Ohio Gov. Kasich Signs 20-Week Abortion Limit

[Dragon Angel]

Separation of church and state is so regional it's farce. There are still public schools where morning prayer to Jesus takes place. Don't be an open Atheist accused of a crime in a jury trial! And actually, yes, there are still movements to teach creationism "Intelligent Design" alongside not-stupid/crazy Bible Bullshit.

Yeah, hence my statement of "for the most part". Although yeah we do have so much to be left desired. At least on the federal level it's much better.

Or ... may not be for much longer, knowing the incoming President, Congress, and possibly Justices.

[Elheru Aran]

As far as abortion goes:

One thing that always seems to get overlooked is that pro-choice people, for the most part, don't WANT to abort viable fetuses. The fact of the matter is that nobody LIKES killing something which could very well come out a cute little baby. Pro-choice tends to get painted as a bunch of barbarians with baby bits on their spears or whatever, but the fact of the matter is that it's not about killing babies; it's about giving the mother a choice. If she feels that her life would go better without the fetus coming to term, then that's her decision to make, and I guarantee that it's not a decision made lightly by most women who go through with it.

The sad, blinding irony is that pro-lifers also tend to be anti-contraception and anti-sex education. You'd think having more rubbers and pills available, and knowing that sticking tab A into slot B without appropriate prophylactic measures is likely to result in multiplication, would be common sense... surely it's better for a little fucking to occur than to have *both* the fucking and abortions?

[The Romulan Republic]

Most of the anti-abortion crowd are basing their objections on religious doctrine, of course, which generally doesn't leave much room for compromise or pragmatism.

But yes, that's the main thing that pisses me off about most of the anti-abortion folks. They also oppose everything that would actually reduce the number of abortions (and reduce a lot of other human suffering in the process). It would be amusing how they shoot themselves in the foot, if it weren't so sad.

[Gandalf]

It's made more difficult when people are sheltering those defined as criminals.

We regard people on the Underground Railroad and who sheltered Jews during WWII as heroes, but they were criminals in those times and places. The same tactics that allowed them what success they have also allow current criminals and terrorist to evade capture.

I get it. The US has a large, radicalised population within its borders, and its apparently better to compromise to them and their threats as opposed to getting to the root of the problem.

Surely the US could have a war on... something?

Good thing people didn't apply that standard to any other civil rights argument. Maybe black people would only vote in three out of five elections, but only if their owner allowed it.

That sort of thing did in fact occur back when whether or not Africans were as human as Europeans was under debate - it's just that that question was settle centuries ago. When the fetus becomes human and entitled to rights is not a settled question.

I was thinking in the nineteen sixties, back when there was more than some strife over the issue.