful figure. But that harm was so long ago and so much of it has been either corrected or outdone that he has had an undefinable effect. Monstrosity fades with time just as fame does.

[HamsterViking]

I'm really surprised no one's even mentioned Karl Rove yet.