European refugee crisis thread

[cosmicalstorm]

Sweden is now the only country with generous rules left in Europe.

4000 arrivals per day now, and that number will increase now that Merkel backed down from her crazy open border policy.

Even if the borders are closed today the economic impact will be titanic, huge cuts and tax increases are necessary to pay out welfare to all the men who have arrived. We will soon enjoy a social security that makes even America look good in comparison.

With tens of thousands of young men with a bleak future outlook packed into every civil building you can imagine, and soon packed into tents or confiscated property, the situation will no doubt turn violent.

IMO the only two ways into the future for Sweden is out right anarchy or fascist levels of state violence to maintain peace.

[Thanas]

You give the swedish state and the swedish people very little credit.

[Jub]

Sweden is now the only country with generous rules left in Europe.

4000 arrivals per day now, and that number will increase now that Merkel backed down from her crazy open border policy.

Even if the borders are closed today the economic impact will be titanic, huge cuts and tax increases are necessary to pay out welfare to all the men who have arrived. We will soon enjoy a social security that makes even America look good in comparison.

With tens of thousands of young men with a bleak future outlook packed into every civil building you can imagine, and soon packed into tents or confiscated property, the situation will no doubt turn violent.

IMO the only two ways into the future for Sweden is out right anarchy or fascist levels of state violence to maintain peace.

Have you ever posted a single thing on this site that wasn't alarmist chicken little bullshit or bunk medical pseudoscience?

-----

One a more on topic note. I don't think Europe will break due to the refugees, but some bending will have to be done unless refugee numbers can be more evenly spread among all EU nations; as well as, hopefully, some non-EU European nations. Thankfully Europe doesn't stand alone in this, Canada under our new government has pledged to get 25,000 refugees into Canada by January first. I don't know how realistic that is, and I know that it isn't going to take much weight off, but I'm happy that the government I voted for is willing to help.

[cmdrjones]

Last time I checked, "cure" and "alleviate" are two entirely different things.

They are differences of degree, not of kind.

A humongous difference, though. Ask a cancer patient.

I surmise that they will actually increase... A LOT.

Perhaps we should have a wager?

No, I've learned not to wager on SDN because last time I wagered something it took over a year to get something out of it.

Fair enough, it's a bit like the old joke about a police officer stopping a guy who rolls through a stop sign. He asks: "what's the difference, I slowed to 1 Mph?" Then the cop starts hitting him with his baton and asks, "ok, do you want me to stop, or slow down?"

In any case, my point is, several months ago, many were much more sanguine about the prospects about how well this was all going to work out, now, not so much. As I pointed out, the flow of refugees shows no sign of letting up anytime soon, and if anything the geopolitical situation in the areas that they are coming from seem only to be getting worse.

The natives usually don't fair so well when humans engage in mass migrations, we can ask the moriori, the native Americans, the people of southern india, the aborigines, the celts, the Carthaginians, and the Romans about all of this. Especially the native Americans, they are an ongoing social experiment in what happens when you allow mass immigration of a rapidly reproducing culture that is unlike your own into your territory.

[cmdrjones]

You give the swedish state and the swedish people very little credit.

he is making a rather bold prediction about what the refugees will do now that the Germans have changed their policy, feel free to disagree all you want. I think the broader point he is making is that there are only so many SWEDISH people and the numbers of refugees have already strained their welfare state to the breaking point. The Swedes themselves have started to admit this, and as of yet, have no policy to limit immigration or return those who they cannot take care of to another country. This is the very definition of an untenable situation. We have the Helveti model of dealing with immigration and we have the Vandal version.... this seems much more like the vandals than the Helveti.

[Metahive]

The natives usually don't fair so well when humans engage in mass migrations, we can ask the moriori, the native Americans, the people of southern india, the aborigines, the celts, the Carthaginians, and the Romans about all of this. Especially the native Americans, they are an ongoing social experiment in what happens when you allow mass immigration of a rapidly reproducing culture that is unlike your own into your territory.

The example of the Americas is invalid, the successful colonisation of that continent by Europeans was aided by the catastrophic population decline those regions suffered shortly before or as the colonists arrived. You might have noticed Europeans extended their tentacles to other parts of the globe too but didn't manage to spread as much or thoroughly there with the exception of Australia which was sparsley populated to begin with.
The Celts and Carthagians were subjugated in aggressive military campaigns by the Romans, who had sizable advantages in military organisation and capability, so unless you think the refugees will do likewise it's another invalid example.
None of your examples actually contain the conquest of a country purely by mass-migration. You're misrepresenting historical events for the sake of fearmongering. A Fuck You from the heart from me to you, asshole.

[cosmicalstorm]

Have you ever posted a single thing on this site that wasn't alarmist chicken little bullshit or bunk medical pseudoscience?

-----

One a more on topic note. I don't think Europe will break due to the refugees, but some bending will have to be done unless refugee numbers can be more evenly spread among all EU nations; as well as, hopefully, some non-EU European nations. Thankfully Europe doesn't stand alone in this, Canada under our new government has pledged to get 25,000 refugees into Canada by January first. I don't know how realistic that is, and I know that it isn't going to take much weight off, but I'm happy that the government I voted for is willing to help.

Well you can put me in with Swedens foreign minister in predicting a collapse of the nation. What part of this do you not understand?

Swedish Foreign Minister claims the country is 'facing collapse' because of the mass influx of refugees http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... ugees.html

Btw: Lol.

25.000 is nothing. Sweden takes 25.000 once every 6.25 Days.

[mr friendly guy]

Did the Confederate Patriot just say that the Carthaginians were wiped out because of Roman mass migration, as opposed to Rome actively sacking Carthage in the third Punic war, destroying the city and selling survivors into slavery. Really?

[Purple]

Did they really? Correct me if I am wrong, and I might well be but it is my understanding that the sacking of Carthage probably was not to the extent we commonly think about. I am certain that some sacking did occur of course. But given that Carthage became a very important and wealthy city under the Romans I doubt it was completely destroyed.

[Broomstick]

Yes, he really did.

Let's form up a line and try to slap the stupid out of him. It probably won't work, but maybe we'll feel better.

[Metahive]

Well, of course. Don't you know that the real power of Rome weren't her legions but the millions of poor refugees it could spawn in subterranean vats that invaded other people's lands and infected them with the Roman culture virus?

Did they really? Correct me if I am wrong, and I might well be but it is my understanding that the sacking of Carthage probably was not to the extent we commonly think about. I am certain that some sacking did occur of course. But given that Carthage became a very important and wealthy city under the Romans I doubt it was completely destroyed.

Punic Carthage was razed to the ground and completely depopulated, with nearby Utica taking its place as province capital. The Romans build a new city on the same spot over a hundred years later.

[ray245]

If he knows more about Roman History, he could at the least chose a slightly more fitting analogy by talking about the period where the Romans actually did experience mass migration.

[Metahive]

...and then he would find out that those migrators found Roman culture really, really swell and largely adopted it for themselves. So again, the exact opposite of what he's trying to peddle.

[mr friendly guy]

He could have picked the migration of Germanic tribes into Rome who caused the collapse of the Western Roman Empire because the Romans gave them big welfare checks. The funny thing is, he most probably couldn't figure out which part of my statement is true and which is sarcasm.

[Thanas]

BREAD AND GAMES FOR ALL MIGRANTS.

[Thanas]

It is doubly funny because the battle of Adrianople actually happened because the local corrupt officials tried to sell the peaceful migrants into slavery and starve them. So treating migrants unfairly led to the Roman defeat.

Also, Rome in General liked it when people migrated into her territories because Germanic migrants made for good, loyal soldiers and farmers, of which the Empire had a desperate need.

But hey, what do I know. MIGRANTS BAD HORDE RABBLE RABBLE.

[cosmicalstorm]

Sweden will reinstate border controls tomorrow. Schengen no more?

[Ziggy Stardust]

Well you can put me in with Swedens foreign minister in predicting a collapse of the nation. What part of this do you not understand?

Swedish Foreign Minister claims the country is 'facing collapse' because of the mass influx of refugees http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... ugees.html

You will note, of course, that (unlike you) the Swedish foreign minister isn't claiming that the country will be destroyed by foreigners and that they shouldn't take any more in, but rather that they are taking on a disproportionate burden compared to other EU countries, and he is asking that they do their part to take in refugees. I doubt you even read the article, though, since you'd rather use the headline as support for your terror of brown-skinned people.

Sweden will reinstate border controls tomorrow. Schengen no more?

Nope. The Schengen Agreement explicitly allows for countries to temporarily reinstate border controls, when the "control of an external border is no longer ensured due to exceptional circumstances", and I believe these qualify as that.

And, indeed, this isn't the first time a Schengen signatory has done so. Malta, Denmark, and Estonia have all done so in the past. And, in fact, Germany and Slovakia both did so several months ago in response to the refugee crisis (again, "exceptional circumstances"), and that hasn't resulted in the collapse of the EU, yet.

So, once again, you are spewing ill-informed alarmist nonsense without bothering to do basic fact-checking; and, knowing you, you will probably just ignore this post entirely and continue to regale us all with your wide-eyed xenophobic paranoia.

[Iroscato]

At this point, do we expect anything less from our resident shitstorm?

[Gandalf]

The natives usually don't fair so well when humans engage in mass migrations, we can ask the moriori, the native Americans, the people of southern india, the aborigines, the celts, the Carthaginians, and the Romans about all of this. Especially the native Americans, they are an ongoing social experiment in what happens when you allow mass immigration of a rapidly reproducing culture that is unlike your own into your territory.

Wait, you're saying that Indigenous Australia was wiped out by a mass immigration? That's like saying Poland experienced a sharp upturn in German immigrants in 1939.

[cmdrjones]

The natives usually don't fair so well when humans engage in mass migrations, we can ask the moriori, the native Americans, the people of southern india, the aborigines, the celts, the Carthaginians, and the Romans about all of this. Especially the native Americans, they are an ongoing social experiment in what happens when you allow mass immigration of a rapidly reproducing culture that is unlike your own into your territory.

Wait, you're saying that Indigenous Australia was wiped out by a mass immigration? That's like saying Poland experienced a sharp upturn in German immigrants in 1939.

ummm well if there hadn't been any European civilians there at all, then I don't see how they would've been replaced... what do you think the British Military was there to do?
That's right, the same thing the Whermact was there to do in the Drang nacht osten, ja?

[cmdrjones]

Did the Confederate Patriot just say that the Carthaginians were wiped out because of Roman mass migration, as opposed to Rome actively sacking Carthage in the third Punic war, destroying the city and selling survivors into slavery. Really?

You're confusing tactics with strategy. The tactic was to destroy the Carthaginian capitol, the strategy was to enslave and destroy the Carthaginians as a people and replace them with romans, or romanised locals.

[cmdrjones]

It is doubly funny because the battle of Adrianople actually happened because the local corrupt officials tried to sell the peaceful migrants into slavery and starve them. So treating migrants unfairly led to the Roman defeat.

Also, Rome in General liked it when people migrated into her territories because Germanic migrants made for good, loyal soldiers and farmers, of which the Empire had a desperate need.

But hey, what do I know. MIGRANTS BAD HORDE RABBLE RABBLE.

Are the migrants being treated fairly NOW?

That's a nice mis-representation of what I've been saying btw, the above examples are, as I said, propaganda for the other side enabled by the backlash the SJW types have created, did the UKIP, or Generation Identitaire or PEGIDA matter at all 5 years ago? what changed since then?

[cmdrjones]

He could have picked the migration of Germanic tribes into Rome who caused the collapse of the Western Roman Empire because the Romans gave them big welfare checks. The funny thing is, he most probably couldn't figure out which part of my statement is true and which is sarcasm.

The German migrations were simply a sign post of an Empire passing along the road into history. Why did the Wesern Roman empire lack for said farmers and soldiers as Thanas so adroitly pointed out? They very well may have loved it when low wage laboring and Imperial legion staffing germans came straggling into their territories... right up until they didn't.

[Gandalf]

ummm well if there hadn't been any European civilians there at all, then I don't see how they would've been replaced... what do you think the British Military was there to do?

Exactly my point. It wasn't people moving to Australia that killed the Indigenous people off, as some early encounters show relatively decent relations between settlers and local Indigenous peoples. It was the British Empire's policy of extermination, and the Frontier Wars that wiped people out. Maybe the conflation of violent expansion and migration makes sense in Confederacyland where there's apparently a colour based natural order, and our cultural/linguistic divide is coming between us.