Old subject - more horror (textbook censorship)

[Nathan F]

In other words, no information at all, just enough to scare you off. Precisely as I suspected from a sex-ed program which, to repeat the point, has been NEUTERED BY THE CHRISTIAN RIGHT.

Er...what? Just because we didn't get into the gory details of anal sex and what to do and what not to do in porn, the world is being run by the Christian right? You are starting to sound like some Freemason conspiracy theorist now...

And on a side note, I think that it is a parents' responsibility to teach their children about this at the appropriate age, but, many times parents don't do this, hence the need for effective sex ed. But dangers of sex acts in porn and underwater sex? Did you learn that in school?

No, because my school program was just as oppressed as yours by the Christian right and their "just teach them enough to scare them" policy.

[/quote]
I repeat what I said above.

[Nathan F]

BTW, why the heck are we discussing this here? It goes of a discussion on censorship to sex ed and how it is 'controlled' by the Christian right...

[Edi]

Nathan, Mike's not just raving and ranting for the sake of raving and ranting. There's lots of stuff kids see in porn films and wherever that they will eventually want to try to do, and many of them will find a member of the opposite sex willing to try it with, and when there are dangers associated with some of those acts, they won't know shit about them. And you've been living with your head buried in sand if you don't recognize that religious groups are the ones that most want to suppress sex education and neuter it in order to push their moralist bullshit on everyone else. They have political power, and hence if they want something and push for it (and they have been pushing fucking hard on this issue), they're likely to get it.

Hell, we had precious little enough of sex ed in school, and I live in Finland, which is rather liberal by any measure you care to choose. Sex has been a big taboo here for a rather long time, with strict censorship rules that were only relaxed relatively recently, so in our case it's a holdover from that era.

Edi

[Knife]

I just tried to post an article about textbook censorship. If you look at the people who sit on school councils and make these decisions, they're no more likely to be soccer moms than any other group. Soccer moms just get blamed for the decisions.

They get blamed cecause they tend to be the group that does a lot of lobbying on the subject and tend to be the most unified group. They are the one that puts public pressure on the school boards.

They get blamed because they are a group (lose group, but a group) that is easy to manipualte by either side of an argument by uttering three simple words......for......the.....children. Soccer moms are soccer moms first and primarily because they are moms. People tend to use their numbers to bolster their positions in politics. THEY ARE USED.

[Knife]

Well, for example, the dangers of underwater sex, the relative percentage effectiveness of birth control pills vs IUDs vs the sponge vs the rhythm method, the actual procedure for employing the rhythm method, the location of the G-spot and clitoris, the dangers of certain sex acts commonly shown in pornography, the pros and cons and precautions necessary for anal sex, etc... Did they cover all of that?

1) Drowning
2) 60% vs ? vs 40% vs 0% -old joke. What do you call two people using the rhythm method? Parents.

3) "Is it safe?"- the man "I think!?!?"- the woman 'chicka chicka bow.
4) "Some where out there, elusive." [/shamless ripoff of obiwan]
5) A bad back.
6) lots of lube.
7) No, they never covered any of that. Had to rely on Buttman in Rio for the answeres.

[Bug-Eyed Earl]

[Nathan F]

Nathan, Mike's not just raving and ranting for the sake of raving and ranting. There's lots of stuff kids see in porn films and wherever that they will eventually want to try to do, and many of them will find a member of the opposite sex willing to try it with, and when there are dangers associated with some of those acts, they won't know shit about them. And you've been living with your head buried in sand if you don't recognize that religious groups are the ones that most want to suppress sex education and neuter it in order to push their moralist bullshit on everyone else. They have political power, and hence if they want something and push for it (and they have been pushing fucking hard on this issue), they're likely to get it.

Hell, we had precious little enough of sex ed in school, and I live in Finland, which is rather liberal by any measure you care to choose. Sex has been a big taboo here for a rather long time, with strict censorship rules that were only relaxed relatively recently, so in our case it's a holdover from that era.

Edi

And I still think that by blaming it solely on the Christian right is going too far. Sure, the Christian right has a place in it, but so does the aforementioned 'soccer mom' group. What would you think if your sixth grader came home and said that he learned what to do and what not to do in the porn he watches? I mean, call me some kind of ultra-conservative freak, but I would rather tell my kid this stuff when I think that they are old enough. I see a place for sex ed in school, and I think that it is a good program to have, but I also think that the sex ed you and Mike are pushing is going to far. As I said, I think that alot of those things are thigns that the parent's should decide when to tell their kids.

[Enforcer Talen]

-checks wong's list- yep. was taught that junior yr.

[HemlockGrey]

You've never tried? Come on, who hasn't wanted to try that?

...uh, me, for one...

[Montcalm]

Snip

I see a future jusy like in Demolition Man.

[Illuminatus Primus]

I am talking about real sex ed too. Sure, abstienence was pushed and was given off as the only 100% effective birth control (of which if clinically is...), but, everything else was told as well.

How do you know about "everything else?" Have you performed independent sex-ed research to confirm that there's nothing out there about sex that you don't already know?

I have, and I am in High School, AND I am not a virgin. I know they've fucked it up.

[Darth Wong]

And I still think that by blaming it solely on the Christian right is going too far.

Why? Christianity and sex have never gotten along. Everyone knows this.

Sure, the Christian right has a place in it, but so does the aforementioned 'soccer mom' group.

Read Knife's post. He put it quite well; soccer moms are manipulated by fear-mongering. The left-wing manipulates them into believing that without extra "sensitivity", their kids will grow up to be monsters. The right-wing manipulates them into believing that if they are "exposed to sex too early", their kids will start sleeping around like crazy and grow up to be prostitutes. FEAR-MONGERING.

What would you think if your sixth grader came home and said that he learned what to do and what not to do in the porn he watches?

Thank you for proving the point, and also for distorting sex ed into "let's show them porn and let the porn do the talking", thus further proving the point. Christians are hung up about sex, and immediately revert to fear-mongering mode when confronted with it. From what you describe of your own sex ed, it was clearly based on the "tell them just enough to scare them" model, and you are completely happy with that. Would I be surprised to learn that you're Christian?

I mean, call me some kind of ultra-conservative freak, but I would rather tell my kid this stuff when I think that they are old enough. I see a place for sex ed in school, and I think that it is a good program to have, but I also think that the sex ed you and Mike are pushing is going to far.

Of course you do. You believe ignorance is the best solution to sex issues. Your own program, based on your own description, told you JUST ENOUGH to scare you off all of the "undesirable" activities. And that's precisely the way you think it should be done; ignorance and fear.

As I said, I think that alot of those things are thigns that the parent's should decide when to tell their kids.

Ah yes, abdicate a crucial field of education to the parents, despite a widespread societal pattern of parents doing a shitty job in that department.

Can't you see how you've contradicted yourself, by standing up for freedom of information where the left wing's bogeymen are concerned, and completely reversing your position where the right wing's bogeymen are concerned? The whole point is textbook censorship, and you are demonstrating the problem with your own arguments: "kill the other side's sacred cows but leave mine alone".

Take a whole bunch of right-wingers with your attitude, and a whole bunch of left-wingers with the same attitude, put them together, and THAT IS PRECISELY HOW WE GOT INTO THIS TEXTBOOK CENSORSHIP MESS IN THE FIRST PLACE.

[HemlockGrey]

Precisely as I suspected from a sex-ed program which, to repeat the point, has been NEUTERED BY THE CHRISTIAN RIGHT.

No pun intended?

[Bug-Eyed Earl]

Snip

I see a future jusy like in Demolition Man.

Have a joy-joy day!

[Edi]

What would you think if your sixth grader came home and said that he learned what to do and what not to do in the porn he watches? I mean, call me some kind of ultra-conservative freak, but I would rather tell my kid this stuff when I think that they are old enough. I see a place for sex ed in school, and I think that it is a good program to have, but I also think that the sex ed you and Mike are pushing is going to far. As I said, I think that alot of those things are thigns that the parent's should decide when to tell their kids.

In addition to what Mike said, how about you not take things out of context? 6th graders are rather young, at 11 and 12 years of age, typically, and I'm not advocating having them watch porn, and certainly not in sex-ed class. Some of them will, of course, because of the thrill of the forbidden, but I was referring more to the 7th and 8th grade crowd, because that's when they usually start experimenting. Leaving it solely up for the parents is just stupid, many of them won't do anything, because they think ignorance will prevent their kids from doing anything, when the exact opposite is true. They'll try it anyway, but with knowledge there will be less risks involved.

I'm hardly pushing too far, the quality of sex education that I got in school was absolutely shitty, and it did not have that fear-mongering element in it. They just didn't have anything more than superficial information. STDs were brought up and how to take precautions against them, and there was a half-hearted attempt at addressing the emotional issues, but the overall quality was very low. You seem to be happy with shitty sex-ed, but I sure as hell am not.

Edi

[Gandalf]

I see a future jusy like in Demolition Man.

Oh shit.

[Darth Wong]

I see a future jusy like in Demolition Man.

The police officers will look like Sandra Bullock wearing tight pants?

[Peregrin Toker]

I see a future jusy like in Demolition Man.

The police officers will look like Sandra Bullock wearing tight pants?

That would be the only redeeming factor about society.

[Darth Gojira]

I see a future jusy like in Demolition Man.

The police officers will look like Sandra Bullock wearing tight pants?

That would be the only redeeming factor about society.

That's enough for me!

[MKSheppard]

I have a much better solution than the Wong solution.

Give me a videotape of some of the worst VDs known to man,
plus blow up shots of penises and cunts rotted half away by VD
and I'll assure you that I can make a class of 20 kids scared shitless
and not fuck around like rabbits after my little show n tell of the nice
things you can get if you do fuck like rabbits

[Crayz9000]

the actual procedure for employing the rhythm method

Didn't really get into that one, seeing as how it is somewhat unreliable, or so I was told.

If properly used, it is quite reliable. You were told just enough to scare you off, precisely as I expected. So much for your claim that they taught you everything you need to know about sex.

The rhythm method. like all other methods, isn't completely perfect because not all women have regular periods. The best way to do it is to combine it with the cervical mucus method; that way it'll almost always be right on.

It still won't stop diseases, though.

[MKSheppard]

It still won't stop diseases, though.

There's a surefire 100% method to prevent unwanted pregnancies and
VD, and that's NOT TO FUCKING STICK IT IN.

But that would mean you'd have to have self control and responsibility,
and those are lost causes these days Everyone would rather
just fuck like rabbits.

[MKSheppard]

And can someone please give me a good reason why in order to have
a real relationship with someone, we must fuck each other like rabbits?

I'd like to fucking shoot the damn idiot who came up with that
brilliant brainflash that you HAVE to have sex to have a real relationship.

[HemlockGrey]

Shep's just jealous because he can't get any.

[MKSheppard]

Shep's just jealous because he can't get any.

OK sure, let me know when you're working 12 hours on a garbage truck
to pay for your kids diapers.