Mexican government != US government. And I do believe they'll liscense who they let get these scanner doorways. Oh, and slippery slope fallacies aren't nice. Try to avoid them, mkay?Broomstick wrote:Medical records are not the only use these chips have. The Mexican government right now is using chips to verify identity/permit access to a very sensitive databse and installation used to combat crime. The company that makes the VeriChip is promoting them as a means of identifying employees, restricting/permitting access and tracking movement through an installation. They already have scanners ready to be installed in doorways for this very purpose.StormtrooperOfDeath wrote:The ONLY THING this scanner is doing is looking up your medical records. Unless you think that you should/do have the ability to deny access to them by the hospital...Broomstick wrote:You can't access my credit history unless you ask me for my social security number, which I seldom give out. Unless I am involved in something that requires bringing up my credit history, my credit history is none of your damn business.
In this case, someone with a scanner can take this information from me without my consent.
Maybe you can't see a difference, or maybe it doesn't matter to you, but it does to me.
You are very naive if you think a handy ID number implanted in your arm will be used only for medical record look-up, or that others won't be eager to inject more chips in your arm for their own purposes.
Oh, so if they permenantly graft a wafer on top of your skin it's ok? Just as long as they don't break skin? Give me a break. It's a 20 min procedure to put a grain of rice under your skin. They could do it in your sleep and you'd never know. What does that do for your paranoia meter?At least in this country, it is possible to opt out of vaccination.So a non-intrusive chip that has great benefit for your health is somehow a violation? It's comparable to vaccines.If I don't have pierced ears or wear jewelry or have any sort of tattoo what makes you think I want to have a chip shoved under my skin for permanent residence? If this stays strictly voluntary I'm OK with it, but I'm not volunteering. I can see where someone with a highly complex or rare and serious medical condition might choose this. I can see where doing this for those suffering from dementia and brain damage might be OK. However, I would be very much against forcibly requiring (through either law or denial of access to care) EVERYONE be subjected to this.
And YES, it IS a violation and if it goes under my skin and stays there forever it is NOT "non-intrusive". As soon as it breaks the skin it becomes intrusive.
The failsafes are the current, ineffiecient methods. Trying to figure out who the person is and manually retrieving thier records. Why are you requiring a redundancy for an advance that doesn't require the elimination of the current method?Not good enough an answer. I want to know what the failsafes and backups are in detail.No system is perfect. It's just another safety layer.What's the backup for this system? If the chipped arm is ripped off in an accident of some sort are the docs shit out of luck, or can you still ask the person his/her name (after all, they might still be concious) and look up the record that way?
See, that's the beauty of computer databases. All they have to do is change the line that links your current number to your new number, and you're still you. And if you can provide alibies for occurances that happened while your chip was missing (although if you report things fast enough you normally don't have problems with that, and since it's attached to you, you'll know if it goes missing faster than a card in your wallet or purse), they can be expunged as easily as hitting a few buttons. Also, if they ARE used like this (and nothing suggests they will), the centralization allows for much easier corrections for errors, instead of having to track down dozens of different databases and whatnot.Riiiiight... and if someone steals your identity NOW all you have to do is "report it stolen" but you'll STILL spend YEARS straightening the mess out.And all the person has to do is report that the chip was stolen. And then if the mugger wanted to go get treated at a hospitla for something, the scan would pop their name and they would be detained and arrested.Could this become a form of identity theft? Could a mugging victim have the chip dug out of them for use later by someone else wanting to establish a different identity? It may not be used for ID at first but that was once true of the social security number, which has become a de facto national ID tag in the US.
If the ID chip becomes your identity, such that is used everywhere for everything, then if it's stolen your shit out of luck because you won't be you anymore. Either someone else will have done bad things using your number - in which case it becomes part of the permanent record and will take years to expunge, if you can do so at all - or you have to be issued a new number, so you start over with no history.
That's the way it is right now with identity theft, why would that change? With the chip being incorporated into your body there would be even more resistance to a victim insisting it wasn't them who did something done by someone with their stolen identity.
Having been a victim of a stalker, I now understand why a law-abiding citizen with nothing to hide might, indeed, have a good reason to hide.What is it with you people and the desire for total seclusion from the rest of the world? Get over it, learn to live in reality with the rest of us.But I can opt out of some of that, if I desire. For instance, I don't shop at stores with "super saver" cards (on the very rare occassions I do, I pay cash and refuse their offers of such cards). I don't participate in surveys. I seldom give out my name, address, or phone number to anyone. If a store asks for such things at checkout I pay cash and refuse to give them that information (or make something up, if they're real insistant, and never return to that store).
I can't stay out of ALL databases, but I can minimize how many times I show up in one. It's getting harder to remain a "private" citizen, but that doesn't mean I'm willing to surrender any more of it.
If you think this lack of privacy is such a great thing go ahead, take out a full-page newspaper ad or set up a website with all your personal and financial information on it. See what happens.
And there's the irony that your own avatar on this board says "location undiclosed" - what are you afraid of? Why are you hiding? Publish your street address immediately - I mean, if we all could find it eventually with enough digging around what's the point of hiding it?
Jesus titty fucking Christ. My "Location" makes perfect sense with regards to my avatar, and will be even moreso in about 300 posts when I get my custom title. As for my actual location, here it is. 2401 Kirston Street, Hyattsville, MD 20783. You think I care? What can happen? They send me mail? Oh no, I'll lose 10 secs a day throwing it away. Someone's going to stalk me? 
Go ahead and try. One, I keep a very sharp pocket knife with me. It's useful for all sorts of things, like whenever i'm bored. Two, if someone does try, I'll get a restraining order and laugh my ass off as they get thrown in prison and raped by Bubby-Ray.So they DO have a coice, it's just more expensive. Imagine that, your neurotic paranoia might cost more. Deal with it, I have no sympathy.No, they can't.Private companies (even health insurance companies) have a great deal of discretion of how they provide service. If the customers don't like it, they can take their business elsewhere.But that right is NOT unlimited and health insurance companies are subject to both requirements and limitations. The fact that are a private business does not give them a right to trample the rights and privacy of their customers. The medical business is not like selling cars, and the law and regulators recognize that.
The idea that the average person in the US has a "choice" about healthcare is, with rare exception, bullshit. Almost all health insurance is provided through the employer. You take what your employer chooses to give you, or can afford to give you. IF you're really lucky, you might have a few choices, maybe HMO vs. PPO, but if you don't like any of them you're shit out of luck unless you can pony up the $6,000-$10,000 a year a private policy can cost you. The only people who really get a choice are those working for the Federal government.
Problem is, it won't stay that wayYou don't seem to grasp the basic concept of this chip. It's not an idendification for your entire life. They won't be scanning your arm to make purchases. It's strictly for medical purposes. The only thing it's tagged to is your medical history. Thats it.
The public was promised over and over again that the social security number would never be used as an ID number - but it is. All the damn time.
I do grasp the concept of the chip... but I also realize the technology has other applications as well.
That's it. Your claim that it won't stay that way. Well, excuse me if I don't take it to heart. As for SS #'s being used as ID #'s, they're stopping that. My uni is phasing that practice out, because it's illegal and the government doesn't appreciate it.----------
Alright, here's my little rant.
WHAT THE FUCK is wrong with you people!? Why are you so goddam paranoid? Do you have something to hide? Are you that scared that someone will come to get you? Are the black helicopters that close? If you knew how much information is already kept on you, you'd probably have a heart attack from shock. Why do you need to live your life with NO ONE knowing what you're doing? Are you doing something illegal? If not, then why bother to stay hidden? Christ, you people irritate me.
