Legal alternatives to prop 8

[The Yosemite Bear]

No shit them and the minute men need someone to protest them, asking why they don't wear their white sheets and Nazi paraphenelia anymore, since that's whose play book they are working offf of.

[Ender]

Ender, how difficult would it be to chuck DADT?

To do? About 30 minutes worth of work (or however long it takes to draft the order) by Obama and his secretary. Setting policy like that would only take an executive order from the commander in chief, same as with Executive Order 9981. To make it practical and feasible? Not much more - this past summer they had hearings on it where DADT got roundly panned. Military is at the point where they don't really give a shit so long as the person does their job, and feels it is counter productive. Public is 75% in favor of repealing it. Undoing this would not be that great a task.

[RedImperator]

Ender, how difficult would it be to chuck DADT?

To do? About 30 minutes worth of work (or however long it takes to draft the order) by Obama and his secretary. Setting policy like that would only take an executive order from the commander in chief, same as with Executive Order 9981. To make it practical and feasible? Not much more - this past summer they had hearings on it where DADT got roundly panned. Military is at the point where they don't really give a shit so long as the person does their job, and feels it is counter productive. Public is 75% in favor of repealing it. Undoing this would not be that great a task.

It should happen fairly soon. Obama is in favor of it and he'll have a friendly Congress and a high approval rating for the first few months (Congress can't stop him, but a Republican Congress could make a big stink about it). He also wants to overturn DOMA, though I don't know if he'll try that right away with all the other legislation he wants to pass.

[Kodiak]

I haven't found a site yet, but I'm working on it. The sooner we find a list of the miscreants the sooner they can get their just desserts.

Are you talking about boycotting large companies, or terrorizing families?

[Elfdart]

I haven't found a site yet, but I'm working on it. The sooner we find a list of the miscreants the sooner they can get their just desserts.

Are you talking about boycotting large companies, or terrorizing families?

Boycotting and picketing companies.

Terrorizing families? Do you normally do bong hits so early?

[JLTucker]

Here's a list of the Proposition 8 donations. I sorted them by those who support the measure.

[Elfdart]

Here's a list of the Proposition 8 donations. I sorted them by those who support the measure.

GEORGE LUCAS $50,000 NICASIO CA 94946 LUCAS FILMS Oppose

[Elfdart]

Ghetto Edit:

LUCASFILMS $50,000 SAN FRANCISCO CA 94129 N/A Oppose

George coughed up $100 grand to try to stop this horseshit.

[Kodiak]

Boycotting and picketing companies.

Terrorizing families? Do you normally do bong hits so early?

Since some folks in this thread have advocated anything from sterilization of "breeders" to physical violence, I didn't think it was such a ridiculous question.

[Illuminatus Primus]

Good for George Lucas.

[Elfdart]

Good for George Lucas.

Anne Hathaway is now just that much hotter:

ANNE HATHAWAY $10,000 NEW YORK NY 10003 SAME NAME Oppose

Mr & Mrs Spielberg and Brad Pitt also put their money into stopping Prop Hate. Looking through the list is interesting in its own right. Kudos to JLTucker.

Instead of solidarity marches, the gay community in California and its allies should find the business addresses of the bigger donors and picket them. Stop spending money with those companies and get your friends and family to do likewise. Be sure to send letters to the scumbags (polite letters of course) telling them why it'll be a cold day in hell before you buy from them again. Don't get mad -get even!

[Pint0 Xtreme]

Speaking of picketing businesses, word is that there is going to be a protest outside the Mormon church in Los Angeles today on Santa Monica blvd. It'll be interesting to see how that goes.

[Lord MJ]

I like the idea of any one in a state that banned gay marriage refusing to pay state taxes until the amendments are repealed.

I know that more most people income taxes are withheld and sales taxes are usually charged at sale time, but what other taxes are there that aren't automatically deducted.

I would imagine property taxes et al. Is there anyway to get out of automatic withholding of state taxes?

Of course this only would work for those that actually live in the states in question and would only apply to state taxes, not federal (no you can't stop paying Federal taxes to protest Proposition

[Justforfun000]

By the way....somebody in some thread recently posted a link to this site: http://www.thinkingchristian.net/2008/1 ... osition-8/

I'm arguing with the main asshat there, but would appreciate anyone who might want to throw some ammo this way. Aly you'd probably have handy info debunking his bullshit about gays being immoral because there's so much proof that we are more diseased and have so many mental and social issues.

Apparently our behaviour (and we're all the same of course), proves our morality. I hate these particular kind of smarmy assholes who try to speak so logical and reference NARTH along with Christian biased study sources as if they actually threw a serious major study your way. I'm going to be civil to him, but just barely..

[General Zod]

By the way....somebody in some thread recently posted a link to this site: http://www.thinkingchristian.net/2008/1 ... osition-8/

I'm arguing with the main asshat there, but would appreciate anyone who might want to throw some ammo this way. Aly you'd probably have handy info debunking his bullshit about gays being immoral because there's so much proof that we are more diseased and have so many mental and social issues.

Apparently our behaviour (and we're all the same of course), proves our morality. I hate these particular kind of smarmy assholes who try to speak so logical and reference NARTH along with Christian biased study sources as if they actually threw a serious major study your way. I'm going to be civil to him, but just barely..

Ask him why Christians have a higher divorce rate than virtually any other group in the US if they're so morally superior.

[Darth Wong]

I like the idea of any one in a state that banned gay marriage refusing to pay state taxes until the amendments are repealed.

Only if those people accept that they may go to jail for their principles. Otherwise, it's really foolish to suggest such a thing.

Look, civil disobedience has its price: you have to be willing to go to jail. Maybe get a permanent criminal record. It's not just a matter of "making your point" and then waltzing away without consequence. When Gandhi used civil disobedience, people died to make their stand.

Frankly, I don't think this issue matters enough, even to the gay community itself, to undertake real civil disobedience measures. They will carry on, somewhat unhappily, but they will carry on.

[Darth Ruinus]

Hopefully this wont by thread hijack but does anyone have a link to any websites that are organizing protest marches? I heard there was one yesterday in West Hollywood and I hear there is going to be one today, but I can't find any links to this.

[Darth Wong]

What good is a protest march going to do now? The vote passed.

[apocolypse]

What good is a protest march going to do now? The vote passed.

Legally speaking and whatnot, it won't do shit. But I think that a lot of people are angry and frustrated, and this way they feel like they're doing something about it no matter how futile.

[Elfdart]

Hopefully this wont by thread hijack but does anyone have a link to any websites that are organizing protest marches? I heard there was one yesterday in West Hollywood and I hear there is going to be one today, but I can't find any links to this.

I think picketing and boycotts would be the way to go. Protest marches in city streets are little more than a nuisance for no gain. Pickets outside of stores really do drive away customers.

[Lord Poe]

Hopefully this wont by thread hijack but does anyone have a link to any websites that are organizing protest marches? I heard there was one yesterday in West Hollywood and I hear there is going to be one today, but I can't find any links to this.

Google protest groups in your area that use www.twitter.com. You'll get free (up to 250 per month) text messages right to your cell phone for updates.

[Darth Wong]

Hopefully this wont by thread hijack but does anyone have a link to any websites that are organizing protest marches? I heard there was one yesterday in West Hollywood and I hear there is going to be one today, but I can't find any links to this.

I think picketing and boycotts would be the way to go. Protest marches in city streets are little more than a nuisance for no gain. Pickets outside of stores really do drive away customers.

Can you really get people to picket stores for gay marriage? Like it or not, the "civil union" idea was very politically clever. It's a stopgap between treating them as subhumans and giving them real equality, much as "separate but equal" was a powerful argument in the pre-civil rights era. It is considered a "compromise" position, hence it is viewed as being "reasonable" even if it is based on a fundamental assumption ("separate but equal") which was struck down four decades ago.

[Duckie]

On the plus side, Civil Unions are supported by a majority of America, albeit concentrated more in the north. Once people grow up in a world where you can get married in half the states and civil unions in most of the rest, what is to stop the incremental change of just declaring those unions marriage?

I think it's equally as much a nefarious compromise as it is a slow, safer route to gay marriage.

[Elfdart]

Can you really get people to picket stores for gay marriage? Like it or not, the "civil union" idea was very politically clever. It's a stopgap between treating them as subhumans and giving them real equality, much as "separate but equal" was a powerful argument in the pre-civil rights era. It is considered a "compromise" position, hence it is viewed as being "reasonable" even if it is based on a fundamental assumption ("separate but equal") which was struck down four decades ago.

I have no idea. I just know that marches in the street are a dime a dozen and the media mostly ignore them, so they're a waste of time. Picketing businesses usually does work to some degree, since the average person would rather not be inconvenienced while shopping. If enough people take part, who knows? Public shaming of the bigots might also work.

The only other solution would be to repeal the so-called "Defense of Marriage Act" so a gay marriage in Massachusetts would be valid throughout the entire country based on the Full Faith & Credit clause of the Constitution.

[Pint0 Xtreme]

Realistically, what are the chances of DOMA being overturned? The democrats are in control but cmon. Democrats aren't very socially progressive. They are nowhere as bad as the Republicans but this is America we're talking about. The public backlash would be huge.