Tea Party Leader Mocks NAACP "Coloreds" In Online Screed

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Re: Tea Party Leader Mocks NAACP "Coloreds" In Online Screed

Post by Serafina »

Where? Haven't seen any. Your a German, so you should know some history on certain racist organizations, like the National Socialist Workers Party, under Hitler. So lets compare.
Ah, yes. Because the evil Nazzies were the only racist organisation, ever.
Does the Tea Party have Storm Troopers? Does the Tea Party have Brown Shirts?
No. Mostly because they are not yet in power and there is an effective force of law arrayed against them.
Does the Tea Party talk about Racial Purity, does it examine each member's ancestry to determine if there is any "Jewish Blood"?
Naah, thats too complicated for them. Many of them just don't like blacks.
Do they measure anyone's skulls for "racial inferiority"?
So anyone who does not do this is not a racist?
Great, so i can hate blacks for being black as long as i don't measure their skulls without being a racist :roll:
No, I think not. What we're talking about is someone sneaking into a crowd and yelling "Heil Hitler" perhaps, or waving a Confederate Flag, but like UFO pictures, evidence is lacking, and I firmly believe in innocence until proven guilty. Now throwing around unsubstantiated accussations about racism is no better than doing so about Communist Associations.
Yeah, not only was the above a complete red herring - but you are also full of shit.
What about this very thread? It contains several pieces of evidence.
I firmly believe that the highest tax rate in the country should be no higher that 25% of one's income, that is local, state, and federal governments combined.
And why do you believe that? Is there any particular reason why the tax should be fixed?
Government is a necessary evil, but as an evil we should only have as much government as we need and spend not a penny more than necessary for things that only government can and should do.
Yes, let's call it evil.
After all, the government only builds the roads you drive on, funded your education, watches over the safety of your food and water, protects your country from invaders, bails out your industry when necessary and makes sure that people don't starve to death. And much more.
That 25% is how much of the economy that I think government operations should take up, barring national emergencies such as war for example. I do not think more that 25% of all the salaries paid should be in the government sector, and if government is doing things that private industry can do, then government should stop doing it.
Do you have any argument other than "i personally believe"?
Government should keep their noses out of people's business, it should not mandate health insurance and then penalize people for not having it.
You are a fucktard. Health is a human right. Health insurance is necessary to ensure it. Private, unregulated health insurance tends to SUCK.
You invest more than every other first-world nation into healthcare both per capita and in percentage GPD and you do not produce better results while doing so. Million of American citizens are uninsured - if they get sick, they will have no access to medical aid. People are denied life-saving procedures just because it would be too expensive for the insurance company. People who had the bad luck to be born with bad health have abyssal chances of getting health insurance.
Meanwhile, nations that actually value human life rather than money (such as most/all of Europe) have public options, mandatory insurance and single-payer systems. They spend less than you do, and people don't have to die because they do not have millions of Euros to pay for their medical treatments.
I think tax money that is not spent towards a legitimate government responsibility designed to benefit society as a whole, can be considered stolen money. I think there should be a Contitutional limit on the percentage of one's income government can tax, and if it wants to increase revenue, it should do so by fostering economic growth rather than by taking a greater slice of one's income. Now as a German, you should know what real racism is, and Hitler is not largely regarded as infamous for his tax cuts, so the Tea Party and the Nazi Party obviously don't belong in the same category.
Yes, everyone who is not as bad as Hitler is not a racist. :roll:
I believe there are certain individual problems that can't be solved by large organizations in a systematic way, the problem of unemployment is one, there will always be some people who are unemployed, sometimes the number goes up and sometimes it goes down, but there will always be some people who can't find work. I also believe there will always be racism and prejudice, some of it is institutional and can be eliminated by the institution, but if "Joe Smo" hates black people and attends a Tea Party rally, there is nothing you can do unless he proves disruptive to the gathering by starting fights and other stuff like that.
Of course they can. If he disrupts any meeting by shouting racist crap, they can throw him out. That's what would happen in pretty much every political party or organization in Germany - well, except the Nazi parties. Guess what - the Tea Party doesn't do that.
Freedom of speech and freedom of thought are more important than freedom from racism.
You know, since you seem to be so fond of Nazi-comparisons: Germany learned an important lesson from that: Democracy has to be defended. If a political party undermines the principles of Democracy or the constitution, it must not be allowed to rise to power.
The Tea Party is a association, there is no rules master, no leader, no director, each meeting has an organizer, but it is not a political party.
If you organize a rally, you are responsible for it.
Of course, responsibility is probably not all that familiar to you. Unless it's about other people.
The Problem Democrats and Socialists is that they always expect everything to be organized from the top, they thing an organization should be composed of leaders and followers, the leaders issue "Marching orders" and the followers obey like good little troopers, but that is not how the Tea Party works, it is a grass roots organization composed of concerned citizens, most of whom gather because they don't like high taxes, their opponents rather than argue for higher taxes would rather change the subject and level charges of racism to get a good distraction.
You are serious, are you? Heck, i forgot how that sort of brainwashing and projection tend to work.


Now on to the actual issue. Taxes are a necessity. Taxes are GOOD. Without them, there would be no USA. There would be an A, but no US. Without them, you have no infrastructure, army, education, health safety, safety regulations, foreign trade treaties - no nothing.
But of course, you are a near-sighted fool who is more concerned about his money rather than the welfare of his society.
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Re: Tea Party Leader Mocks NAACP "Coloreds" In Online Screed

Post by Night_stalker »

Dude, you can't argue with the moron who refuses to listen to all the nice evidence we gave him, doesn't even bother attempting to back up his BS claims, and refuses to change his position, or even try some basic research about the subject.

Wait, am I the only one who thinks that we might have a potential troll here?
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Re: Tea Party Leader Mocks NAACP "Coloreds" In Online Screed

Post by Crossroads Inc. »

Night_stalker wrote:Wait, am I the only one who thinks that we might have a potential troll here?
No...

People like Tom honestly and truly believe their view of the world. Trolling entails a deliberate malice to stir up others into anger against a poster. I am willing to bet that Tom is like one of those evangelicals who preaches the word of God, and simple cannot fathom why everyone does not immediately "see the light" and the errors of their ways.

there really is nothing anyone could say to change his mind, because for people like Tom "racism" can only take place in super evil nazi dictatorships. The fact that he uses the 'argument' that because TeaParties aren't running around with storm-troopers and openly oppressing people as evidence that they aren't Racists, is all we need to illustrate that he is incapable of seeing anything less then that as racism or bigotry.
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Re: Tea Party Leader Mocks NAACP "Coloreds" In Online Screed

Post by Samuel »

Now as a German, you should know what real racism is, and Hitler is not largely regarded as infamous for his tax cuts,
Hitler had connections to the major industrialists in Germany. I'm betting he granted tax cuts to them. Does anyone have information about the change in German tax rates between 1932 and 1939?
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Re: Tea Party Leader Mocks NAACP "Coloreds" In Online Screed

Post by Thanas »

Samuel wrote:
Now as a German, you should know what real racism is, and Hitler is not largely regarded as infamous for his tax cuts,
Hitler had connections to the major industrialists in Germany. I'm betting he granted tax cuts to them. Does anyone have information about the change in German tax rates between 1932 and 1939?
No tax cuts IIRC, but he destroyed organized labor, fixed wages and granted them massive government programs.
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Re: Tea Party Leader Mocks NAACP "Coloreds" In Online Screed

Post by Night_stalker »

Crossroads Inc. wrote:
Night_stalker wrote:Wait, am I the only one who thinks that we might have a potential troll here?
No...

People like Tom honestly and truly believe their view of the world. Trolling entails a deliberate malice to stir up others into anger against a poster. I am willing to bet that Tom is like one of those evangelicals who preaches the word of God, and simple cannot fathom why everyone does not immediately "see the light" and the errors of their ways.

there really is nothing anyone could say to change his mind, because for people like Tom "racism" can only take place in super evil nazi dictatorships. The fact that he uses the 'argument' that because TeaParties aren't running around with storm-troopers and openly oppressing people as evidence that they aren't Racists, is all we need to illustrate that he is incapable of seeing anything less then that as racism or bigotry.
OK, my bad. Still, hard to believe how he still refuses to see the light. It's like talking to my cat, only my cat is a bit more intelligent than this guy if his posts in this thread are anything to go by.
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Re: Tea Party Leader Mocks NAACP "Coloreds" In Online Screed

Post by LapsedPacifist »

25% of income taxed seems like a really arbitrary amount before you take into consideration what kind of government you want or what services you need or expect it to provide. Downright silly even.
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Re: Tea Party Leader Mocks NAACP "Coloreds" In Online Screed

Post by Tom_Kalbfus »

LapsedPacifist wrote:25% of income taxed seems like a really arbitrary amount before you take into consideration what kind of government you want or what services you need or expect it to provide. Downright silly even.
I believe one should keep most of what one earns and 75% of one's earnings seems fair to me. Government is a necessary evil, so therefore I would resort to that evil only when necessary. Government is needed to provide for the Common Defense and ensure Domestic Tranquility, everything else is extra and dependent on our ability to afford it, and I'd budget 25% of National Income on Government, as the economy grows then so does government revenue. The main problem with government is that it is a natural monopoly, so I'd want it rendering only services that can't be provided by the free market. In the free market there is choice, if you don't like "brand x" you purchase "brand y". Government serves as a redistributor, and that is fine so long as the amount redistributed does not exceed the 25% I've alotted towards government expenditures, as the economy grows so too do government revenues and thus what government can afford, but I believe that the remaining 75% should be kept off-limits to all but the most dire of National Emergencies, such as War and the like. I believe people have the right to keep most of what they earn. Governments should restrict themselves to doing things only governments can do, anything else government does with your money is tantamount to stealing.
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Re: Tea Party Leader Mocks NAACP "Coloreds" In Online Screed

Post by Einzige »

Hey jackass, why don't you respond to my chart?
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Re: Tea Party Leader Mocks NAACP "Coloreds" In Online Screed

Post by eion »

Tom, if you learn nothing else from this forum, learn this:

WE DO NOT GIVE A FLYING FUCK WHAT "YOU BELIEVE"!

Only what you can prove through reason and supporting evidence. Repeating your statement is not defending it.

Also, if you're going to base the entirety of your political philosophy on one measly sentence from a rather comprehensive document, at least quote it correctly. It is:
Dead White Guys wrote:We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
I'm told you can even get it in song form.
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Re: Tea Party Leader Mocks NAACP "Coloreds" In Online Screed

Post by Crossroads Inc. »

You heard Tom people!

From now on if he wants to drive he has to pave his own roads, Government doesn't have anything to do there right? And if he wants to use water looks like he will have to lay down his own water pipes. And all the national parks can be sold to the highest bidder and disbanded. We can shut down all government run schools too, those don't have anything to do with protecting the nation after all.

And naturally we shall rely on private industry for all Healthcare, Fire departments, Police protection, Educational grants, job Security.

...

Tom, do people like you ever truly think about just how important Government is?
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Re: Tea Party Leader Mocks NAACP "Coloreds" In Online Screed

Post by Night_stalker »

The problem with that statement is that it would require him to think, and not just spew BS, like he's been doing so far.
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Re: Tea Party Leader Mocks NAACP "Coloreds" In Online Screed

Post by Tom_Kalbfus »

Serafina wrote:
Where? Haven't seen any. Your a German, so you should know some history on certain racist organizations, like the National Socialist Workers Party, under Hitler. So lets compare.
Ah, yes. Because the evil Nazzies were the only racist organisation, ever.
I have German ancestry too, so I do not completely disassociate myself with your country, Kalbfus is after all a German name, that said, Germany is not only know for Nazism, but also as the homeland of a certain Karl Marx, Germany was also split in two until 1989 one part was occupied and then controlled by the Russians. What the Russians did to Germany was not justifiable.
Does the Tea Party have Storm Troopers? Does the Tea Party have Brown Shirts?
No. Mostly because they are not yet in power and there is an effective force of law arrayed against them.
Your assuming they are like the Nazi Party, the Nazis had Storm Troopers before they attained power in Germany, they kept order during those Nazi rallies and disrupted those rallies of their opponents.
Does the Tea Party talk about Racial Purity, does it examine each member's ancestry to determine if there is any "Jewish Blood"?
Naah, thats too complicated for them. Many of them just don't like blacks.
Some people don't like other people for whatever reason, sometimes its because of race, and sometimes its because of one's political views, so long as that racism doesn't prevent people from living peacably with ones neighbors and getting along with life, it is none of anyone's business what one thinks. People are free to think or say whatever they want so long as it doesn't cause direct harm like yelling "fire" in a crowded theater and there is no fire, resulting in a panic causing needless death and injury.
Do they measure anyone's skulls for "racial inferiority"?
So anyone who does not do this is not a racist?
Great, so i can hate blacks for being black as long as i don't measure their skulls without being a racist :roll:
You can indeed hate blacks for being black, just like many hate Americans for being American, just ask the Iranians about that. You seem to demonstrate a hatred towards me for expressing my views, that you disagree with, you call me names and so forth.
No, I think not. What we're talking about is someone sneaking into a crowd and yelling "Heil Hitler" perhaps, or waving a Confederate Flag, but like UFO pictures, evidence is lacking, and I firmly believe in innocence until proven guilty. Now throwing around unsubstantiated accussations about racism is no better than doing so about Communist Associations.
Yeah, not only was the above a complete red herring - but you are also full of shit.
What about this very thread? It contains several pieces of evidence.
A Chart? Who knows where that chart came from or whether its accurate, it also ends at 2006, about two years before Barack Obama landed in the White House, a lot has happened since the end of the Bush Administration. Bush was reacting to the attack on 9/11 against the World Trade Center, the Pentagon, and another airplane that was hijacked by terrorists and was downed in Pennsyvania, Wars as you know can be expensive, and the reason this one was expensive was in part because we tried very hard to avoid unnecessary civilian casualities, it would have been cheaper to fight the war the way Hitler would have, or for that matter Eisenhower, but in the 21st century standards are much higher than during World War II, perhaps too high, but for whatever reason the War against Terror was and is expensive, and we can't just surrender to it, so we keep on fighting. The War on the other hand is cheap for the terrorists, because they don't care who they kill, just so that some Americans number among those killed. Exploding car bombs are cheap compared to precision guided weapons, that are nevertheless never precise enough for our liberal left-wing critics who criticise our right to defend ourselves.
I firmly believe that the highest tax rate in the country should be no higher that 25% of one's income, that is local, state, and federal governments combined.
And why do you believe that? Is there any particular reason why the tax should be fixed?
Because the power to tax is a temptation that needs to be resisted. If you are a private company, you can't just arbitrarily raise the prices of the product or service you sell, because your compeditor may keep his prices low and take a greater share of your customers as the flock to the lower price seller to save money. For a government the tax is their price they charge customers called taxpayers, unlike a customer of a private business, the taxpayer has no choice but to pay his taxes or else be arrested, therefore it is incumbant upon government to tax as little as necessary, because taxation causes real harm to the economy and slows growth. If the government taxes at 25% it consumes 25% of the economy, leaving its citizens with only the 75% that is left. Governments also don't have to worry about losing their customers, as customers cannot legally choose another provider for government services without moving to another country. Corporations on the other hand have less compunction about moving to another country, and taking the jobs they provide with them. The people who are stuck in their countries or for reasons having to do with language, culture, or national pride choose to stay, often find jobs harder to find as their employers flee to other countries in search of lower taxes. Fewer jobs mean less tax revenue for the government, and hiking the taxes to a higher percentage of income causes more corporations to flee, so even if they tax at 90%, few will want to stay in the country and provide jobs because their profit margin is reduce to only 10% of what it was before taxes, they will go to another country that taxes them at 25% so they can keep 75% of their profits and thus provide them with a greater return on their investments.
Government is a necessary evil, but as an evil we should only have as much government as we need and spend not a penny more than necessary for things that only government can and should do.
Yes, let's call it evil.
After all, the government only builds the roads you drive on, funded your education, watches over the safety of your food and water, protects your country from invaders, bails out your industry when necessary and makes sure that people don't starve to death. And much more.
Government must then prioritize that which it does from most important to least important and spend within a certain limit instead of taking more and more from the taxpayer. We all have a budget, and we don't have the option of taking from our neighbors that which we need to buy all the stuff we wish to purchase. The government sector only expands at the expense of the private sector, and the private sector is the part with generates the income from which government takes its revenue. Every increase in taxes reduces the return on investment for many companies, making those firms less profitable thus reducing investments. If a certain firm makes a calculation that a certain investment will yield x% of return, at a 25% tax rate it will realize 0.75x% return after taxes and this will attract a certain amount of investment create a certain number of jobs and expand the business thus rewarding the investors, but if the tax rate jumps to 90%, the after tax return will drop to 0.1x% which was less than what it got before, so fewer people are willing to invest their money for this smaller return, the business doesn't grow as fast as a result, and fewer jobs are created.
That 25% is how much of the economy that I think government operations should take up, barring national emergencies such as war for example. I do not think more that 25% of all the salaries paid should be in the government sector, and if government is doing things that private industry can do, then government should stop doing it.
Do you have any argument other than "i personally believe"?
Government should keep their noses out of people's business, it should not mandate health insurance and then penalize people for not having it.
You are a fucktard. Health is a human right. Health insurance is necessary to ensure it. Private, unregulated health insurance tends to SUCK.
The World isn't a perfect place and there is nothing government can do to make it a perfect place. Health care costs a certain amount, the doctors need to be paid, the drugs need to be bought, Government can help with health care costs but it cannot insure anyone's health.

You invest more than every other first-world nation into healthcare both per capita and in percentage GPD and you do not produce better results while doing so. Million of American citizens are uninsured - if they get sick, they will have no access to medical aid. People are denied life-saving procedures just because it would be too expensive for the insurance company. People who had the bad luck to be born with bad health have abyssal chances of getting health insurance.
Emergency rooms are required by law to treat people regardless of their ability to pay, certain charities make donations to help poor people with healthcare, and one of those charities is the government through social security, medicade and medicare, but we have to decide on how much we want to spend on healthcare as a societal good as opposed to an individual expense. I don't thinkoney we can spend unlimited amounts of money, there is a limit, whether it is what the individual can afford or society as a whole, we must prioritize here as well, the choice is whether we prioritize as individual patients or as a society, I think we do some of both.
Meanwhile, nations that actually value human life rather than money (such as most/all of Europe) have public options, mandatory insurance and single-payer systems. They spend less than you do, and people don't have to die because they do not have millions of Euros to pay for their medical treatments.
they prioritize as a society, they tax that society more thus leaving the individual with less money to spend on his own healthcare on that part which the government won't cover. There are always trade offs and limits on resources whether they are of the government or of the individual.
I think tax money that is not spent towards a legitimate government responsibility designed to benefit society as a whole, can be considered stolen money. I think there should be a Contitutional limit on the percentage of one's income government can tax, and if it wants to increase revenue, it should do so by fostering economic growth rather than by taking a greater slice of one's income. Now as a German, you should know what real racism is, and Hitler is not largely regarded as infamous for his tax cuts, so the Tea Party and the Nazi Party obviously don't belong in the same category.
Yes, everyone who is not as bad as Hitler is not a racist. :roll:
A certain level of racism is a given, and frankly is not worth addressing, as the cost of remedying it involves the loss of certain individual freedoms such as the freedom of speech, freedom of association and so forth. Everybody faces some sort of prejudice or another in his life, I do, we all learn to live with it and make the best with what we got, the point is to keep it down, the overt harmful prejudice that prevents groups of people from succeeding in life regardless of talent - as had happened in Germany, and to a lesser extend in America at times past. I think the level of prejudice has dropped to a level where most blacks can simply ignore it and grow some thick skin rather than suspecting racial discrimination at every corner. If a person feels racism is holding him back, he can simply try harder and if he tries hard enough, he can succeed. Complaining about racism past a certain point is a crutch, because it removes the responsibility for success from the individual as he can always blame the "other" for not getting that job and so forth.

...Of course they can. If he disrupts any meeting by shouting racist crap, they can throw him out. That's what would happen in pretty much every political party or organization in Germany - well.
Racism can never be completely eliminated, people will keep their thoughts to themselves, they might not hire someone because they are black but they will never admit as much, and there is nothing the German government can do about it, and the loss of freedom caused by hiring quotas just aren't worth the trouble for the meager benefit they would deliver. Freedom once lost, is hard to regain, as a German you should know that.
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Re: Tea Party Leader Mocks NAACP "Coloreds" In Online Screed

Post by Einzige »

Répondez s'il vous plaît. How do you doublethink your way around the Reagan/Bush II deficits?
When the histories are written, I'll bet that the Old Right and the New Left are put down as having a lot in common and that the people in the middle will be the enemy.
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Re: Tea Party Leader Mocks NAACP "Coloreds" In Online Screed

Post by eion »

Tom_Kalbfus wrote:A Chart? Who knows where that chart came from or whether its accurate...
There ya go, kid. Knock yourself out.
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Re: Tea Party Leader Mocks NAACP "Coloreds" In Online Screed

Post by bobalot »

Tom_Kalbfus wrote:
bobalot wrote:Holy shit, I'm gone for a day and this abortion of a thread continues. This retard NEVER provides any actual evidence for anything he claims other than his say so.

I'm still waiting for him to explain why the NAACP should be concerned with "high taxes" and "big government". When asked to actually explain this, the guy makes EVEN MORE unverified claims.
Because the NAACP is an arm of the Democratic Party, and the Democratic Party wants to spend spend spend and run up deficits, and then raise taxes to solve them. The NAACP is like a sock puppet for the Democratic Party, whenever they want to smear somebody and call a person or organization racist it falls on the NAACP to do so.
EVEN MORE FUCKING UNVERIFIED CLAIMS, ASSHOLE.
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Re: Tea Party Leader Mocks NAACP "Coloreds" In Online Screed

Post by PeZook »

Tom_Kalbfus wrote: I believe one should keep most of what one earns and 75% of one's earnings seems fair to me. Government is a necessary evil, so therefore I would resort to that evil only when necessary. Government is needed to provide for the Common Defense and ensure Domestic Tranquility, everything else is extra and dependent on our ability to afford it, and I'd budget 25% of National Income on Government, as the economy grows then so does government revenue. The main problem with government is that it is a natural monopoly, so I'd want it rendering only services that can't be provided by the free market. In the free market there is choice, if you don't like "brand x" you purchase "brand y". Government serves as a redistributor, and that is fine so long as the amount redistributed does not exceed the 25% I've alotted towards government expenditures, as the economy grows so too do government revenues and thus what government can afford, but I believe that the remaining 75% should be kept off-limits to all but the most dire of National Emergencies, such as War and the like. I believe people have the right to keep most of what they earn. Governments should restrict themselves to doing things only governments can do, anything else government does with your money is tantamount to stealing.
I was going to make a scathing comment about people who decide tax rates upon "Because I think it's fair", rather than trying to come up with an estimate of the costs the government would have to bear, but then I've seen your numbers and realized that what you're actually advocating is increasing overall tax burdens by about 60%, so I guess you're not that much of an idiot after all...

Code: Select all

World Factbook data for 2009: 
US Economy: 14.26 trillion 
US budget revenues 2.104 trillion (14,7% GDP)
US budget spending 3.52 trillion (24,6% GDP)
I assume it's because you think the US government should be fiscally responsible and reduce debt, rather than because you have no fucking idea how much of the economy it actually requisitions in taxes...

EDIT:
Forbes-composed overall tax burden table for OECD countries

Really, the Tea Party cocksuckers should shut the fuck up already. They're getting really good value for their goddamn money with such a low tax burden, they're just too goddamned stupid to realize that.
Last edited by PeZook on 2010-07-20 04:33am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Tea Party Leader Mocks NAACP "Coloreds" In Online Screed

Post by Serafina »

I have German ancestry too, so I do not completely disassociate myself with your country, Kalbfus is after all a German name, that said, Germany is not only know for Nazism, but also as the homeland of a certain Karl Marx, Germany was also split in two until 1989 one part was occupied and then controlled by the Russians. What the Russians did to Germany was not justifiable.
And that changes your argument...how?
Let me get this straight: You argued that the Tea Parts is not comparable to the NSDAP - and hence they are not racist.
How does that validate your argument?
Your assuming they are like the Nazi Party, the Nazis had Storm Troopers before they attained power in Germany, they kept order during those Nazi rallies and disrupted those rallies of their opponents.
You clearly know nothing about how the NSDAP gained it's power. I even wrote about it.
Hint: It involved bringing violent, armed people to peaceful rallies.
Some people don't like other people for whatever reason, sometimes its because of race, and sometimes its because of one's political views, so long as that racism doesn't prevent people from living peacably with ones neighbors and getting along with life, it is none of anyone's business what one thinks. People are free to think or say whatever they want so long as it doesn't cause direct harm like yelling "fire" in a crowded theater and there is no fire, resulting in a panic causing needless death and injury.
So you admit that they are racists? Thank you very much.
You can indeed hate blacks for being black, just like many hate Americans for being American, just ask the Iranians about that. You seem to demonstrate a hatred towards me for expressing my views, that you disagree with, you call me names and so forth.
Uuh, "hatred". Yeah, right - i just don't like stupid morons who spread idiotic political lies. Like you.
A Chart? Who knows where that chart came from or whether its accurate, it also ends at 2006, about two years before Barack Obama landed in the White House, a lot has happened since the end of the Bush Administration. Bush was reacting to the attack on 9/11 against the World Trade Center, the Pentagon, and another airplane that was hijacked by terrorists and was downed in Pennsyvania, Wars as you know can be expensive, and the reason this one was expensive was in part because we tried very hard to avoid unnecessary civilian casualities, it would have been cheaper to fight the war the way Hitler would have, or for that matter Eisenhower, but in the 21st century standards are much higher than during World War II, perhaps too high, but for whatever reason the War against Terror was and is expensive, and we can't just surrender to it, so we keep on fighting. The War on the other hand is cheap for the terrorists, because they don't care who they kill, just so that some Americans number among those killed. Exploding car bombs are cheap compared to precision guided weapons, that are nevertheless never precise enough for our liberal left-wing critics who criticise our right to defend ourselves.
And Obama has to deal with a financial crisis.
And i assume every other Republican president before who also racked up huge amounts of debt was also fighting the war on Terror?
We are not talking about a recent trend here, kiddo. EVERY republican president during the last century racked up massive debt, while Democrats tended to reduce it.
If you actually cared about the financial well-being of your nation, you would look at that. But you only care about your money, hence whoever grants you the bigger tax-cut gets your love.
Because the power to tax is a temptation that needs to be resisted.
And of course, there is absolutely no government control by the people :roll:
If you are a private company, you can't just arbitrarily raise the prices of the product or service you sell, because your compeditor may keep his prices low and take a greater share of your customers as the flock to the lower price seller to save money. For a government the tax is their price they charge customers called taxpayers, unlike a customer of a private business, the taxpayer has no choice but to pay his taxes or else be arrested, therefore it is incumbant upon government to tax as little as necessary, because taxation causes real harm to the economy and slows growth. If the government taxes at 25% it consumes 25% of the economy, leaving its citizens with only the 75% that is left.
Hint: It's called Democracy.
Then again, your's is bankrupt in more ways than just financially.
Governments also don't have to worry about losing their customers, as customers cannot legally choose another provider for government services without moving to another country.
Hint: It's called voting.
Corporations on the other hand have less compunction about moving to another country, and taking the jobs they provide with them. The people who are stuck in their countries or for reasons having to do with language, culture, or national pride choose to stay, often find jobs harder to find as their employers flee to other countries in search of lower taxes. Fewer jobs mean less tax revenue for the government, and hiking the taxes to a higher percentage of income causes more corporations to flee, so even if they tax at 90%, few will want to stay in the country and provide jobs because their profit margin is reduce to only 10% of what it was before taxes, they will go to another country that taxes them at 25% so they can keep 75% of their profits and thus provide them with a greater return on their investments.
Show me that tax cuts result in more jobs, shithead.
Government must then prioritize that which it does from most important to least important and spend within a certain limit instead of taking more and more from the taxpayer.
In other words, you don't care if it simply doesn't have enough money to do it's job. You already HAVE a budget and manage to rack up massive debts - because some things just have to be done! You can't just decide to stop all road maintanance for one or two year, to to not fund the military at all.

A certain level of racism is a given, and frankly is not worth addressing, as the cost of remedying it involves the loss of certain individual freedoms such as the freedom of speech, freedom of association and so forth. Everybody faces some sort of prejudice or another in his life, I do, we all learn to live with it and make the best with what we got, the point is to keep it down, the overt harmful prejudice that prevents groups of people from succeeding in life regardless of talent - as had happened in Germany, and to a lesser extend in America at times past. I think the level of prejudice has dropped to a level where most blacks can simply ignore it and grow some thick skin rather than suspecting racial discrimination at every corner. If a person feels racism is holding him back, he can simply try harder and if he tries hard enough, he can succeed. Complaining about racism past a certain point is a crutch, because it removes the responsibility for success from the individual as he can always blame the "other" for not getting that job and so forth.
Yes, them blacks should just take the discrimination! How dare they to complain!
That was enough to call you a racist, you little racist fucktard. You have no interest in actual equality and are denying and distorting the racism in the USA.
Besides, i doubt that you were ever really discriminated against - you are, after all, a christian white male.
Racism can never be completely eliminated, people will keep their thoughts to themselves, they might not hire someone because they are black but they will never admit as much, and there is nothing the German government can do about it, and the loss of freedom caused by hiring quotas just aren't worth the trouble for the meager benefit they would deliver. Freedom once lost, is hard to regain, as a German you should know that.
You are a little racist who knows nothing about German history. Just because your grandfather fucked a german woman or something like that you do not know anything about it.
Either way, you totally ignored my point that any decent organization would NOT TOLERATE the racism the Tea Party tolerates.

Conclusion:
The Tea Party is a collection full of racist fucktards like Tom_Kalbfus.
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Re: Tea Party Leader Mocks NAACP "Coloreds" In Online Screed

Post by ShadowDragon8685 »

Tom_Kalbfus wrote:I have German ancestry too, so I do not completely disassociate myself with your country, Kalbfus is after all a German name, that said, Germany is not only know for Nazism, but also as the homeland of a certain Karl Marx, Germany was also split in two until 1989 one part was occupied and then controlled by the Russians. What the Russians did to Germany was not justifiable.
1: You can't prove it's your real name, no Ethnix card for you.
1a: You don't want to try and prove it's your real name. Trust me on that.
2: This has the fuck what to do with anything? Smells like smoke screen and red herring.
Does the Tea Party have Storm Troopers? Does the Tea Party have Brown Shirts?
No. Mostly because they are not yet in power and there is an effective force of law arrayed against them.
Your assuming they are like the Nazi Party, the Nazis had Storm Troopers before they attained power in Germany, they kept order during those Nazi rallies and disrupted those rallies of their opponents.
Oh no? Five seconds of searching You Tube. You must be completely disconnected to think that the tea-party types aren't having assholes disrupting the political gatherings of their opponents. Off the top of my head I recall during the '08 campaign free-for-all that the right wing was encouraging it's members to shit down on the "left" (which means "anyone left of Dear Departing Cowboy-Leader Bush") when they tried to talk sensibly by yelling bullshit at them.

As far as them not having people ready and willing to commit violence for the movement's causes, George Tiller and Scott Roeder would both disagree with you on that point, from opposite ends of the barrel of a gun. However, thankfully, this country still has an effective rule of law, which means only the truly fanatical are ready to commit violence and face the music for it in the name of their causes. The rest are waiting until law and order has broken down to the point where they won't face personal consequences for doing it before they join in.
Some people don't like other people for whatever reason, sometimes its because of race, and sometimes its because of one's political views, so long as that racism doesn't prevent people from living peacably with ones neighbors and getting along with life, it is none of anyone's business what one thinks. People are free to think or say whatever they want so long as it doesn't cause direct harm like yelling "fire" in a crowded theater and there is no fire, resulting in a panic causing needless death and injury.
I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess you're white. I'm going to further surmise that your community and social groups (that is, those that meet face-to-face, if you have any,) overwhelmingly consist of people who are extremely similar to you in all respects. Let me tell you a story.

Warning to the forums: Anecdote territory ahead. Awooogah! Skip down to the next quote block if you want to avoid it.

In my employment with the Census bureau, I worked with a fairly diverse set of ten people. Though it is primarily Caucasian, we have an African-American woman (who's addicted to The Young and the Restless, FWIW) a Korean-American woman, and a Hispanic man. Some of us hold down or held down other employ, and the Hispanic guy, who's a great guy in all, was relating the story of his other employment at some kind of packing plant. He related the tale of how his fellow employees, including superiors, were in the overall racist towards him; his own boss would very frequently call him "wetback" in lieu of his actual name. (He's Guatemalan, he's an American citizen, BTW.) Eventually it got so frustrating to him that he simply quit his job. When he related this story, everyone, including especially our crew leader's boss, was horrified, she especially so, as he had earlier mentioned it and she'd advised him that he needed to contact his company's HR department and file complaints.

But, the guy felt it was hopeless; surrounded by people who loathed him because English wasn't his first language, he didn't feel as if he had any remedy to what had become an unbearable workplace full of (incorrect) ethnic slurs and racist remarks. Not, that is, that anybody ever did or treated him any different than anyone else - except for the unpredictable but frequent espoused racism. In the end, it cost him his job and any hope of obtaining severance.

But hey, people should be free to say or think whatever they like so long as it doesn't cause direct harm, right? :banghead:
You can indeed hate blacks for being black, just like many hate Americans for being American, just ask the Iranians about that. You seem to demonstrate a hatred towards me for expressing my views, that you disagree with, you call me names and so forth.
You're a loathesome cunt, a waste of valuable protein matter, water and oxygen that could be another, more valuable human being. Having read very little of your beliefs or views, I have come to the conclusion that you fall within the group of "irredeemable fundietard kool-aid drinkers," and worthy of the range of emotions spanning from disgusted contempt (at best) to roaring rage (at worst.)

(I am not a very nice person towards those I find reason to hate.)

However, there is a difference. You have earned my emnity by espousing political, economic, and sociological views that I consider to be directly hostile nemesi to myself and my views, and I'm sure you have no love for my views either. You'd probably call me some kind of crazy communist if I tried to explain them, and if that be the case give me my ushanka and kalashnikov, comrade.

Racism, on the other hand, is like (and sometimes actually is) judging someone by the color of their hair. It's foundless and baseless, and serves only to create a permanent schism between artifically-drawn-up castes of human beings. I don't hate you because you're white as sour cream, I hate you because your politics are terrifying and I believe that if you had your way, we'd all wind up on an express train to hell.

The guy who's hated because he's black has done nothing to earn that hatred. If he robs a guy at gunpoint, sure, he's a shitheaded miserable wasteful excuse of human blood and organs, but guess what? So is anybody who commits armed robbery, whether they're blond-haired, blue-eyed Njordic* ubermen with names that have more umlauts than consonants, anybody with a ridiculous, vaugely-African-sounding name that is pronounced or spelled (or both) as if it has an apostrophe in it somewhere, or a guy who's name is Bob Jones and who fits the painful archtypical "average american" mold to a T.

Racism causes harm, and passing judgment on someone based on their ethnicity or skin tone or name is incomparable to passing judgement on them for deeds done, membership in groups, or views espoused.

*intentional hyperbolic misspelling.
A Chart? Who knows where that chart came from or whether its accurate, it also ends at 2006, about two years before Barack Obama landed in the White House, a lot has happened since the end of the Bush Administration. Bush was reacting to the attack on 9/11 against the World Trade Center, the Pentagon, and another airplane that was hijacked by terrorists and was downed in Pennsyvania, Wars as you know can be expensive, and the reason this one was expensive was in part because we tried very hard to avoid unnecessary civilian casualities, it would have been cheaper to fight the war the way Hitler would have, or for that matter Eisenhower, but in the 21st century standards are much higher than during World War II, perhaps too high, but for whatever reason the War against Terror was and is expensive, and we can't just surrender to it, so we keep on fighting. The War on the other hand is cheap for the terrorists, because they don't care who they kill, just so that some Americans number among those killed. Exploding car bombs are cheap compared to precision guided weapons, that are nevertheless never precise enough for our liberal left-wing critics who criticise our right to defend ourselves.
Wow, you're all over the map! And to think Thanas accuses me of hyperventilating! You spend one sentence vaugely impugning - and by that I mean "dismissing out of hand" because the chart's information is a few years old. Okay, fine. How's data accurate to within 2009 suit you?

Here you go. Yes, it's Wikipedia, but it's a Wikipedia article with data gathered and collated from three different sources. Go ahead, use the data from the Heritage Foundation, since that's the one you trust since they're a nice, conservative, right-wing, corporation-fellating think tank. Guess what - it's still only 28.2~28.3%. The OECD average, of course, remains 36.0%, so you're still being taxed over 7% less than by rights you ought not be - but since it's 3.2-3.3% more than you "believe" you should be taxed, you complain.

You are a moron if you think your tax burden is egregious.

Anyway, you then go on to an impressive hyperventilating red herring about "OH NOES TEH TERRORISTS!" Really, frankly? Shut the fuck up! You don't get a free pass on being a shit-head just because some shitheads were shitheady towards you, and this applies doubly so when one is a nation, and you don't get a free pass by trying to play the "b-b-b-b-b-b-b-but THE TERRORISTS ATTACKED US! WE HAVE TO KILL THEM ALL!" card. Sew your dribbling fear-hole the fuck up and try to locate the testicles that apparently popped off your body sometime around 9/11/01. So someone gave us a black eye and a bloody lip, boo fucking hoo. It doesn't give us the right to break out the Imperial March and twist off people's scrotes.

You want to play the tangent card? I'll play the tangent card. Six times as many people died in the United States in 2002 from a lack of healthcare as died in 2001 from the actions of terrorists. I don't see you taking up the cause of those people who got killed, now, do I?

Because the power to tax is a temptation that needs to be resisted. If you are a private company, you can't just arbitrarily raise the prices of the product or service you sell, because your compeditor may keep his prices low and take a greater share of your customers as the flock to the lower price seller to save money. For a government the tax is their price they charge customers called taxpayers, unlike a customer of a private business, the taxpayer has no choice but to pay his taxes or else be arrested, therefore it is incumbant upon government to tax as little as necessary, because taxation causes real harm to the economy and slows growth. If the government taxes at 25% it consumes 25% of the economy, leaving its citizens with only the 75% that is left. Governments also don't have to worry about losing their customers, as customers cannot legally choose another provider for government services without moving to another country. Corporations on the other hand have less compunction about moving to another country, and taking the jobs they provide with them. The people who are stuck in their countries or for reasons having to do with language, culture, or national pride choose to stay, often find jobs harder to find as their employers flee to other countries in search of lower taxes. Fewer jobs mean less tax revenue for the government, and hiking the taxes to a higher percentage of income causes more corporations to flee, so even if they tax at 90%, few will want to stay in the country and provide jobs because their profit margin is reduce to only 10% of what it was before taxes, they will go to another country that taxes them at 25% so they can keep 75% of their profits and thus provide them with a greater return on their investments.
What's that? Sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of you guzzling the kool-aid. How about you set the retard juice down for a minute and speak up? Okay? Good.

YOU ARE AN IDIOT. Your "personal belief" means about as much as Micheal Jackson's "personal belief" against the supernatural: IE, your personal beliefs and a fiver will get you a foot-long sub. You've picked an arbitrary number without any consideration whatsoever about what taxes are for, what and how the money is distributed, what needs to be done (especially looked at versus what is getting done,) or any other consideration other than your own personal reluctance to part with more than a quarter of your income. You want a personal belief? My personal belief is that your personal belief is based entirely on the fact that the number you choose as being the appropriate amount of taxation is the number of fingers on your left hand multiplied by the number of brain cells in your head!

Newsflash, shit needs to get done. The shit that needs to get done needs to be paid for, and the shit that needs to get done isn't going to politely and consonantly accept your "personal belief" that only 25% of every American's income and no more should go in taxation to pay for it, and bid itself accordingly. Shit needs to be paid for, it will cost what it will, and your choices are to live with the cost or without the end product. Or, alternatively, to live with the end cost and put the paying off until later, when it will cost more.

Morons like you aren't willing to live without things like roads and police forces and fire brigades and educators and so forth and so on, but you're also not willing to live with the cost. You are the reason they keep taking option three, because if they dare mention in passing that they're considering implementing a raise on the taxes you shriek and fling your own fecal matter and threaten to throw them out of office, and if they try to cut back on things like roads and police forces and fire brigades and educators, you... Pretty much do the exact same thing.

Also, try and get your economic education from someone who hasn't got a corporation's cock so far up his ass he can taste their precum next time, will ya? That mongling bullshit is painful to read.

Government must then prioritize that which it does from most important to least important and spend within a certain limit instead of taking more and more from the taxpayer. We all have a budget, and we don't have the option of taking from our neighbors that which we need to buy all the stuff we wish to purchase. The government sector only expands at the expense of the private sector, and the private sector is the part with generates the income from which government takes its revenue. Every increase in taxes reduces the return on investment for many companies, making those firms less profitable thus reducing investments. If a certain firm makes a calculation that a certain investment will yield x% of return, at a 25% tax rate it will realize 0.75x% return after taxes and this will attract a certain amount of investment create a certain number of jobs and expand the business thus rewarding the investors, but if the tax rate jumps to 90%, the after tax return will drop to 0.1x% which was less than what it got before, so fewer people are willing to invest their money for this smaller return, the business doesn't grow as fast as a result, and fewer jobs are created.
Newsflash, asshole. Nobody is talking about 90% tax rates, but your ridiculous belief in the magic of the 25% tax rate is as stupendously ridiculous as the belief in pyramid power. It's almost as ridiculous, in fact, as the notion that cutting taxes stimulates jobs; guess what? They've been cutting taxes for decades, and companies have been quite cheerfully pocketing the extra and handing it out to the executives and shareholders. The only thing trickling down is the steady stream of thin urine from the collective bloated, pustulent, swollen penis of corporate America into the faces of everybody else. This Econ 101 crap (with an apparent honors in Reaganomics,) is painful to say the least.

Government doesn't have the luxury of choosing "what it should do and what it shouldn't do" the way you have the luxury of choosing "do I want a new laptop, or an iPhone 4G." Rather, it has as much luxury of choosing what it spends it's money on as you do on choosing whether to pay for car insurance (necessary so you can go to work,) car maintenance (necessary so you can go to work,) food (necessary so you can continue to live,) or house payments (necessary so you don't wind up expiring of exposure and also for fun little things like having someplace comfortable to sleep and someplace to defecate in.)

Government exists to do the things which are beyond the means of all but the wealthiest of individuals and which cannot be effectively monetized and so will not be done by corporations. You can't defend your home from an army, and Wal-Mart Corp isn't going to raise and maintain a standing army, so government has to do it. Likewise, you can't afford to hire someone to protect you, to investigate crimes committed against you and to detain and charge those who perpetrated against you, and nobody in their right mind should want their police force's badge to be a yellow smiley face, so again, it's the kind of thing that falls to government. You can't afford to hire a fire brigade to run out to your house and put out the fire if it catches light, and the Wal-Mart Fire brigade isn't going to put out your house for free, so again, it falls to government. You can't afford to hire a genius Renaissance Man skilled and versed in everything from advanced mathematics to political sciences to educate the hypothetical fruit of your loins (dear Sol I hope you never factually breed,) and if the Wal-Mart Corp School accepts your kid it's probably going to be on conditions amounting to indentured servitude. Again, it falls to government - these and every other fucking thing in the world that is beyond the scope and ability of any Rugged goat-fucking Individual and which corporations are unsuited to, disinclined to, or untrustworthy to perform. Things like counting everybody, for instance.

You can't just pigeonhole an arbitrary amount and say "make it fit," unless you want a slapdash half-assed job done on everything (how would you like it if the police came to your house, saw it was trashed and all your stuff was gone, said "there's no evidence you're not responsible for all of this" and fucked off down the bar for a drink?,) or you want some area or areas completely neglected in favor of paying for the others?

So, what would you particularly care to do without? The Census? Hope you don't mind not being represented in Congress. Police? Please, tell me you want to live in an area which is unregulated by law and where it is to be found, I'll be 'round shortly with a shotgun and several large vehicles with which to relieve you of your material and financial goods. Fire Brigade? I sure hope that asshole snot-nosed pyrobug punk next door doesn't set his house alight and Sun forbid it should spread to your place! Roads? So, how exactly are you planning to get to work, did your Jetsons jetpack arrive? A military? I hope nobody gets any funny ideas about conquering us, because militia ain't gonna cut it in this day and age.

Oh, that's right. You want it all, but you don't want to spend a dime more than you personally believe you should spend on it! Here's one for you - I believe I should have Healthcare, and I don't want to spend more on it than whatever average percentage of the tax rate average for all of Europe goes to Healthcare!

Unlike you, my personal belief on the matter is not unreasonable. I haven't arbitrarily decreed - nay, demanded - that all my healthcare requirements be provided for at the mere sum of 1% of my annual income or something similarly assinine.
That 25% is how much of the economy that I think government operations should take up, barring national emergencies such as war for example. I do not think more that 25% of all the salaries paid should be in the government sector, and if government is doing things that private industry can do, then government should stop doing it.
Do you have any argument other than "i personally believe"?
No, he hasn't.

Government frequently can, and should, perform functions that private industry can do, simply because the free-market outcome with suck compared to the nationalized outcome. For example, it's certainly within the scope of the budget of some of the really, really huge corporations to band together and come up with the dough to raise an army, but armies generally aren't profitable things.

It can also do things like provide a post office. Sure, private businesses can and do offer their entries into the field, but the difference is that the Post Office does not have to make a profit, and if subsidized from the general tax fund does not even have to break even. This is an actual savings which is then passed on to the consumer of the post office's services; to wit, sending parcels and postal letters from one place to another. Less so if the post office is subsidized, but it's still a hell of a lot cheaper than paying UPS or Fed-Ex.
The World isn't a perfect place and there is nothing government can do to make it a perfect place. Health care costs a certain amount, the doctors need to be paid, the drugs need to be bought, Government can help with health care costs but it cannot insure anyone's health.
Um... Yes. Yes, in fact it can.

In fact, it does, in literally every other first-world country but this one, and in many second-world countries and even some of the better-off third-world countries. Government can damn well insure not only 'anyone' but everyone. It does so a hell of a lot more cheaply on the public, and provides for better outcomes. The free market simply cannot compete with a single-payer not-for-profit, tax-funded system; it is hopelessly incapable of offering any sort of competitive alternative, because by nature it's designs are incompatible with those of their ostensible customers.

It's very simple here, PAY ATTENTION. The government doesn't have a profit motive in getting people healthcare. It only has a social outcome motive. How can it do the most good with the money it's been able to pull together. The health-care industry, on the other hand, has only a profit motive. It doesn't care about social good at all, all it cares about is another line of coke snorted by a hooker off the cock of a viagra'd-up withered old asshole on his fifth yacht off the coast of Grand Cayman.

Let's put this in a simple analogy form you'll understand, shall we? Repair Facility A (the national insurance system) is handed an arbitrary amount of Resource Units, which are good for repairing Damaged Robots. Some repairs may cost more than others, but Repair Facility A, being the only game in town, has a high degree of ability to muscle around the dealers and manufacturers to make sure he's getting the best parts for the job as cheaply as possible. Repair Facility A's only programmed motivation is to maximize the amount of damage it can repair with the RUs it has. It has otherwise no care whatsoever for the RUs.

Repair Facilities B through Z, on the other hand, have ganged up and prevented Repair Facility A from being built. Now, Repair Facility B through Z are defective; instead of repairing damaged robots, their sole goal is to hoard RUs. They do not intrinsically care about repairing robots, but because they are repair facilities (and repairing damaged robots is what they do,) they start telling undamaged robots that if they pay them their RUs in advance, they'll be repaired for free if they get damaged for less than it would cost if they didn't pay in advance. So the robots like this sort of deal, and they start paying the Repair Facilities.

The only problem is that as soon as the robot has paid the Repair Facility, the Repair Facility has achieved it's goal; it has RUs in it's stockpile. Now, it's only goal is to hoard RUs, so when a robot gets damaged, it gets further from it's goal because it has to spend RUs repairing that damaged robot. Ah-hah! So now they decide to get Law-Bots involved, to draft up huge and complicated contracts with ridiculous amounts of loopholes and technicalities. Eventually, the situation is that they can arbitrarily decide to repair a robot or not, regardless of whether that robot has paid them the RUs. The only consideration they need to take into account is the number of RUs they hoard, so the equation becomes whether the cost of repairing the damage will be less than or greater than the cost of paying a law-bot to fight the demand for repair in front of a court.

I hope you understood that, I even went to the trouble of involving robots. I wish I had the skill to draw you a visual aid. Suffice to say the point is the motives involved are different, and the profit motive does not apply to such a necessity as staying alive. It's not something you can choose to do without, so they have you by the balls.
Emergency rooms are required by law to treat people regardless of their ability to pay, certain charities make donations to help poor people with healthcare, and one of those charities is the government through social security, medicade and medicare, but we have to decide on how much we want to spend on healthcare as a societal good as opposed to an individual expense. I don't thinkoney we can spend unlimited amounts of money, there is a limit, whether it is what the individual can afford or society as a whole, we must prioritize here as well, the choice is whether we prioritize as individual patients or as a society, I think we do some of both.
Emergency Rooms are required by law to stabilize people regardless of their ability to pay, but no more. If you come in with a pair of hacked-off arms and absolutely penniless, they'll cauterize it, but that's all they're required to do. They're not required to find you a prosthesis. If you come in in a state of cardiac distress, they're required to prevent you from dying, but they're not required to treat your problems.

Charities are bullshit, and social security and medicare/medicaid are not charities, they're woefully-thin-spread vital government social functions.

Ideally, citizens should be taxed for healthcare, that tax should go into a sort of national healthcare assurance program (go ahead and just co-opt Medicare, since it's a name Americans already react well to,) and be sitting there. When people need something taken care of, they get treated, and only when the really crazy shit comes up do they start to think about prioritizing the good of the many over the good of the one. They might have to - if someone comes down with something that can be cured but it'll cost six billion dollars to do so, you have to look at how many other people you can treat with those six billion. If you have enough of a monetary surpluss to do it, go ahead, but if not... You might have to compromise somewhere.

On the other hand, let's look at the way it is now. The healthcare industry prioritizes keeping your money over spending any of it to help you. If at all possible it will avoid paying your claim, and it doesn't care about how much social good it causes, or personal good it creates for you. All it cares about is hoarding your money.

they prioritize as a society, they tax that society more thus leaving the individual with less money to spend on his own healthcare on that part which the government won't cover. There are always trade offs and limits on resources whether they are of the government or of the individual.
PAY ATTENTION, MORON! The point of a national healthcare system is so that you don't have to spend a dime out of pocket on your own healthcare. Get the snuffles? They take care of it. Take one of those "world's most shocking, can't believe he survived that" headers off a a bridge into a barge full of steel tubes and I-Beams, get every limb in your body broken and then a gigantic blade falls on you severing your hand at the wrist yet still you survive? They take care of it.

Healthcare is a seller's market by nature. They can crank the cost up to whatever and make you pay if at all within your means because the alternative is failboat. However, by condensing the buying power to a few sources, the sellers find the market reversed on them; now they have to sell at a price acceptable to the guy who's buying, because if they don't someone else will. Condense it down to 1, and suddenly everything becomes sane and clear, especially in comparison to what nonsense we have now.
I think tax money that is not spent towards a legitimate government responsibility designed to benefit society as a whole, can be considered stolen money. I think there should be a Contitutional limit on the percentage of one's income government can tax, and if it wants to increase revenue, it should do so by fostering economic growth rather than by taking a greater slice of one's income. Now as a German, you should know what real racism is, and Hitler is not largely regarded as infamous for his tax cuts, so the Tea Party and the Nazi Party obviously don't belong in the same category.
Is there an applause smiley? I gotta give you props guy, that was an amazingly non sequitor red-herring segue. No? okay, second-best to a :golfclap: - :wanker: . Let me go down it by the numbers.

1: Exactly what the hell do you imagine they're doing with that tax money, spending it on hookers and blow? (Last I heard, that was the GOP.) Newsflash, stop the presses - governments spend money on projects supposedly in the best interest of the taxpayers. They don't always make the best decisions (corruption is a problem, yes,) but as a percentage of the whole the truly egregious things (bridge to nowhere) are vanishingly small. A lot of stuff is marginal, like making sure one's own state gets a lot of highways and education money, but isn't that why elected officials are supposed to do anyway?

2: You're a fucking moron, having taken leave of your senses, if you think the idea of a constitutionally-mandated cap on the amount of money which may be taxed as a percentage is a good idea. You familiar with California's current financial situation in requiring a ridiculous majority to levy taxes but allowing joe average to demand something be written into law without provisions for how to pay for it? Yeah, this is that bad. Might even be worse.

3: How in the world do you get from your retarded political views on socioeconomics to Hitler? What is this, a "Psych! Heil Hitler!" Are you going to start shooting people next? Or are you just the cpi fail at using the enter key?
A certain level of racism is a given, and frankly is not worth addressing, as the cost of remedying it involves the loss of certain individual freedoms such as the freedom of speech, freedom of association and so forth.
You have the individual freedom to swing your fist 'round like a punch-drunken pugilist. Your right to swing your fist stops at another man's nose.

Racism can be just as harmful as a fist swung into a nose, but it's far, far more insidious. It can - and does - engender hopeless, frustration and anger in it's victims, even if the perpetrators never lay a finger on the victim. It's effects are very real, simply intangible.

Just because something may be inevitable doesn't mean it's not worth fighting against, or doing something about.
Everybody faces some sort of prejudice or another in his life, I do, we all learn to live with it and make the best with what we got, the point is to keep it down, the overt harmful prejudice that prevents groups of people from succeeding in life regardless of talent - as had happened in Germany, and to a lesser extend in America at times past. I think the level of prejudice has dropped to a level where most blacks can simply ignore it and grow some thick skin rather than suspecting racial discrimination at every corner. If a person feels racism is holding him back, he can simply try harder and if he tries hard enough, he can succeed. Complaining about racism past a certain point is a crutch, because it removes the responsibility for success from the individual as he can always blame the "other" for not getting that job and so forth.
Wow! I'm impressed. Gotta give you props, I didn't think anyone was actually asinine enough to deliver a genuine, honest-to-goodness "try harder or cry moar" rugged individualism screed.

I think you're a fucking semiprivledged to privledged white anglo-saxon (probably protestant, at least nominally,) most-likely suburban or housing-development moron who doesn't have the faintest fucking idea what being any race other than white is like, and probably not even a good idea of what someone of another race even looks like outside of ridiculous caricatures. I'll admit, I don't know what it's like to be anything but white either, but I'm not such a fucking moron that I'll tell another race to "grow a thick skin" if they don't like what's being said about them for no good reason.

Racism can never be completely eliminated, people will keep their thoughts to themselves, they might not hire someone because they are black but they will never admit as much, and there is nothing the German government can do about it, and the loss of freedom caused by hiring quotas just aren't worth the trouble for the meager benefit they would deliver. Freedom once lost, is hard to regain, as a German you should know that.
You have this bizzare fetish for Germany, you know that? Now you're espousing the idea that blacks and other minorities should just shut up and take the effects of the silent-but-insidious form of racism that winds up with resumes being filed in the circular bin because the name on it sounds "darkie," because any regulation on it would represent an unacceptable loss of the freedom of someone to... Fuck over someone in a very real and tangible way?
CaptainChewbacca wrote:Dude...

Way to overwork a metaphor Shadow. I feel really creeped out now.
I am an artist, metaphorical mind-fucks are my medium.
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Re: Tea Party Leader Mocks NAACP "Coloreds" In Online Screed

Post by Thanas »

ShadowDragon8685 wrote:And to think Thanas accuses me of hyperventilating!
Yes. Yes I do, because you are somebody who can't argue his way out of a paperbag but rages against weak targets as soon as you get an inkling of what is going on.
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Re: Tea Party Leader Mocks NAACP "Coloreds" In Online Screed

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ShadowDragon, note that he doesn't say he wants a total tax burden of 25% ; He wants the government to requisition 25% of the national income in taxes, which translates to a much higher tax burden (tax only targets income, while national income includes investment, government spending, net export, etc.). The US spent about 25% GDP in 2009, so it means our boy here is perfectly satisfied with that spending, only he'd like to raise taxes to cover it without defficit.

He said it himself, it would be completely fair. I don't see a problem with his position.


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Re: Tea Party Leader Mocks NAACP "Coloreds" In Online Screed

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He is very confused on that point. Sometimes he writes 25% of income, sometimes 25% of GDP. But then, even the second one is almost achieved by the US (as repeatedly shown).

I always wonder about the people screaming about high taxes killing companies, competitiveness, the economy, etc. There are countries out there that have a LOT higher taxes that still manage to be globally competitive, etc - something that is supposedly impossible.

My impression is that higher taxes might lead to short-term damage to the economy, but in the long-run is almost irrelevant.

Hell, just looking at the current financial crisis, while the US is groaning under high unemployment, etc. caused by the minor drop in GDP, we here in Germany had a drop in GDP quite a lot bigger, while the unemployment rate is pretty much untouched.

Why? Government intervention aimed at keeping people employed, keeping companies alive through loans, etc.
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Re: Tea Party Leader Mocks NAACP "Coloreds" In Online Screed

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D.Turtle wrote:He is very confused on that point. Sometimes he writes 25% of income, sometimes 25% of GDP. But then, even the second one is almost achieved by the US (as repeatedly shown).
There's three basic measures of national income, that's GDP (Gross Domestic Product), GNP (Gross National Product which is essentially GDP + trade balance) and Net National Income.

Since most people mean GDP, I assumed he did, too, just didn't know the correct terms (yet claims his economic proposals should be given the time of day by anybody, go figure...)
D.Turtle wrote:I always wonder about the people screaming about high taxes killing companies, competitiveness, the economy, etc. There are countries out there that have a LOT higher taxes that still manage to be globally competitive, etc - something that is supposedly impossible.

My impression is that higher taxes might lead to short-term damage to the economy, but in the long-run is almost irrelevant.
That's not true, either: taxes can and do shape a country's economy both short and long term. The biggest impact, though, comes through sales taxes, rather than individual and corporate income tax, since they directly impact demand. Sometimes, a quirky tax structure leads to some really odd consequences, too, and of course taxes don't work in a vacuum, theyr interact with regulations, indirect payments and opportunity costs, etc.

The problem is, of course, that stability and good law should always be the first priority. For example, Sweden has really high taxes and lots of regs, but also well-streamlined procedures, so overall, setting up a business is pretty painless. It won't do you good if you have nice, low taxes but the expense of managing them is such that you can't hope to run a small company (because you spend your income on tax lawyers).

Low taxes does not equal easy to pay.
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JULY 20TH 1969 - The day the entire world was looking up

It suddenly struck me that that tiny pea, pretty and blue, was the Earth. I put up my thumb and shut one eye, and my thumb blotted out the planet Earth. I didn't feel like a giant. I felt very, very small.
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Signature dedicated to the greatest achievement of mankind.

MILDLY DERANGED PHYSICIST does not mind BREAKING the SOUND BARRIER, because it is INSURED. - Simon_Jester considering the problems of hypersonic flight for Team L.A.M.E.
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Re: Tea Party Leader Mocks NAACP "Coloreds" In Online Screed

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PeZook wrote:That's not true, either: taxes can and do shape a country's economy both short and long term. The biggest impact, though, comes through sales taxes, rather than individual and corporate income tax, since they directly impact demand. Sometimes, a quirky tax structure leads to some really odd consequences, too, and of course taxes don't work in a vacuum, theyr interact with regulations, indirect payments and opportunity costs, etc.

The problem is, of course, that stability and good law should always be the first priority. For example, Sweden has really high taxes and lots of regs, but also well-streamlined procedures, so overall, setting up a business is pretty painless. It won't do you good if you have nice, low taxes but the expense of managing them is such that you can't hope to run a small company (because you spend your income on tax lawyers).

Low taxes does not equal easy to pay.
Just to clarify: My point was, that even though tax rates should have an effect, if you look at the tax rates of various countries, my impression is, that the effect of those tax rates is so small as to be irrelevant in comparison to other factors. Hell, if you look at things like the Gini-index, lower taxes could even be a net negative for the economy in the long-run.

Basically, the economy is very complex, and lowering taxes is not guaranteed to help.
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Re: Tea Party Leader Mocks NAACP "Coloreds" In Online Screed

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D.Turtle wrote: Just to clarify: My point was, that even though tax rates should have an effect, if you look at the tax rates of various countries, my impression is, that the effect of those tax rates is so small as to be irrelevant in comparison to other factors. Hell, if you look at things like the Gini-index, lower taxes could even be a net negative for the economy in the long-run.
Thing is, most countries want a certain outcome rather than just good basic indicators - like trying to avoid the "nation of shopkeepers" problem. Or create one by outsourcing everything to China ;).

So...taxes are an essential part of these policies (not the only one, though, I agree). For example, you can protect domestic industry through tariffs, taxes, direct regulations, government spending or all of the above. A lot of states want their own industry, even if it's not competitive on the world stage, the most obvious example is the agricultural industry, which is maintaned by every state separately (since they'd like to be able to eat in case of war/catastrophe/global crisis).

Given time, the economy kind of "molds" itself to existing conditions. It's not tax levels per se, though, but more the tax structure, that influences it.
D.Turtle wrote:Basically, the economy is very complex, and lowering taxes is not guaranteed to help.
No argument there. If somebody claims he devised a single-sentence solution to all economic woes in five minutes spent on the crapper, he's...well, full of crap ;)
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JULY 20TH 1969 - The day the entire world was looking up

It suddenly struck me that that tiny pea, pretty and blue, was the Earth. I put up my thumb and shut one eye, and my thumb blotted out the planet Earth. I didn't feel like a giant. I felt very, very small.
- NEIL ARMSTRONG, MISSION COMMANDER, APOLLO 11

Signature dedicated to the greatest achievement of mankind.

MILDLY DERANGED PHYSICIST does not mind BREAKING the SOUND BARRIER, because it is INSURED. - Simon_Jester considering the problems of hypersonic flight for Team L.A.M.E.
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