SUVs take hit in pol's pitch

Arthur_Tuxedo · Post by **Arthur_Tuxedo** » 2003-10-16 10:51am

theski wrote:No ..its a right for me to choose what I want to drive.. and you are going to tell me how to spend my money??

again its just about personal choice...

By that "logic", Bill Gates should be able to have his own ICBM silo. What, are you going to tell him how to spend his own damn money?

theski · Post by **theski** » 2003-10-16 10:53am

Vympel wrote:

Which right would that be, exactly? Is it in the Constitution or what?

You want to show me where, I don't get to choose what I want to drive..
Other than safety issues... The customer determines what to spend his or her money on..

Vympel wrote:

You're told how to spend your money everytime the government restricts/regulates certain goods and services for various reasons- like the case here, where these ridiculous vehicles are quite reasonably removed from an area where there is no legitimate use for them. This is not new.

If the Gov regulates them its one thing.. but whining about line of sight and fuel usage is not going to stop anyone from buying a SUV.. I traded my Explorer in For a Golf GTI because it now was a better fit for my lifestyle, but if I want to buy another SUV what gives you the right to tell me different..

Post by **Vympel** » 2003-10-16 11:13am

theski wrote:
You want to show me where, I don't get to choose what I want to drive..

Legislation.

Other than safety issues... The customer determines what to spend his or her money on..

No, what they can and cannot buy is limited by legislation- there is no specific 'safety issue' caveat, and SUVs can certainly come under such a caveat if it even existed.

If the Gov regulates them its one thing.. but whining about line of sight and fuel usage is not going to stop anyone from buying a SUV..

It can. One can simply legislate such restrictions. There are standards to which vehicles must comply, and the categories in which these stupid arse vehicles fit in are not some sort of inalienable human right to purchase.

I traded my Explorer in For a Golf GTI because it now was a better fit for my lifestyle, but if I want to buy another SUV what gives you the right to tell me different..

Legislation. This has nothing to do with rights whatsoever. If the representatives of the electorate feel that this is a legitimate concern, they are well within their *powers* to regulate them.

theski · Post by **theski** » 2003-10-16 11:23am

Vympel... Thats a lot of Legislation....

Other than safety issues, the GOV has no biz telling me what to drive. Nore does anyone else...

They can make changes to how SUVs look or the engines or but the final choice to buy a Econ box or Suv is the consumers not the GOv

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-10-16 11:27am

theski wrote:Vympel... Thats a lot of Legislation....

Other than safety issues, the GOV has no biz telling me what to drive. Nore does anyone else...

Wrong. Any car which is going to use public roads must conform to a huge raft of rules. I used to work in the fucking auto industry; there are more laws governing cars than you can believe, and you are obviously talking out of your ass.

They can make changes to how SUVs look or the engines or but the final choice to buy a Econ box or Suv is the consumers not the GOv

The final choice to whether you can drive it on any public road you choose is up to the government, not the consumer.

Nothing more obnoxious than a right-winger who thinks that everything is a "right".

Post by **Colonel Olrik** » 2003-10-16 11:29am

theski wrote: They can make changes to how SUVs look or the engines or but the final choice to buy a Econ box or Suv is the consumers not the GOv

That's why the gov must tax you into submission. Not on buying the car, because many people do use Jeeps in a proper manner, but on road usage. That's why SUV's pay the double in highways, etc. If you want to be a nuisance to others in a tiny city street, you'd better pay more for the inconvenience.

theski · Post by **theski** » 2003-10-16 11:35am

Wong Wrote:

The final choice to whether you can drive it on any public road you choose is up to the government, not the consumer.

Nothing more obnoxious than a right-winger who thinks that everything is a "right

If you read my post.. again.. I said.. BUY... Not Drive...

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2003-10-16 11:48am

theski wrote:If you read my post.. again.. I said.. BUY... Not Drive...

You're pretty stupid, it seems. The government has every right to determine what you buy(Drugs, weaponry..). This is just the retarded bleating of 'individual over society!'.

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2003-10-16 11:48am

The final choice to whether you can drive it on any public road you choose is up to the government, not the consumer.

Which in turn brings us back to the idea that it is up to the consumer cause we're the constituents.

Seriously, I wouldn't be too upset for regulations against the Ford Humongous and shit like that but I hesitate at a blanket statment like 'SUV's should be banned'.

I do think you're on the right track with weight as an identifier though. Give the car companies a weight standard that they can't go above or modify the exsisting one's.

By the way, I own a GMC Jimmy because of the mix of cargo capacity (if my kids are cargo) and all weather/off road abilities. Not everyone lives in a nice city with thousands of snowplow's.

Dahak · Post by **Dahak** » 2003-10-16 12:09pm

The largest cars around here are usually S-class mercedes or BMW 7's. I'm not sure if you could even *drive* things like those mountains around here...
And you damn well have won the lottery in order to pay for it. THe taxes, insurance, let alone the fuel...
I don't know how much they consume, but to afford anything that consumes more than like 15-20 litres per kilometer (and there are not many who do...) is IMHO nearly unaffordable for normal people here.

Peregrin Toker · Post by **Peregrin Toker** » 2003-10-16 02:26pm

Arthur_Tuxedo wrote:
theski wrote:Since Mike brought this up earlier...

I think it is a fundamental right to be able buy and drive whatever kind of car/truck/Suv you want. Its my money.. IMHO
So you should be able to drive to work in a tank?

Actually, in Germany there's a guy named Frölich who has legally registered an old military tank as a car and drives it every day - at least according to a Danish car magazine.

Post by **AdmiralKanos** » 2003-10-16 06:10pm

theski wrote:Wong Wrote:
The final choice to whether you can drive it on any public road you choose is up to the government, not the consumer.

Nothing more obnoxious than a right-winger who thinks that everything is a "right
If you read my post.. again.. I said.. BUY... Not Drive...

And if you read the original post, the restrictions is on DRIVING, not BUYING. If you want to buy the Ford Extremous so you can keep it in your backyard, that's fine by me.

Post by **AdmiralKanos** » 2003-10-16 06:12pm

Knife wrote:Which in turn brings us back to the idea that it is up to the consumer cause we're the constituents.

Seriously, I wouldn't be too upset for regulations against the Ford Humongous and shit like that but I hesitate at a blanket statment like 'SUV's should be banned'.

Why is everyone ignoring the original post's exclusive focus on so-called "monster SUVs", and acting as though people plan to ban everything that looks vaguely SUV-ish?

The Kernel · Post by **The Kernel** » 2003-10-16 07:48pm

AdmiralKanos wrote: Why is everyone ignoring the original post's exclusive focus on so-called "monster SUVs", and acting as though people plan to ban everything that looks vaguely SUV-ish?

Because SUV's like the Suburban and Excursion and based off of truck platforms and are roughly the same size (although heavier) then an extended bed, full size pickup with a camper shell. If you ban the Suburban and Excursion, then you have to ban the Silverado 1500/2500 and the Ford F-250/350 HD as well.

If you ask me, this is pure publicity; people drove large trucks before SUV's became chic, and a ban on them is simple prejudice against the people who buy them rather than the truck itself.

I don't really care for SUV drivers that own a huge truck for solo commuting, but I'm not about to relegate them to truck roads when pickups that are essentially THE EXACT SAME THING are allowed free access to the roads.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2003-10-16 08:33pm

I'm still waiting for you to support your assertation that small cars are especially dangerous, Marina.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-10-16 08:37pm

Kind of obvious. The less metal you have surrounding you in a wreck, the less safe you are. Smaller, more fuel-efficient cars tend to be lighter.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2003-10-16 08:43pm

An overbuilt, rigid vehicle is actually worse in a crash, as the deformation of the body does not absorb some crash energies.

Try again.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-10-16 08:58pm

Crashtest.com actually has medium-large cars coming out quite a bit better overall than smaller cars.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2003-10-16 08:59pm

Durran Korr wrote:Crashtest.com actually has medium-large cars coming out quite a bit better overall than smaller cars.

I'd hardly say 'Medium-large being 'a bit better' than small cars' equals 'Small cars are deathtraps'. But that's just me. I'm one of those crazies who thinks you should get a pickup truck if you need hauling room. If you need to be a whiney bitch and get something for style, get one of those hybrid Diablo-Pickups Tevar and I saw.

PROMETHEUS · Post by **PROMETHEUS** » 2003-10-16 09:48pm

Look, I drive a 1991 Chevy Suburban.

Now before every eco-freak on the board mobs me, the only reason I'm commuting to college in it (NOT by myself I might mention, I'm also hauling my mother--who decided to resume college--and her boatload of, uh, survival gear I assume) is because our station wagon is currently awaiting repairs.

Once we repair the station wagon (an '83 V6-powered Chevy Malibu) that'll become the cargo hauler again, and the Suburban will be relegated to what we bought it for: long, cross-country hauls where it might be necessary to carry a bunch of stuff AND sleep in it.

Yeah. That's right. Try sleeping in the back of a pickup truck with camper shell, when it's raining, and the camper shell's windows are letting half the rain in. And don't forget that you have to contend with the nice uneven cargo bed (air mattresses help, yes, but they take a while to setup).

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2003-10-16 09:52pm

You assume that bed covers all leak, which is not the case. You can also stick a sheet of plywood in the bed of a pickup, which takes care of the unevenness. To fight the hardness, you can always spend all of five minutes blowing up aforementioned air mattress.

You aren't too bad, though.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-10-16 10:23pm

Simon H.Johansen wrote:
Actually, in Germany there's a guy named Frölich who has legally registered an old military tank as a car and drives it every day - at least according to a Danish car magazine.

There are quite a few people like who do that in Germany, the US, France and the UK. A very large number of tracked armored vehicles are street legal, most if not all remotely recent designs use rubber pads on their tracks, so they don't tear up roads as earlier ones did.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2003-10-16 10:29pm

Vympel wrote: So is it a fundamental right to cause damage to the environment cause inconvenience to other road users etc ad infinitum all the problems with SUVs because you spent good money on it?

Damn right! If it's road legal, I can buy it and fuck the hippies.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2003-10-16 10:33pm

Seriously, I consider public transportation buses a more serious danger to
the environment than gasoline powered SUVs - they spew large amounts of
crap into the air from their exhaust pipes each time they start up from a dead
stop, which they do a LOT, and of couse, each time they stop, they literally
tie off an entire lane. Frustrating as fuck, especially when they break down.

Hamel · Post by **Hamel** » 2003-10-16 10:35pm

PROMETHEUS wrote:Look, I drive a 1991 Chevy Suburban.

Now before every eco-freak on the board mobs me,

So, wanting drivers to use reason makes people eco freaks?