Durandal wrote:Even if Edwards was totallynew to foreign policy, he's just the VP. The president of the current administration had no foreign policy experience to speak of when he took office.
That's not a bother, FDR had no foreign policy experience either and I'd say that worked out pretty well.
Are you suggesting that the decision to go to war in 1941 indicated some kind of foreign policy acumen on the part of FDR, rather than being the only conceivable choice?
GWB's problem is precisely that he thinks he's FDR, and he's damned well going to approach the problem the way FDR did, by simply declaring war on it and launching invasion fleets. it was a good idea for FDR, but that doesn't mean it's a good idea here.
"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing
"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC
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On the plus side, Edwards is going to eat Cheney alive in the Vice Presidential debate. Young, handsome, articulate, you can actually understand him... compared to Dick Cheney. Not that that will have much of an effect on the election, but at least he's charismatic. Now if some of that charisma rub off a little bit on Kerry, we'd be set.
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Are you suggesting that the decision to go to war in 1941 indicated some kind of foreign policy acumen on the part of FDR, rather than being the only conceivable choice?
Not the decision to go to war, the decision to do things to help the war effort before we actually joined it was the clever stuff.
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Gil Hamilton wrote:On the plus side, Edwards is going to eat Cheney alive in the Vice Presidential debate. Young, handsome, articulate, you can actually understand him... compared to Dick Cheney. Not that that will have much of an effect on the election, but at least he's charismatic. Now if some of that charisma rub off a little bit on Kerry, we'd be set.
Sure you can understand Dick Cheney, didn't you see him in the 2000 VP debate? He handled himself very well, but Edwards will probably be the popular winner, since these debates are largely style-over-substance affairs regardless of how good either candidate is.
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I'm studying for the CPA exam. Have a nice summer, and if you're down just sit back and realize that Joe is off somewhere, doing much worse than you are.
Are you suggesting that the decision to go to war in 1941 indicated some kind of foreign policy acumen on the part of FDR, rather than being the only conceivable choice?
Not the decision to go to war, the decision to do things to help the war effort before we actually joined it was the clever stuff.
Clever in the sense of "how do I get around Congress", not clever in the sense of "how do I take a nuanced approach to a delicate foreign-policy situation so that I can protect my national interests without causing unnecessary death and destruction or unnecessarily interfering in the affairs of other nations".
"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing
"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC
"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness
"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.
Joe wrote:Sure you can understand Dick Cheney, didn't you see him in the 2000 VP debate? He handled himself very well, but Edwards will probably be the popular winner, since these debates are largely style-over-substance affairs regardless of how good either candidate is.
I'm a better public speaker than Dick Cheney, and that says something. He sounds like someone reading a teleprompter and kind of bored with it. That makes his message less understandable than with an extemporaneous deliver. I grant that he doesn't have the rampant speaking errors that President Bush has, but he's not all that great a speaker.
"Show me an angel and I will paint you one." - Gustav Courbet
"Quetzalcoatl, plumed serpent of the Aztecs... you are a pussy." - Stephen Colbert
"Really, I'm jealous of how much smarter than me he is. I'm not an expert on anything and he's an expert on things he knows nothing about." - Me, concerning a bullshitter
Gil Hamilton wrote:On the plus side, Edwards is going to eat Cheney alive in the Vice Presidential debate. Young, handsome, articulate, you can actually understand him... compared to Dick Cheney. Not that that will have much of an effect on the election, but at least he's charismatic. Now if some of that charisma rub off a little bit on Kerry, we'd be set.
Sure you can understand Dick Cheney, didn't you see him in the 2000 VP debate? He handled himself very well, but Edwards will probably be the popular winner, since these debates are largely style-over-substance affairs regardless of how good either candidate is.
Cheney has that smug, conceited, "I know everything" tone of voice that just grates me every time I hear it. Edwards is a personal injury trial lawyer. Say what you will about being a scum-bag, but the guy knows how to pitch an idea and how to construct and communicate an argument effectively. He will almost certainly destroy Cheney in the debates.
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This too, on top of his teleprompter speech most of the time. As covered in any oral communications course, being understandable is more then simply pronouncing every word correctly. People don't actually listen to everything that hits their ears. Teleprompter speech or annoying speaking qualities, both of which Dick Cheney has, means that a person probably isn't listening to him as attentively as a good orator, thus they aren't digesting what he's saying and not understanding him as well.
Edwards is a much better speaker and communicates much more effectively. That means he's far more understandable and likely why he will eat Cheney for lunch in any face off.
"Show me an angel and I will paint you one." - Gustav Courbet
"Quetzalcoatl, plumed serpent of the Aztecs... you are a pussy." - Stephen Colbert
"Really, I'm jealous of how much smarter than me he is. I'm not an expert on anything and he's an expert on things he knows nothing about." - Me, concerning a bullshitter
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Durandal wrote:Cheney has that smug, conceited, "I know everything" tone of voice that just grates me every time I hear it.
I thought I was the only one who felt that way about Cheney.
I just can't even look at him without getting pissed off, let alone listen to him speak. He just always has this ass hole shit-eating grin on his face when he speaks. Like he is just thinking to himself how bad ass he is. At least I can laugh at Bush's public speaking fuck ups (check sig ), I just look at Cheney and he makes my fucking blood boil.
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When I look at Cheney I don't get the "I know everything" impression from him. I get more of a "I have connections and you don't, so I don't really give a fuck what you think and I'm only humouring your pathetic belief that little people like you matter" impression.
"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing
"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC
"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness
"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.
What I find a little offensive personally for obvious reasons is the sudden rising shrill attacks against Edwards because he's a trial lawyer. The commentators on Fox have been hurling that one with a special vehemence almost as if they were saying "Edwards is a communist." *cue dramatically dark music*
So what? Weren't the mjority of Founding Fathers lawyers for fuck's sake? You attack him based on his career choices can we then lambast the fact that Bush can't find oil in Texas and has run every company he has ever headed into the fucking ground. I'll take a succesful lawyer over a fucking business man any day of the week.
Particulalry business men with ties to the goivernment who produced the largest number of 9/11 hijackers and Al-Qaeda members and sends us to war over phantom WMD's.
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Durandal wrote:But Kerry is a pessimist! Bush is an optimist! We need our president to think happy thoughts!
Well, yeah. Didn't Bill Clinton prove that?
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I'm studying for the CPA exam. Have a nice summer, and if you're down just sit back and realize that Joe is off somewhere, doing much worse than you are.
Darth Wong wrote:When I look at Cheney I don't get the "I know everything" impression from him. I get more of a "I have connections and you don't, so I don't really give a fuck what you think and I'm only humouring your pathetic belief that little people like you matter" impression.
I think we can all agree that if conspiracy nuts are right and there really is a secret council of men that run the world, Dick Cheney would be on it.
Stravo wrote:What I find a little offensive personally for obvious reasons is the sudden rising shrill attacks against Edwards because he's a trial lawyer. The commentators on Fox have been hurling that one with a special vehemence almost as if they were saying "Edwards is a communist." *cue dramatically dark music*
So what? Weren't the mjority of Founding Fathers lawyers for fuck's sake? You attack him based on his career choices can we then lambast the fact that Bush can't find oil in Texas and has run every company he has ever headed into the fucking ground. I'll take a succesful lawyer over a fucking business man any day of the week.
Actually, there was a pretty even mix of lawyers and businessmen in the FFs. However, personal injusry/lawsuit lawyers are very different from 18th century colonial lawyers.
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CaptainChewbacca wrote:Actually, there was a pretty even mix of lawyers and businessmen in the FFs. However, personal injusry/lawsuit lawyers are very different from 18th century colonial lawyers.
Modern businessmen are probably quite different from 18th century businessmen as well.
"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing
"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC
"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness
"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.
CaptainChewbacca wrote:Actually, there was a pretty even mix of lawyers and businessmen in the FFs. However, personal injusry/lawsuit lawyers are very different from 18th century colonial lawyers.
Modern businessmen are probably quite different from 18th century businessmen as well.
Devolution is quite as natural as evolution, and may be just as pleasing, or even a good deal more pleasing, to God. If the average man is made in God's image, then a man such as Beethoven or Aristotle is plainly superior to God, and so God may be jealous of him, and eager to see his superiority perish with his bodily frame.
I dont think being a lawyer makes Edwards a 'scumbag'. So he took some doctors (who left peices of EKG equipment in people's stomachs*) to the cleaners, so? Sometimes, people need to be reminded they arent above the law.
I like him. Actually, i kinda like him better than Kerry. I dont know why, but he seems more 'upfront' to me. Go figure.
*I was exagerating the extend of some malpractice suits, of course, but in truth many doctors who get sued diserve it, IMHO. If you drop the ball, weather it's an accident or not, you should have to pay the consiqunces.
Darth Wong wrote:
Clever in the sense of "how do I get around Congress", not clever in the sense of "how do I take a nuanced approach to a delicate foreign-policy situation so that I can protect my national interests without causing unnecessary death and destruction or unnecessarily interfering in the affairs of other nations".
Bull, FDR's Cash-Carry and Lend-Lease programs were brilliant foreign policy moves that allowed the British to more effectively combat the Nazi threat until FDR could rally American support for the war. It wasn't Congress he was fighting so much as the will of the American people and their feeling of isolationism from the affairs of Europe. FDR saw that America had a vested interest in containing the Axis powers, but he was unable to declare open war until we were attacked and his programs of support without budging from an officially neutral state were important factors in keeping the British in as good shape as they were prior to the United States entering the war.
Durandal wrote:But Kerry is a pessimist! Bush is an optimist! We need our president to think happy thoughts!
Well, yeah. Didn't Bill Clinton prove that?
Don't be silly. Clinton proved the proper way to national prosperity is through playing the sax, getting blowjobs, and flinging cruise missiles like darts.
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18-Till-I-Die wrote:I dont think being a lawyer makes Edwards a 'scumbag'. So he took some doctors (who left peices of EKG equipment in people's stomachs*) to the cleaners, so? Sometimes, people need to be reminded they arent above the law.
I like him. Actually, i kinda like him better than Kerry. I dont know why, but he seems more 'upfront' to me. Go figure.
*I was exagerating the extend of some malpractice suits, of course, but in truth many doctors who get sued diserve it, IMHO. If you drop the ball, weather it's an accident or not, you should have to pay the consiqunces.
Sure, but the sorts of payouts that people get for malpractice are absolutely ridiculous. What's worse is that the standard contract with lawyers usually means that the lawyer will get between one third and one half of the total judgement. Think about that. A family is devastated by a medical accident that kills someone, and the LAWYER makes off with half of what they earn!
What particularly irks me is that the lawyer has to specifically demonstrate WHY that money is necessary for the family. Then he takes half of it! This doesn't make personal injury lawyers scumbags?
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18-Till-I-Die wrote:I dont think being a lawyer makes Edwards a 'scumbag'. So he took some doctors (who left peices of EKG equipment in people's stomachs*) to the cleaners, so? Sometimes, people need to be reminded they arent above the law.
I like him. Actually, i kinda like him better than Kerry. I dont know why, but he seems more 'upfront' to me. Go figure.
*I was exagerating the extend of some malpractice suits, of course, but in truth many doctors who get sued diserve it, IMHO. If you drop the ball, weather it's an accident or not, you should have to pay the consiqunces.
Sure, but the sorts of payouts that people get for malpractice are absolutely ridiculous. What's worse is that the standard contract with lawyers usually means that the lawyer will get between one third and one half of the total judgement. Think about that. A family is devastated by a medical accident that kills someone, and the LAWYER makes off with half of what they earn!
What particularly irks me is that the lawyer has to specifically demonstrate WHY that money is necessary for the family. Then he takes half of it! This doesn't make personal injury lawyers scumbags?
Well i have to ask: is there any evidence Edwards has done this? If not, then HE isnt a scumbag. Also, while it is prety shity, the fack remains they still get some restitution for the families. Scumbags? Maybe, maybe not. Unfair, yes certainly, but i'm not defending that mind you. I'm saying i dont think Edwards counts as a scumbag, in fact i'm prety sure he doesnt. I dont know, but he seems like a nice guy in public. Who knows, he might be some insane frothing leather freak at home...
), I just look at Cheney and he makes my fucking blood boil.
