UN warns of 'full-scale war' as Israel Gaza conflict escalates

[Ralin]

And also it would be getting pretty close to the beginning of the Left Behind series.

[Broomstick]

If anything, I'd expect Russia to be opposed to Israel. Certainly, historically, Russia (and the Soviet Union) has had no love for the Jews.

[Ralin]

If anything, I'd expect Russia to be opposed to Israel. Certainly, historically, Russia (and the Soviet Union) has had no love for the Jews.

They certainly have no love for Muslims now.

I'm seeing all sorts of ways that could spiral into a disaster.

[Ralin]

The problem with that line of reasoning is that the Vatican City has a Pope - someone who, at least for the first few centuries, was considered THE authority and spoke with the Voice of God. The Jews haven't had that in thousands of years, not since the last prophet Malachi about 2500 years ago (if that prophet was even an individual - the details are murky) and not in the sense of "centralized religious authority" since the fall of the Second Temple in 79 AD. For the next 1900+ years the Jews spread over three continents (and in the last few centuries to an additional 3) and the practice of the religion was such that no central authority was needed or even existed. That is why there are so many different Jewish "traditions", sects, groups, etc. Judaism as it has been practiced for the last 19 centuries does not have a central authority, does not require one, and has long allowed for differing practices all of which can be described as "Judaism".

Belated, but the Pope has never had that authority within the Catholic Church whether they claim it or not, and would probably have even less so in this scenario. Christianity has never had one central religious authority and has always been split up into countless sects, traditions and sub-religions.

In other words: Judaism and Christianity are not comparable in that manner, and Judaism has been fractured into divergent and squabbling sects half again as long as Christianity has even existed (about 3,000 years since the United Kingdom split into the Kingdom of Israel and the Kingdom of Judah - the Jews have if anything become ever less united since then).

They're comparable. Yeah they don't map perfectly, but comparisons between religions never do and if Christianity (and Islam) aren't appropriate religions to compare Judaism to I don't know what are. Christianity has been fractured into divergent and squabbling sects for as long as it has existed and if anything it's less diverse now than it was when early on. "Half again as long" isn't especially relevant when we're already talking about a couple thousand years.

Anyway, like I said before, I agree Israel doesn't represent all of Judaism. But they sure have a pretty credible claim to saying that they're more right in saying they are than other Jewish communities. In exactly the same way that most of us would find the Vatican a more credible authority on what constitutes Christianity than the Southern Baptists or the Amish even if we think they're both delusional and full of shit when you get down to it.

[Broomstick]

Anyway, like I said before, I agree Israel doesn't represent all of Judaism. But they sure have a pretty credible claim to saying that they're more right in saying they are than other Jewish communities. In exactly the same way that most of us would find the Vatican a more credible authority on what constitutes Christianity than the Southern Baptists or the Amish even if we think they're both delusional and full of shit when you get down to it.

I disagree. I would the Pope and the Vatican are the authorities for Catholicism, but not for Christianity as a whole. For Southern Baptist issues I would look to the Southern Baptists, not Rome.

[Ralin]

I disagree. I would the Pope and the Vatican are the authorities for Catholicism, but not for Christianity as a whole. For Southern Baptist issues I would look to the Southern Baptists, not Rome.

Which raises the question of how we can come to any sort of conclusion about what Christianity is and what Christians believe, even in broad terms.

Note I'm saying more authority or credibility, not being the authority. In the same way that an anti-Zionist collection of synagogues in New York and a Zionist sect in Israel both have more credibility than me declaring right now that I'm a Jew whos is a member of the Synagogue of Anti-Semites who worship Haman like in that South Park episode. Which I don't think would be taken very seriously. And with good reason.

[Gandalf]

Which raises the question of how we can come to any sort of conclusion about what Christianity is and what Christians believe, even in broad terms.

Regrettably we really can't, aside from the most basic and vague idea that Jesus was either divine or divine adjacent, and that he died and came back.

Beyond that there's two millenia or so of revision, interpretation, and inconsistent implementation. So while "Christian" is a good term for a broad tent of ideas, or a societal label, it's not the easiest to use.

[EnterpriseSovereign]

Looks like a change in Israeli leadership:

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s opponents announced they have reached a deal to form a new governing coalition, paving the way for the ouster of the longtime Israeli leader.

The dramatic announcement by opposition leader Yair Lapid and his main coalition partner, Naftali Bennett, came moments before a midnight deadline and prevented the country from plunging into what would have been its fifth consecutive election in just over two years.

In a statement on Twitter, Lapid said he had informed the country’s president of the deal.

“This government will work for all the citizens of Israel, those that voted for it and those that didn’t. It will do everything to unite Israeli society,” he said.

Under the agreement, Lapid and Bennett will split the job of prime minister in a rotation.

Bennett will serve the first two years, while Lapid is to serve the final two years.

The historic deal also includes a small Islamist party, the United Arab List, which would make it the first Arab party ever to be part of a governing coalition.

The agreement still needs to be approved by the Knesset, or parliament, in a vote that is expected to take place early next week.

If it goes through, Lapid and his diverse array of partners will end the record-setting 12-year rule of Netanyahu.

Netanyahu, desperate to remain in office while he fights corruption charges, is expected to do everything possible in the coming days to prevent the new coalition from taking power.

If he fails, he will be pushed into the opposition.

Netanyahu opponents reach coalition deal to oust Israeli PM.

[Tribble]

Looks like a change in Israeli leadership:

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s opponents announced they have reached a deal to form a new governing coalition, paving the way for the ouster of the longtime Israeli leader.

The dramatic announcement by opposition leader Yair Lapid and his main coalition partner, Naftali Bennett, came moments before a midnight deadline and prevented the country from plunging into what would have been its fifth consecutive election in just over two years.

In a statement on Twitter, Lapid said he had informed the country’s president of the deal.

“This government will work for all the citizens of Israel, those that voted for it and those that didn’t. It will do everything to unite Israeli society,” he said.

Under the agreement, Lapid and Bennett will split the job of prime minister in a rotation.

Bennett will serve the first two years, while Lapid is to serve the final two years.

The historic deal also includes a small Islamist party, the United Arab List, which would make it the first Arab party ever to be part of a governing coalition.

The agreement still needs to be approved by the Knesset, or parliament, in a vote that is expected to take place early next week.

If it goes through, Lapid and his diverse array of partners will end the record-setting 12-year rule of Netanyahu.

Netanyahu, desperate to remain in office while he fights corruption charges, is expected to do everything possible in the coming days to prevent the new coalition from taking power.

If he fails, he will be pushed into the opposition.

Netanyahu opponents reach coalition deal to oust Israeli PM.

Now round 2 of the fun begins.

I wonder hard he’s gonna fight to stay in power this time?

What do you think are the odds he might try an outright coup like a certain ex-president if it really looks like he’s gonna lose?

[Broomstick]

Who knows?

My take - which might be too simplistic or just outright wrong so please correct me gently if you feel a need to do so, because I'm trying to understand this - is that Netanyahu stayed in power largely by saying "let me run things and I'll keep you safe". This recently blew up in his face with Hamas launching several thousand rockets into Israel. Despite the Iron Dome working pretty well, this makes the Israelis feel UNsafe. Enough of them feel UNsafe now (on top of those that already didn't like/opposed Netanyahu because, like Trump, there were always a chunk of Israelis that disliked/hated him) that they are now reconsidering Netanyahu, hence this change at the top in the Israeli government.

Of course he's going to try to hold on to power. How that plays out I can't say because I frankly just don't know enough about the internal workings of the Israeli government at that level.

[Rogue 9]

They haven't had new elections since the start of the rocket attacks, though; this is entirely a revolt on the part of Likud's former coalition partners as I understand it. The prospective new Prime Minister used to be Netanyahu's chief of staff.