Stormbringer wrote:
The WTO is not an impartial body and the odds are stacked against the US because we aren't popular.
Arhh poor you, the WTO has an impartial appeals board with 7 experts in international law who are unconnected with any nation.
Not to mention that while you would like to believe everyone is ganging up on you it simply isn't true, the US was in breach and they were brought to book, just like the EU has been before.
Now prove that the WTO is or has been grossly unfair and biased or retract the statement.
No, they don't. Unless they completely retreat from the WTo, of course.
If they're stupid enough to sanction us that might happen.
No because even the US government isn't that stupid.
And thus in one stunning move President Stormbringer brought down global trade and cast the world back into the 19th century.
It's the Europeans and the WTO that are for sanctioning the US. Seems like it's you guys that are the ones that are trying to do that to me.
No we are offsetting the unfair trade boosts you are giving to your companies, dear god you did read up on the subject right?
As if what the European Union is perfectly okay? And we get punished for less. That's like seeing it's okay to embezzle a million but steal ten bucks from the register and you go to jail. You'e capital H Hypocrite.
Show me what much worse trade crime the EU is comitting, come on don't just make vague references actually back your ranting up.
Read the damn thread. Airbus has had all it's new jet liner completely subsidised by the various governments. That seems to be far in excess of mere tax breaks to me, but that might just be the sanity talking.
Clearly you don't even bother reading what I've said so why bother.
No we are offsetting the unfair trade boosts you are giving to your companies, dear god you did read up on the subject right?
Oh yes because a tax break is the same as paying for all the expenses of a company.
It isn't a tax break it is an illegal trade boost that can grant your companies up to a 15% boost in profits from exports, that is subsidising exports and that is illegal and you have also yet to prove that any wrong doing went on in the airbus affair, my cursory examination reveals that the US whined, was presented with facts and then dropped the matter - this tells us the EU was doing nothing wrong.
Read the damn thread. Airbus has had all it's new jet liner completely subsidised by the various governments. That seems to be far in excess of mere tax breaks to me, but that might just be the sanity talking.
Clearly you don't even bother reading what I've said so why bother.
I assume you are talking about the A380 if so, the EU loans only make up 33% which is legal and they are only loans and the loans were not shown to be illegal even when the US examined the books.
The prototype first (Boeing Model 367-80) flew on 15 July 1954, and the initial aircraft off the production line were military KC-135A flight refueling tanker/transports.
Yes, it was, but it was BOUGHT by the US military after they saw the 707 as a good aircraft to conversion to tanker status. As previously stated, the 707 was a HUGE gamble by Boeing. People were still leery of the jet engine, and not necessarily willing to accept it offhand.
Boeing designed the aircraft on it's own, and Boeing isn't a government subsidized corporation.
Shinova wrote:Me thinks Europe is happily eager to screw itself over.
Why?, the US isn't that bothered they have admitted that the EU is within its rights to do as it may do if the US don't change the offending laws within the allowed time.
Shinova wrote:Me thinks Europe is happily eager to screw itself over.
Why?, the US isn't that bothered they have admitted that the EU is within its rights to do as it may do if the US don't change the offending laws within the allowed time.
Stormbringer and others have NOT been talking about the LEGALITY of the EU's actions. They're (EU) perfectly fine to do what they wish.
It's their HYPOCRISY that Storm and others are talking about. You know, government subsidies, etc.
I have to read up more on the tax breaks before I can comment on the US side, but we're talking about hypocrisy, not legality. And the US is also allowed to whatever it wishes to help its economy, not just the EU.
Shinova wrote:Also I haven't seen anything about the US openly demanding that some EU countries change their economic policies.
Now what gives the EU the special right to dictate American economic policies in return?
You mean like the entire deal over the Banana trade which the US was going on about, or the deal with the hormone treated beef for which the US imposed sanctions on the EU for, at least the EU has a legitimate reason for that (health concerns, although I'm not convinced) the US export rigging and steel tariffs are blatant protectionism.
The US also demanded certain things within regard to airbus but settled down when they saw everything was above board.
Also don't think the US doesn't do heavy farm subsidising, they aren't top but they still pledge $173 Billion over 10 years, which has upset Australian farmers no end.
You seem to think the US doesn't engage in these practices but they do, perhaps it doesn't get reported over there but if you look into the issue you would realise that complaining about anti free trade practices is what all the cool countries are doing these days.
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TheDarkling wrote:You seem to think the US doesn't engage in these practices but they do, perhaps it doesn't get reported over there but if you look into the issue you would realise that complaining about anti free trade practices is what all the cool countries are doing these days.
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Oh I know about US and its multinationals.
However, you should not ignore the EU side either.
TheDarkling wrote:You seem to think the US doesn't engage in these practices but they do, perhaps it doesn't get reported over there but if you look into the issue you would realise that complaining about anti free trade practices is what all the cool countries are doing these days.
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Oh I know about US and its multinationals.
However, you should not ignore the EU side either.
I don't, I am not running around accusing the US of being hypocrites (at least not over this issue) nor am I making out that the WTO is in the US's pocket or that any WTO ruling against the EU must be the result of bias and not the enforcement of fair trade practices.
The prototype first (Boeing Model 367-80) flew on 15 July 1954, and the initial aircraft off the production line were military KC-135A flight refueling tanker/transports.
Another more revelant quote from the same source:
The prototype jet airliner, built as a private venture by Boeing at a cost of more than $16,000,000
Boeing received NO funding from the government to develop this aircraft. They did it on their own despite the huge gamble of doing so. If the Air Force and the airlines had not been impressed by the final product, Boeing would have ended right then and there.
The most basic assumption about the world is that it does not contradict itself.
1. Boeing and other US companies get an illegal tax break on exports.
2. The EU has imposed sanctions untill the USD stops the tax break.
3. US subsidises much of it's industry, whether through direct subsidation or protectionism.
4. The EU provided loans within the legal limit to Airbus for the development of the A380.
5. US complained, was shown proof of it being legal, stopped complaining.
1. Boeing and other US companies get an illegal tax break on exports.
2. The EU has imposed sanctions untill the USD stops the tax break.
3. US subsidises much of it's industry, whether through direct subsidation or protectionism.
4. The EU provided loans within the legal limit to Airbus for the development of the A380.
5. US complained, was shown proof of it being legal, stopped complaining.
What else?
6.The EU is mean.
That seemed to be a main argument coming from some but apart from that I think you about summed it up.
Perhaps I could sum this up even more as to maybe get a consensus from the board.
1. The EU was wrong.
2. The US is throwing stones from glasses houses
3. The EU and US need to stop fucking the world economy over stupid pissing contests.
Can we settle on this and go home?
The most basic assumption about the world is that it does not contradict itself.
1. Contest an illegal US law
2. Abide by the ruling and procedures of the governing body of the WTO.
3. Give the US numerous extensions in order to allow them to sort it out.
4. Finally announce that the US had one final chance to sort itself out of that the EU would enact the legally prescribed punishment that the WTO decided upon in order to get the US rulers (the companies) to what the law changed.
I fail to see what the EU has done wrong, they haven't yet begun sanctions and even when they do they have taken ever measure possible to avoid it.
