Lou Dobbs is a birther?! [vid]

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Re: Lou Dobbs is a birther?! [vid]

Post by LMSx »

Incorrect, the FF where very much concerned that the King would get his name put on the ballot. Crown Loyalists existed in the brand new United States for several decades after we threw the English out, and they were very worried that enough of them where around in certain colonies to face the issue that the King of England might be able to buy/bribe/steal enough votes to win the Presidency if anyone could become President. Recall, quite a few of our first Presidents could not server as President having all been born in either England or in an English Colony. It was not until President number 8 that we had US born citizens serving as President. After all Washington was born in the English Colony of Virgina not in America. So that rule was fast and lose for three decades anyway.
Ah, my mistake then.
He already released his Birth Certificate(Certificate of Live Birth), he has not released his Long-Form Birth Certificate which is another page or so of information like attending physician, time, payment information and the like. The one which everyone else in the world uses when your asked by companies for proof of ID has been released.
I meant to say the long-form certificate. I've seen some apologists out there wondering "oh we just don't know" wrt some of the more inane information on the longer sheet as an excuse to bring this up. Of course, Machiavellian reasons aside, releasing even that long form certificate would be useless because the birthers have already decided that he's a foreigner.
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Re: Lou Dobbs is a birther?! [vid]

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CaptainChewbacca wrote:
It is a "Certificate of Live Birth" to differentiate it from the "Certificate of StillBirth", aka a "Fetal Death Certificate". (The difference? If the baby takes a breath, it's a Live Birth. If they don't take a breath, it's StillBirth. If they take a breath, then die, doctors have to fill out a Live Birth as well as a Certificate of Death because the baby lived even for a second.)

So those throwing fits about a "Certificate of Live Birth" vs a "Birth Certificate" are idjits who don't know it's the Same Damn Thing.
My bad, I thought a birth certificate was issued by the hospital, and a CLB was the state record.
The one issued by the Hospital is the "Heirloom" or "Mother's Copy" of the certificate. It's got two uses. 1. It lets the mother see if there's any mistakes on the certificate, so she can correct them. 2. It looks pretty in the Baby Book.

Hospital copies have not been legal documents for a good 30 years.
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Re: Lou Dobbs is a birther?! [vid]

Post by LadyTevar »

Mr Bean wrote:
LMSx wrote:He already released his Birth Certificate(Certificate of Live Birth), he has not released his Long-Form Birth Certificate which is another page or so of information like attending physician, time, payment information and the like. The one which everyone else in the world uses when your asked by companies for proof of ID has been released.
I don't know where you heard THAT bit of information.

The 'Short-form' certificate is merely a redaction of the Long-form. All it will say is This Person was born This Date to These Parents at This Hospital in This County. Most Short-Form certificates come from town or county governmental offices, and some are shrunk down to credit-card sized. 90% of these are NOT considered valid forms of ID by the US Governmental agencies.

A Long-Form Certificate is most often an exact photocopy (xerox/whatever) of the actual certificate on file with the State Office. Since 1970, the Long Form certificates include the child's date of birth, time of birth, sex, race, hospital (in) city (in) county. It also includes the parent's ages, race, education, and job title, as well as their address at the time of the birth of this child. It will also state if this child was a single or multiple birth, and all but those in the last 10yrs also list how many children were in the family at this time (living or dead). The Doctor's name and the name of the Nurse/Doctor/Medical Secretary typing up the certificate are also listed promenantly, and at the bottom has the space for the State Registrar's signature and date of filing (my name and the date I sign it on).

90% of the US States use some form of Security Paper when they print a Certificate. Safety measures are similar to those on printed money -- watermarks, special shaded/weight of paper, micro-printing, thermal patches (they turn from pink to white from body heat), "VOID" popping out over any copies made of the Certificate, etc.
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Re: Lou Dobbs is a birther?! [vid]

Post by Alyeska »

The Born Identity

Nice Daily Show clip on the subject. Per usual, Stewart rips them to shreds.
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Re: Lou Dobbs is a birther?! [vid]

Post by SirNitram »

Lou Dobbs has gone further, insisting the Hawaii reply on why they can't release the Long Form(They updated to fully electronic records previously), somehow leaves room for doubt.

Again, my own experience with Tev and her coworkers tells me this: It fully explains it, and it's standard procedure as they go electronic.
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Re: Lou Dobbs is a birther?! [vid]

Post by CaptainChewbacca »

Plus, I believe at least TWO independent and nonpartisan organizations have been permitted to view the doccument (one was factcheck.org, I can't remember the other). Both had experts that certified it as genuine.

One thing new that I heard today was that there was a birth announcement or article in the local paper of Obama's birth. Anyone know if it's true? It would certainly lend a different kind of credibility. Funnily enough, there's a newspaper article about MY birth (and Kodiak's, we're twins). It was a slow news day, so an 'Its Twins!' article and headline made it into the local paper. There was even a picture of the banner my grandmother had put up over the front porch.
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Re: Lou Dobbs is a birther?! [vid]

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^Birth announcement in two local papers, as the Daily show clip shows.
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Re: Lou Dobbs is a birther?! [vid]

Post by SirNitram »

CaptainChewbacca wrote:Plus, I believe at least TWO independent and nonpartisan organizations have been permitted to view the doccument (one was factcheck.org, I can't remember the other). Both had experts that certified it as genuine.

One thing new that I heard today was that there was a birth announcement or article in the local paper of Obama's birth. Anyone know if it's true? It would certainly lend a different kind of credibility. Funnily enough, there's a newspaper article about MY birth (and Kodiak's, we're twins). It was a slow news day, so an 'Its Twins!' article and headline made it into the local paper. There was even a picture of the banner my grandmother had put up over the front porch.
Slow news day nothing. Most local papers have a list of recent birth-deaths. At least, most I've read.
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Re: Lou Dobbs is a birther?! [vid]

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CaptainChewbacca wrote:One thing new that I heard today was that there was a birth announcement or article in the local paper of Obama's birth. Anyone know if it's true? It would certainly lend a different kind of credibility.
Yes, it's true - I saw a copy of the announcement months ago. And yes, it's been certified as genuine.
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Re: Lou Dobbs is a birther?! [vid]

Post by Elfdart »

This morning on CNN, a reporter from USA Today said that her paper was the only one that hadn't run any of this birther nonsense and that it was a breach of ethics to dignify this kind of thing with attention. Between that and Charles Pierce's smackdown, maybe some of the media whores will take a hint: they are being played for fools when they run this kind of "news".
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Re: Lou Dobbs is a birther?! [vid]

Post by Frank Hipper »

So, it's up to USA Today to spank the rest of the media. :shock:


...I remember the time when that paper was a laughingstock; Happy News For Happy People With Happy Problems.
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Re: Lou Dobbs is a birther?! [vid]

Post by Elfdart »

Frank Hipper wrote:So, it's up to USA Today to spank the rest of the media. :shock:
Why not? The nation's most trusted outlet for TV news is The Daily Show and the political figure who is best known for speaking plainly and honestly is a washed-up former pro wrestler.
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Re: Lou Dobbs is a birther?! [vid]

Post by FSTargetDrone »

Something from NPR about conspiracy theorists and birthers in particular:
Why Do Doubts About Obama's Birthplace Persist?

by Liz Halloran

July 29, 2009

Barack Obama was still a long-shot presidential candidate when he posted copies of his Hawaii-issued birth certificate online to satisfy fringe conspiracists who claimed he wasn't born in the United States.

Public service "fact check" Web sites responding to persistent right-wing agitators confirmed nearly a year ago that the certificate is authentic; they turned up a 1961 item in The Honolulu Advertiser announcing the Aug. 4 birth of a son to "Mr. and Mrs. Barack H. Obama of Kalanianaole Hwy."

And though it could hamstring his network's very own Obama birthplace skeptic, show host Lou Dobbs, the president of CNN — after a "reinvestigation" of the fable — proclaimed the so-called birthers story dead.

Good luck with that.

Evidence, Schmevidence

Evidence, in fact, has been proved to feed conspiracies, rather than kill them. Just ask former President Bill Clinton and Secretary of State Hillary Clinton: They found that three official investigations confirming that top aide Vince Foster committed suicide failed to tamp down theories that Foster was murdered — and that the first couple just maybe had a hand in it.

"For people who tend to gravitate to these views, there is simply no evidence that will satisfy them, because they believe that all of the institutions that supply a report are part of the conspiracy," says Michael Barkun, author of A Culture of Conspiracy.

Indeed, in a nod to the birthers — and with an eye on the 2012 national race, when Obama will most likely run for re-election — conservative Republican Rep. Bill Posey of Florida and nine GOP co-sponsors have submitted a bill that would require presidential candidates to provide a birth certificate.

Keeping the story alive, and trying to invalidate the first African-American president (one with a Kenyan-born father) — well, that's the point, says Jerrold Post, director of the political psychology program at George Washington University's Elliott School of International Affairs.

"This whole us-versus-them psychology is central to politics, and hate-mongering leaders will exploit this to the fare-thee-well," Post says.

Persistence And Technology

History provides a suitcase full of cases that show evidence can't kill a conspiracy theory, especially one rooted in politics and identity, no matter how outlandish.

From the founding of the country, there were conspiracy theorists who believed that world events were being controlled by the secret "Illuminati" society, a stubborn theory reinvigorated in recent years by author Dan Brown's books, including The Da Vinci Code.

Similar puppet-master conspiracy theories have arisen around The Bilderberg Group and the Trilateral Commission, international consortiums of business and political leaders.

There are fringe groups that still assert the moon landing was a hoax, that no plane crashed into the Pentagon on Sept. 11, 2001, and that President George W. Bush had advance notice of the terrorist attacks on New York City and Washington.

But the birthers have been born into a new society, technologically speaking.

"Their conspiracy theory is garden variety in the sense that it's a simple idea that can be readily disproven," says Barkun, a Syracuse University professor. "The difference, I think, lies in the fact that it has emerged at a time when the communications environment permits it to be disseminated extremely rapidly to large numbers of people by the Internet, YouTube, and cable television," he says.

Aside from Dobbs' show, the birthers movement has also found an audience on YouTube, thanks to a video of a screaming woman in Delaware confronting GOP Senate candidate Mike Castle at a campaign event.

More than 710,000 YouTube visitors have watched the unidentified woman hold aloft a plastic bag that she says contains her birth certificate, while she demands to know why "you people are ignoring his birth certificate."

"He is not an American citizen," she screams. "He is a citizen of Kenya. I want my country back."

Castle responds: "If you're referring to the president there, he is a citizen of the United States." Castle is booed.

What most people would view as truly bizarre, conspiracy theorists find energizing.

Crazy Or Not?

It would be easy to dismiss the screaming woman and other birther adherents as mentally unhinged. Some on the left have taken pains to note that James Von Brunn, the suspect in the June murder of a Holocaust Museum guard, ascribed to the birther conspiracy.

But "there is absolutely no empirical evidence that people who believe in conspiracy theories are mentally ill," Barkun says, "though, obviously, some people who believe in conspiracy theories are mentally ill."

"If one were to say, hypothetically, that they had some medical problem, that would get us off the hook very easily," Barkun says.

However, political psychologist Post does not discount the role that paranoia plays in the world of conspiracy theories.

"The quality of paranoia is not strained," he says, paraphrasing Shakespeare's Portia. "It rains from the gentle heavens."

"Paranoia is the most political of mental illnesses," Post says. "You need to have enemies."

There is no single explanation as to why psychologically normal people attach themselves to disproved conspiracies. Some may find comfort in contemplating a cabal: It provides a sense that they know the truth about how the world is organized — and others don't, experts say.

The birthers may also be driven by Obama's mixed race, his international upbringing, and the economic uncertainty that has settled over the nation.

"The story that these folks tell is based on the idea that Obama is an illegitimate president," says Mark Fenster, author of Conspiracy Theories: Secrecy and Power in the American Culture.

"Any evidence of legitimacy would spoil the narrative, and that would end the pleasure of spinning out the narrative," says Fenster, an associate dean at the University of Florida's Levin College of Law.

Damage To GOP?

End the narrative, and the spotlight would recede — a development that no doubt would be welcomed by mainstream Republicans, now being unwittingly drawn into the daffy narrative.

"With midterm elections coming up, and Obama losing some momentum, this would be a perfect opportunity for the Republicans to move to the middle, or [for the GOP to] rebrand itself as the party of competence," Fenster says.

"To the extent they become obsessed with marginal, complicated issues like birth certificates, it will be more difficult for them to run strong — especially in 2012," he says.

But Posey this week said he has no intention of withdrawing his birth certificate bill — "why would he?" his spokesman said. Republicans are bracing for birther confrontations back home, and liberal Democrats have been making the most of the situation.

A Huffington Post writer with a microphone and camera chased House members around the Capitol Monday, demanding to know whether they believed Obama is a natural-born citizen.

The House voted unanimously Monday night to approve a resolution that not only celebrated the 50th anniversary of Hawaii's statehood but also included this no-nonsense clause: "Whereas the 44th President of the United States, Barack Obama, was born in Hawaii on August 4, 1961." Posey voted in favor of the resolution.

Just Lie Low

Questions about the birthers arose during White House spokesman Robert Gibbs' meeting with the press Monday.

"I almost hate to indulge in such an august setting as the White House," Gibbs said, "the made-up, fictional nonsense" of whether or not the president was born in this country.

It's been proven "ad nauseam," he said, that the president is a natural-born citizen. Gibbs noted that for $15, anyone can set up an Internet address and "say whatever you want."

The White House has been pretty savvy, Fenster says, by standing back and suggesting that they're the "sane adults in the room, while the Republicans are out there looking for birth certificates."
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Re: Lou Dobbs is a birther?! [vid]

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Frankly, this whole conspiracy theory and its popularity boils down to racism. They want to believe he's a Kenyan rather than an American because he's black. It's that simple. And Lou Dobbs is of course the one person at CNN that you would expect to buy into it, because he's racist too. The man has built an entire public image out of saying that he's going to get the greasers.
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Re: Lou Dobbs is a birther?! [vid]

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A Huffington Post writer with a microphone and camera chased House members around the Capitol Monday, demanding to know whether they believed Obama is a natural-born citizen.

The House voted unanimously Monday night to approve a resolution that not only celebrated the 50th anniversary of Hawaii's statehood but also included this no-nonsense clause: "Whereas the 44th President of the United States, Barack Obama, was born in Hawaii on August 4, 1961." Posey voted in favor of the resolution.
This is great. The relevant Republicans simply can't go on camera and agree yes, of course Obama was born in the USA, because they'll lose their whackjob base. And by not doing so, they look pathetic to everyone who's not a fringe nutbar.
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Re: Lou Dobbs is a birther?! [vid]

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Vympel wrote:This is great. The relevant Republicans simply can't go on camera and agree yes, of course Obama was born in the USA, because they'll lose their whackjob base. And by not doing so, they look pathetic to everyone who's not a fringe nutbar.
Here you go:

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Re: Lou Dobbs is a birther?! [vid]

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Darth Wong wrote:Frankly, this whole conspiracy theory and its popularity boils down to racism. They want to believe he's a Kenyan rather than an American because he's black. It's that simple. And Lou Dobbs is of course the one person at CNN that you would expect to buy into it, because he's racist too. The man has built an entire public image out of saying that he's going to get the greasers.
Old-fashioned racism and religious bigotry is the major factor, but I think there's also something much more sinister afoot. The lunatic Right never accepted the election of FDR and the New Deal. They used to refer to Roosevelt as "that communist Jew, Franklin Delano Rosenfeld" and have spent the last seventy-plus years calling him a puppet for Moscow. They accused Kennedy of being an agent for the Pope and an illegitimate president because he beat Nixon. The avalanche of horseshit dumped on Clinton (Bill and Hillary) is well known to everyone by now (Bubba was the Anti-Christ, who could kill scores of people by willing it -just like Damien Thorne- and a rapist who molested women with his forked(?) penis like Mephistopheles). Now it's Obama's turn.

This hysteria isn't just meant to cast doubt on whether the current President is in office legitimately, but laying the groundwork for a future attempt to remove him from office -including assassination. There were several attempts on Clinton's life as well as a clownishly inept plot to blackmail him out of office, Kennedy was assassinated (as were other prominent liberals in the 1960s), and an attempted coup against FDR was aborted when Smedley Butler blew the whistle.

Now what is a "patriot" supposed to do when he's convinced there's a foreign usurper in the Oval Office? One who is a crypto-Muslim who "pals around with terrorists" and doesn't wear a flag pin on his suit?
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Re: Lou Dobbs is a birther?! [vid]

Post by CaptainChewbacca »

-edit: never mind, I misunderstood elfdart's post-
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Re: Lou Dobbs is a birther?! [vid]

Post by Davis 51 »

Oh, it goes farther back than FDR. Thomas Jefferson had some pretty outrageous smears during his time. Hysteria got so bad, people were actually hiding their bibles because they were afraid they would be confiscated if he became President. :twisted:
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Re: Lou Dobbs is a birther?! [vid]

Post by MKSheppard »

From a blog I found:

BREAKING NEWS!!!! Shocking proof that Obama was not born in Hawaii

Folks, this is big. I wasn't all into the whole 'birther' thing, but I just received this fax that proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that Obama is not eligible to be President of the United States.

This is an exclusive document found only here at Sharp as a Marble! I have verified its authenticity and feel that this is too important to keep quiet over.

Ladies and gentlemen, proof positive that Barack Hussein Obama is not American born!

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Re: Lou Dobbs is a birther?! [vid]

Post by MKSheppard »

Elfdart wrote:They used to refer to Roosevelt as "that communist Jew, Franklin Delano Rosenfeld" and have spent the last seventy-plus years calling him a puppet for Moscow.
Of course, Elfdart ignores all the evidence that's come out since 1945 about the Roosevelt Administration -- especially about Henry A. Wallace; FDR's VP from 41-45; who was very likely a KGB Source, according to Vassily Mitrokhin.
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Re: Lou Dobbs is a birther?! [vid]

Post by Elfdart »

He won't confirm Obama's live birth because Obama is a Connecticut vampire! :shock:
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Re: Lou Dobbs is a birther?! [vid]

Post by The Spartan »

Holy shit, she even looks crazy.
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Re: Lou Dobbs is a birther?! [vid]

Post by Ziggy Stardust »

MKSheppard wrote:Of course, Elfdart ignores all the evidence that's come out since 1945 about the Roosevelt Administration -- especially about Henry A. Wallace; FDR's VP from 41-45; who was very likely a KGB Source, according to Vassily Mitrokhin.
I have the The Sword and the Shield. The book only references Wallace as having been "naively pro-Soviet," not as a spy or informant. In fact, the book is pretty clear that Wallace himself didn't have a direct connection with the KGB.

What other evidence about the Roosevelt Administration are you referring to? I am only familiar with Laurence Duggan, who was with the Department of State (and had more or less been uncovered by the FBI after the war), and Harry Dexter White, in the Department of Treasury (and was ratted out in 1939 by a Soviet defecter, but not acted against until well after the war).
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Re: Lou Dobbs is a birther?! [vid]

Post by Isolder74 »

How is even his birth an issue? His mother was born a US citizen. Even if she was 14 when he was born he's still a US citizen no matter where he was born!
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