US electoral system

[GrandMasterTerwynn]

See above poll

Leave the electoral college alone. As others have pointed out, without it, essentially the only people who would matter in choosing the president would be those living in the big cities of California, Texas, and New York and the New England states.

[Alyeska]

See above poll

Leave the electoral college alone. As others have pointed out, without it, essentially the only people who would matter in choosing the president would be those living in the big cities of California, Texas, and New York and the New England states.

You mean just like it already is?

I get tired of this argument. The 3 vote states are already useless and the canadites spend little effort trying to campaign in them.

[Beowulf]

See above poll

Leave the electoral college alone. As others have pointed out, without it, essentially the only people who would matter in choosing the president would be those living in the big cities of California, Texas, and New York and the New England states.

You mean just like it already is?

I get tired of this argument. The 3 vote states are already useless and the canadites spend little effort trying to campaign in them.

They would spend even less if there wasn't the electoral college. Montana has a population that's less than the SF Bay Area. So where does a canidate campaign. Places where there's a lot of people. Direct elections would simply increase vote fraud, and make small states even less relevant.

[Alyeska]

Leave the electoral college alone. As others have pointed out, without it, essentially the only people who would matter in choosing the president would be those living in the big cities of California, Texas, and New York and the New England states.

You mean just like it already is?

I get tired of this argument. The 3 vote states are already useless and the canadites spend little effort trying to campaign in them.

They would spend even less if there wasn't the electoral college. Montana has a population that's less than the SF Bay Area. So where does a canidate campaign. Places where there's a lot of people. Direct elections would simply increase vote fraud, and make small states even less relevant.

Lets see. I can have my vote not count and have the president not campaign here (Electoral system) or I can have my vote count and the president not campaign here (majority vote).

Gee, which one do I like?

The 3 vote states are already treated like shit and its kinda hard to get any worse. I would rather my vote actualy have some significance rather then just being swept asside.

[Beowulf]

You can have your vote kinda count (Electoral College) or you could have your vote swamped with a lot of vote fraud, and kinda count (Strict Majority). Oh, and let's not get into the problems with how statistically significant a .5% majority is (or isn't really)

[Alyeska]

You can have your vote kinda count (Electoral College) or you could have your vote swamped with a lot of vote fraud, and kinda count (Strict Majority). Oh, and let's not get into the problems with how statistically significant a .5% majority is (or isn't really)

I still don't see why people harp on the voter fraud issue. Keep working the votes like they are now only count them all towards majority vote. If I hear another claim about voter fraud then I will merely point out the electoral system is already fucked because it has the same voting method

[Beowulf]

You can have your vote kinda count (Electoral College) or you could have your vote swamped with a lot of vote fraud, and kinda count (Strict Majority). Oh, and let's not get into the problems with how statistically significant a .5% majority is (or isn't really)

I still don't see why people harp on the voter fraud issue. Keep working the votes like they are now only count them all towards majority vote. If I hear another claim about voter fraud then I will merely point out the electoral system is already fucked because it has the same voting method

Well... there's also the fact that vote counts aren't typically exact, for reasons similar to why they had god knows how many recounts in Florida.

[Joe]

Lets see. I can have my vote not count and have the president not campaign here (Electoral system) or I can have my vote count and the president not campaign here (majority vote).

False dichotomy. Despite what you say, a candidate must make an attempt to appeal to at least some of the smaller states in order to win an election. He may not do this by physically campaigning within these states, but he still must broaden his appeal in order to capture votes from these states. Case in pont; Al Gore, in the 2000 election, failed to appeal to any of the smaller states in the Mountain West region and lost the election (had we won one of these states, the election would have been his). The fact is, the Electoral College grants some significance to the concerns of the smaller states; a direct popular vote would grant none.

I still don't see why people harp on the voter fraud issue. Keep working the votes like they are now only count them all towards majority vote. If I hear another claim about voter fraud then I will merely point out the electoral system is already fucked because it has the same voting method

We harp on the voting fraud issue primarily because the opposition claims a direct popular election would make the voice of the people supreme while essentially ignoring all the problems, specifically with vote fraud, that it would bring into the equation, actually silencing the true voice of the people in some cases.

Yes, the EC has the same voting method, but as I said, the electoral college removes the incentive of the majority party to fradulently inflate vote majorities for its candidate. While vote fraud is inevitable, the electoral college at least can partially limit it.

[White Cat]

I do think we should keep the electoral system as a way to somewhat protect the less populous states but I think a proportional electoral system within each state would better represent people.

Protect? I live in Montana. How the fuck am I protected when my vote didn't even count towards the presidential election? I voted for Nader yet the state fucking gave all of its electoral votes to Bush. That is not protecting me, that is hurting my voice.

(emphasis mine)

Since no one else covered this, I'll attempt to. You raise a valid point that all the votes for the "loser" in the EC system are essentially worthless. However, the same thing happens in a direct vote, only on a much wider scale.

If Candidate Smith gets 51% of the vote in a direct election, and Candidate Jones gets 49%, then all of the votes for Jones are still "worthless". If every single one of Jones' supporters had stayed home, the end result would have been exactly the same.

As for your example, in a direct election, Nader's 2% (or whatever it was) of the vote would still have resulted in a loss, and so your vote would be just as "worthless" as it was under the Electoral College.

[Pu-239]

Do you even understand when he says ever vote counted states wouldn't have any unfair advantage You just count up all the fucking votes for example (hypothetical) 18,000,000 Californians voted for Gore you add that up with all the other states votes for Gore as a popular vote really all that matters is that every vote is counted there is no unfair advantage except in an electoral college which then allows for a president to win even though the popular vote said other wise. All you do is count ever vote that went to the person in the Country and the person with the most votes win. I still don't see how this would give a state a unfair advatage.

I've never seen such run-on sentances!

The problem is that you're considering each state merely an administrative district of the US, when they're really equal partners of a union. If in a popular system certain high-population states can swamp low-population states, the partners become unequal in the election of POTUS. The politics of those high-population states thus become ascendant over those of the low-population states.

Doesn't it already favor larger states, since they get more electors? If you want to protect state's rights, just give each state 2 votes, like the Senate.

[Perinquus]

Doesn't it already favor larger states, since they get more electors? If you want to protect state's rights, just give each state 2 votes, like the Senate.

You don't want to swing to the opposite extreme either, and give the small states too much influence. The electoral college system exists for the same reason we have a bicameral legislature, with representation apportioned differently in each house. It is an attempt to protect the smaller states from being completely dominated by the larger ones, and having essentially no real influence on national events and policies, and at the same time reflect the reality that the larger states are more important economically, and their interests cannot be held hostage by the smaller states.