Intifada 3? Kidnapped Israeli citizens might be a flashpoint

[Thanas]

Israel just killed 7 Germans in an airstrike.

Meanwhile, the stupid asshole of an ambassador they got in Germany just said the protests against Israels actions reminded him of 1938 where jews were openly hunted in the streets in Germany. He can fuck right off.

This is especially funny because Israeli civilians kept chanting "death to all arabs" on live German television.

[eyl]

Israel just killed 7 Germans in an airstrike.

Meanwhile, the stupid asshole of an ambassador they got in Germany just said the protests against Israels actions reminded him of 1938 where jews were openly hunted in the streets in Germany. He can fuck right off.

This is especially funny because Israeli civilians kept chanting "death to all arabs" on live German television.

Well, he's probably talking about this

BERLIN — An angry mob gathered on Berlin’s famed Kurfürstendamm avenue Thursday. Draped in Palestinian flags and shaking their fists in rage, they chanted in German, “Jude, Jude feiges Schwein! Komm heraus und kämpf allein!” (“Jew, Jew, cowardly swine, come out and fight on your own!”)

Earlier last week in Dortmund and Frankfurt anti-Israel protester chanted, “Hamas Hamas Juden ins gas!” (“Hamas Hamas Jews to the gas!”). On Friday, a 200-strong mob in Essen chimed in, “Scheiss Juden!” (“Jewish shit”)

Granted, a pretty small mob (the latter one, at least, I don't see numbers for the other two)

[Thanas]

So you got a few hundred descendants of Palestinians being angry while their relatives are being bombed and Israelis are chanting death to all arabs. Big whoop and certainly does not justify playing the Nazi card again.

And it is especially bad to do so when you just killed 7 of our citizens in an airstrike (civilians, no less).

[Grumman]

Big whoop and certainly does not justify playing the Nazi card again.

The protesters played it first. If German protesters chant "Jews to the gas!" you don't get to turn around and pretend it's not a reference to the Holocaust.

[eyl]

Still, the ambassador's comment is over the top.

[Omeganian]

So you got a few hundred descendants of Palestinians being angry while their relatives are being bombed and Israelis are chanting death to all arabs. Big whoop and certainly does not justify playing the Nazi card again.

And it is especially bad to do so when you just killed 7 of our citizens in an airstrike (civilians, no less).

Is it definite that he made the statement after receiving the news?

[eyl]

And in the interest of comic relief:

If the alert sounds when you're in the bathroom, what would YOU do?

(seriously, this happened to me today. Twice)

[Thanas]

So you got a few hundred descendants of Palestinians being angry while their relatives are being bombed and Israelis are chanting death to all arabs. Big whoop and certainly does not justify playing the Nazi card again.

And it is especially bad to do so when you just killed 7 of our citizens in an airstrike (civilians, no less).

Is it definite that he made the statement after receiving the news?

No and I don't think it was made after receiving the news. However, even if the news came later, it would still be an extraordinarily dumb thing to say. Back in 1938 the whole German society conspired to hunt jews. Now, nothing of the sort is happening, in fact our security forces are stepping up protection of jews and their property.

[Omeganian]

And in the interest of comic relief:

If the alert sounds when you're in the bathroom, what would YOU do?

(seriously, this happened to me today. Twice)

I just stay there. The bathroom is positioned safely enough geographically.

So you got a few hundred descendants of Palestinians being angry while their relatives are being bombed and Israelis are chanting death to all arabs. Big whoop and certainly does not justify playing the Nazi card again.

And it is especially bad to do so when you just killed 7 of our citizens in an airstrike (civilians, no less).

Is it definite that he made the statement after receiving the news?

No and I don't think it was made after receiving the news. However, even if the news came later, it would still be an extraordinarily dumb thing to say.

If you can offer a better and more obvious analogy, I would be more than happy to hear it. So far, the similarities are sufficiently disturbing.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... flict.html

Back in 1938 the whole German society conspired to hunt jews. Now, nothing of the sort is happening, in fact our security forces are stepping up protection of jews and their property.

Must be less visible than the hostility.

[Thanas]

Must be less visible than the hostility.

And yet, even the horrible DailyFail did note:

Police in Berlin have banned race-hate slogans that reappeared after being originally used in the days of the Nazis.

Officers had to protect an Israeli tourist at the weekend after protesters spotted his yarmulke (a small, round cap) and reportedly charged towards him shouting ‘Jew! We’ll get you.’

Fourteen people were arrested in the western city of Essen on suspicion of planning an attack on a synagogue. The imam of a Berlin mosque is under investigation after allegedly calling on Muslims to murder ‘Zionist Jews’.

See if you can spot the difference to 1938, in both scale and cooperation of authorities.

[Omeganian]

Must be less visible than the hostility.

And yet, even the horrible DailyFail did note:

Police in Berlin have banned race-hate slogans that reappeared after being originally used in the days of the Nazis.

Officers had to protect an Israeli tourist at the weekend after protesters spotted his yarmulke (a small, round cap) and reportedly charged towards him shouting ‘Jew! We’ll get you.’

Fourteen people were arrested in the western city of Essen on suspicion of planning an attack on a synagogue. The imam of a Berlin mosque is under investigation after allegedly calling on Muslims to murder ‘Zionist Jews’.

See if you can spot the difference to 1938, in both scale and cooperation of authorities.

There are differences. And there are similarities. And everyone has his own reasons to see one or the other.

[Thanas]

So wait, a few hundred people protesting against Israel is cause to call analogies to the Nazi terror regime?
Heck, that is less people than the actual Neonazis of Germany put on the street.
This is completely overblown.

[Omeganian]

So wait, a few hundred people protesting against Israel is cause to call analogies to the Nazi terror regime?

Any number of people officially calling for the extermination of Jews can be compared to Nazism. Variations in quantity are secondary.

This is completely overblown.

And your reaction isn't?

[Thanas]

And your reaction isn't?

Given that I have not said "This situation totally reminds me of the ethnic cleansing and lynch mobs that were the prerequisite for the holocaust", no.

[Thanas]

Meanwhile, the Israelis told civilians to take shelter in a specific building, then hit that specific building with a strike. Good going there.

And being male and unarmed apparently now gets you shot by Israeli snipers. lnk.

[eyl]

Meanwhile, the Israelis told civilians to take shelter in a specific building, then hit that specific building with a strike. Good going there.

Cite?

[Thanas]

Meanwhile, the Israelis told civilians to take shelter in a specific building, then hit that specific building with a strike. Good going there.

Cite?

New York Times

On Monday night, a strike hit an eight-story apartment building in downtown Gaza City — an area where Israeli officials had urged Gazans to take shelter. The building collapsed as rescue crews were inside, killing more people. The death toll, at least 13, was still being tallied.

[Ace Pace]

Meanwhile, the Israelis told civilians to take shelter in a specific building, then hit that specific building with a strike. Good going there.

And being male and unarmed apparently now gets you shot by Israeli snipers. lnk.

Hell knows I despise this fighting probably more than you do (as someone who has to live with the affects) but lets have fun blaming the other side (*).

UNRWA finds more rockets in schools.

Hamas "gets off" the blame by being a pretty blatant terrorist organisation, while the IDF is held up to western standards (and rightly so).


(*) At no point am I saying the IDF should fight in a similar fashion to Hamas, just that this is simply war and not one where either side really cares about rules that much.



P.S. Can a mod split the Gaza war off into another thread? This thread started off talking about kidnapping and the populist Arab uprising, which is in time-out due to the fighting but will flare up again in a week or two after the cease-fire. It's actually still ongoing, but no media has any time to report anything, so it can't gain any traction.

[Thanas]

If one side wants to have the moral high ground then one side should not stoop to the level of the other, especially if it is completely unnecessary.

[Ace Pace]

Back to the original thread topic, one of the more interesting reactions has been the wider Israeli approval/dis-approval of the situation and the Israeli Arab community response.

Rather than collecting links, I'll try to summarise the situation.

Israeli Arabs are pretty much against the continuing ground invasion, but during the air-strikes were quiet. I am not sure why, maybe because they understand that the tunnels are justifiably considered a strategic threat. Note that the riots that happened during that time where not against the Gaza air strikes, but against the racist treatment inside Israel.

Israeli Jews is a far more horrible story. This has been a full flowering for the racist right wing, to an extent that the right wing politicians are trying to calm the flames and lock up the more extreme protesters. Multiple events have been recorded where right wingers have violently attacked left wing citizens protesting against the war. My FB feed and I imagine many others (alongside mainstream media) is pretty much talking non stop about two things, the actual combat and the treatment of left wingers during the protests.

[eyl]

As I read that they were urged to take shelter in downtown Gaza, not that specific building: had the latter been the case I'd expect much more casualties.

[Thanas]

Back to the original thread topic, one of the more interesting reactions has been the wider Israeli approval/dis-approval of the situation and the Israeli Arab community response.

Rather than collecting links, I'll try to summarise the situation.

Israeli Arabs are pretty much against the continuing ground invasion, but during the air-strikes were quiet. I am not sure why, maybe because they understand that the tunnels are justifiably considered a strategic threat. Note that the riots that happened during that time where not against the Gaza air strikes, but against the racist treatment inside Israel.

Israeli Jews is a far more horrible story. This has been a full flowering for the racist right wing, to an extent that the right wing politicians are trying to calm the flames and lock up the more extreme protesters. Multiple events have been recorded where right wingers have violently attacked left wing citizens protesting against the war. My FB feed and I imagine many others (alongside mainstream media) is pretty much talking non stop about two things, the actual combat and the treatment of left wingers during the protests.

It's a shame that Haaretz has gone to paywall status. Is there another reputable Israeli newspaper publishing in English online?

[Ace Pace]

It's a shame that Haaretz has gone to paywall status. Is there another reputable Israeli newspaper publishing in English online?

Uh...I'm not sure. I pretty much ignore the Haaretz paywall on most subjects in Hebrew, where it only covers 50% of the articles and not all of them like the english version. I could send you digests of stuff if you PM/Email me specific titles.

I have no idea if they have an english edition, but Makor Rishon (First Edition) which is a religious-zionist paper has some amazing writers, where like Haaretz, the agenda is obvious but interesting to read. Think of it as the unaplogetic polar opposite of Haaretz.

[Thanas]

Well, mostly I would be interested in what you said, the attitudes of Israeli society. My greatest fear is that the religious nutjobs will outshout/outbreed the others.

[Ace Pace]

Well, mostly I would be interested in what you said, the attitudes of Israeli society. My greatest fear is that the religious nutjobs will outshout/outbreed the others.

This is actually a complex question, because when you say religious nutjobs, you're actually talking about 3-4 different groups who have often competing goals.

The first and most commonly known is the Haredi Jews. These have little to no interest in the conflict, or the nation and just want to live and pray and study Torah. Most of the country finds them despicable (As worse as Arabs in some cases) and it's a rather complex subject in the mainstream society.

The other, which I'm guessing you're referring to, is the Religious Zionist Rightwing Settlers. These are the "nutjobs" who go and cut down Arab olive trees and stuff like that. This group is indeed breeding fast and in many terms is the true "threat" to the peace initiatives, but in many cases they're actually decent citizens.

The third, which is frequently confused with the former, is the Religious Zionist Settlers. Where the main difference is that despite wanting the "Whole Israel" (without Jordan), they're on the whole, pretty rational about it and are willing to settle. These for example are the majority of the old Mafdal and other religious parties that nowdays make up an ignored segment of the Beit Yehudi (Jewish Home) party. They're also mostly very educated (highest proportion of degree holders IIRC) and are second generation immigrants from the West.

[Warning to the local readers, huge generalisation to follow]
The fourth and I consider the worst are the Masorati right wingers, who are basically the Israeli version of the American Redneck. Uneducated, quasi-religious (and mostly follow the populist Rabbis rather than the intelligent ones) and very much nationalist. This is the group driving around and beating up left wingers and chanting "Death to Arabs", not any of the prior groups.

At some level I made some generalisations but this is pretty much the current situation with the "right wing nutjobs" in Israel, where as usual, there are more sub trends than there are people.


Meanwhile I'll go back to looking outside my window to see interceptions.