Arnie May Run For Oval Office In 08

Iceberg · Post by **Iceberg** » 2004-09-17 04:38pm

Master of Ossus wrote:
Imperial Overlord wrote:Obama was born in the US. His father is the immigrant.
Really? I thought he was born in Africa before immigrating.

Barack Obama was born in Hawaii in 1961.

Axis Kast · Post by **Axis Kast** » 2004-09-17 04:51pm

The prohibition on the election of foreign citizens was put in place at a time when most American generals were on the payrolls of European courts and when most Americans still had trouble viewing themselves as such.

Batman · Post by **Batman** » 2004-09-17 05:24pm

Axis Kast wrote:The prohibition on the election of foreign citizens was put in place at a time when most American generals were on the payrolls of European courts and when most Americans still had trouble viewing themselves as such.

IOW, it's not relevant now and hasn't been for two hundred years.
No, I'm not claiming you say it is, but the question of why it should stay in effect remains.

Talon Karrde · Post by **Talon Karrde** » 2004-09-17 06:13pm

Darth_Zod wrote:
Talon Karrde wrote:
Batman wrote: Why? What qualification does a natural born citizen have for the job that an immigrant doesn't?
The Republican party leaders would probably prefer he would not run, mainly because he's very moderate.
that still doesn't answer the question as to what qualifications a natural born citizen has that an immigrant doesn't. arnie's political views are irrelevant to that.

I believe it probably has something to do with making sure that an international agent couldn't infiltrate the position and exploit the US for his past loyalties.

General Zod · Post by **General Zod** » 2004-09-17 06:19pm

Talon Karrde wrote:I believe it probably has something to do with making sure that an international agent couldn't infiltrate the position and exploit the US for his past loyalties.

that may have been valid when the country was first founded, however this is no longer the case as the US is a well established financially and politically. so long as a would-be candidate has lived here a certain number of years and is a citizen (say, 20 minimum) and shows to be devoted to america itself and not outside interests, i see no reason to deny them the right to run for candidacy.

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2004-09-17 10:14pm

Batman wrote:Why? What qualification does a natural born citizen have for the job that an immigrant doesn't?

It's not qualifications. Frankly I think Arnold is more qualified right now than Bush has ever been.

I'm saying it should be a privilege just for being a natural born citizen of America. Just my opinion, nothing more.

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2004-09-17 10:16pm

Darth Wong wrote:Why not let the voters decide that in any given election, by removing the ban? If some feel that way, fine. They can just vote against the guy. But the option is not even presented to them under the current system.

I wouldn't be against putting it up to a vote. I doubt it would pass, but it would be an interesting thing to watch.

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2004-09-17 10:39pm

Iceberg wrote:Barack Obama was born in Hawaii in 1961.

What a cool name, and so easy to place into a political slogan: "I'm barracking for Barrak Obama in '08. What about YOU?"

Guardsman Bass · Post by **Guardsman Bass** » 2004-09-18 01:50am

This is from the Thomas database at http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery

12. S.J.RES.15 : A joint resolution proposing an amendment to the Constitution of the United States to make eligible for the Office of President a person who has been a United States citizen for 20 years.
Sponsor: Sen Hatch, Orrin G. [UT] (introduced 7/10/2003) Cosponsors (None)

I thought so- this is one of Hatch's yearly amendment marathon proposals.

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Butterbean569 · Post by **Butterbean569** » 2004-09-18 12:01pm

Darth Wong wrote:
Lord Poe wrote:While I'd love to see Arnie as President, I think the office should be a privilege held by natural born citizens.
Why not let the voters decide that in any given election, by removing the ban? If some feel that way, fine. They can just vote against the guy. But the option is not even presented to them under the current system.

I was taking this stance in my Pol 101 class a few days ago...but just about everyone was against me. Then again, most of them are very conservative hicks.....

But then again, they're Republican and so is Arnold lol

Butterbean569 · Post by **Butterbean569** » 2004-09-18 12:04pm

Just curious....can foreign born people become presidents/heads of state in some of the other countries out there...? Or is it just a US thing

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2004-09-18 12:09pm

Butterbean569 wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:
Lord Poe wrote:While I'd love to see Arnie as President, I think the office should be a privilege held by natural born citizens.
Why not let the voters decide that in any given election, by removing the ban? If some feel that way, fine. They can just vote against the guy. But the option is not even presented to them under the current system.
I was taking this stance in my Pol 101 class a few days ago...but just about everyone was against me. Then again, most of them are very conservative hicks.....

But then again, they're Republican and so is Arnold lol

Arnolds a republican, but I wouldn't call him conservative. I think "Wired" nailed it: Radical centralism - socially liberal, fiscally conservative. Will put up with political infighting for a while, but if it is unnecessarily stalling things, hammer them (eg his compliment s towards the dems for several months before losing patience and calling them girlie men).

From what I've seen so far, I'd vote for him. Coruse the whole harassment and pot using thing would probably kill him in a presidential election, but I like the general policies so far.

salm · Post by **salm** » 2004-09-18 01:11pm

Butterbean569 wrote:Just curious....can foreign born people become presidents/heads of state in some of the other countries out there...? Or is it just a US thing

every german who is at least 40 years old and has the passive voting right is allowed to become head of state (bundespraesident).
so, yes, foreign born people can become head of state.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2004-09-18 01:53pm

Master of Ossus wrote:Incidentally, the Democrats might also have an up-and-coming presidential candidate who was foreign-born, if you believe Barack Obama could get that far.

Leaving aside Obama, the Democrats are also supposedly overly impressed with Jennifer Granholm. Why the hell they're impressed with that harpie I don't know. Her principle achievments have been to fuck over most of the positive programs that Governor Engler initiated. As far as I know the only qualification she has is naked, blind ambition.

She's Hillary Clinton with better tits.

RedImperator · Post by **RedImperator** » 2004-09-18 06:16pm

Stormbringer wrote:She's Hillary Clinton with better tits.

You've got that right.

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2004-09-18 08:30pm

Butterbean569 wrote:Just curious....can foreign born people become presidents/heads of state in some of the other countries out there...? Or is it just a US thing

The UK has had a Canadian prime minister before but then again about a third of the planet can vote in our elections if they are residents here.

As for head of state, I believe the only condition is that they not be a Catholic or married to a Catholic.

Stuart Mackey · Post by **Stuart Mackey** » 2004-09-19 12:52am

TheDarkling wrote:
Butterbean569 wrote:Just curious....can foreign born people become presidents/heads of state in some of the other countries out there...? Or is it just a US thing
The UK has had a Canadian prime minister before but then again about a third of the planet can vote in our elections if they are residents here.

As for head of state, I believe the only condition is that they not be a Catholic or married to a Catholic.

Ahem..Monarchy.

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2004-09-19 07:34am

Stuart Mackey wrote: Ahem..Monarchy.

So?

Parliament can appoint whoever they like, as long as they aren't a catholic (or married to one) and even then they could reverse that although it would create complications.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2004-09-19 03:20pm

RedImperator wrote:
Stormbringer wrote:She's Hillary Clinton with better tits.
You've got that right.

Tulip Time

Oh, she's attractive enough. One reason I suppose she's a fresh face. But frankly that's the only positive thing I can think of about her. She's a shitty governor, period.

Stuart Mackey · Post by **Stuart Mackey** » 2004-09-20 02:18am

TheDarkling wrote:
Stuart Mackey wrote: Ahem..Monarchy.
So?

Parliament can appoint whoever they like, as long as they aren't a catholic (or married to one) and even then they could reverse that although it would create complications.

By what statute can parliment, or rather Commons and Lords, appoint whom they please? nor has parliment ever done that in modern history. In each instance when there has been doubt over the succession the nearest reletive, male or female and Protestant, has been asked to the throne.
However my point being that in a monarchy the head of state is by definition herditary

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2004-09-20 03:05am

Stuart Mackey wrote: By what statute can parliment, or rather Commons and Lords, appoint whom they please? nor has parliment ever done that in modern history.

The Act of Settlement 1701.

It was this which led to the formation of the UK as the Scottish Parliament was making noises about choosing their own monarch.
Which necessitated taking away that parliament from them (or more accurately, bribing them to voluntarily give up that parliament).

Parliament has done this in modern times with Edward VIII since it isn't technically possible for the Monarch to abdicate of their own will (because they have no say in who is or isn't the monarch as per the Act of Settlement) parliament must actually choose a new monarch (although this has the same effect and the act was titled "His Majesty's Declaration of Abdication Act").

In each instance when there has been doubt over the succession the nearest reletive, male or female and Protestant, has been asked to the throne.

Since when?

This is true post Act of Settlement but before that things were far more complicated.

However my point being that in a monarchy the head of state is by definition herditary

No they aren't, hereditary determinations of the line of succession aren't the only method, methods such as the out going monarchs wishes, who holds the physical crown (as in who has troops on the ground) and so on have all been used as a legitimate method of determining the new monarch.

Currently the British monarchy is hereditary (with the stipulation about Catholics) however that is due to parliament wanting it to be that way and having legislation to that effect. Should they choose to alter the decision making process they are well within their rights to do so.

Elfdart · Post by **Elfdart** » 2004-09-20 01:49pm

RedImperator wrote:
Stormbringer wrote:She's Hillary Clinton with better tits.
You've got that right.

I'm in love!

Elfdart · Post by **Elfdart** » 2004-09-20 01:58pm

Two great photos from Red Imperator! Granholm looks hot and anyone who appreciates Chuck Bednarik knocking Mr. Kathy Lee Gifford's block off is quite a scholar.

When they carted Gifford off the field unconcious, they left him on a stretcher in a room next to guy who had died of a heart attack in the stands. People saw the dead guy (covered with a sheet) and thought Bednarik had killed Gifford.

Years later when Gifford was making an ass of himself on Monday Night Football, the late, great Howard Cosell noticed a vicious hit on the field and said "Frank, that was just like the hit Chuck Bednarik put on you!" Gifford shut the fuck up for once.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2004-09-20 02:15pm

Elfdart wrote:
RedImperator wrote:
Stormbringer wrote:She's Hillary Clinton with better tits.
You've got that right.

I'm in love!

Surrender your balls and I'm sure she'll add you to her man-harem.

Elfdart · Post by **Elfdart** » 2004-09-20 02:27pm

That might be how girlie-men like you pull tough chicks, but my method works better and is less painful.