The Jester wrote: ↑2018-11-14 10:31pm
It's not so much a deal as a delay of disaster. There's still no solution for what happens when 2021 rolls around and all treaties cease. So much work would need to be done just to get them back to where they are now, it'd be the equivalent of writing a dissertation during an all-nighter. Assuming the legal frameworks allow for it, I suspect they'll asking for another extension when this is about to expire.
Kicking everything back 2 years is hardly the best strategy, but it's certainly better to have 28 months to try and sort things out rather than 4 as long as evertyhing doesn't get ignored for a year or two and then everyone panics at the last minute. The two year period originally given since things were triggered was never going to be long enough to sort things out even if we had been unified and super prepaired.
Thanas wrote: ↑2018-11-15 08:36am
Well, Corbyn has always been a snake when it comes to Brexit, happily scrapping all the workplace protections and safety laws the EU brought in favour of being able to govern away from the bad EU oversight.
Well as a default all EU legislation has been make UK law so any protections are currently in place regardless of whether we're part of the EU or not, of course any future government can now choose to make changes as they want. Do you have any evidence that Corbin wants to remove worker protection? It certainly would seen to go against his traditional labour supporters compaired to the more blairite 'New Labour' who have been against him from the start.
Bedlam wrote: ↑2018-11-16 09:44pm
Kicking everything back 2 years is hardly the best strategy, but it's certainly better to have 28 months to try and sort things out rather than 4 as long as evertyhing doesn't get ignored for a year or two and then everyone panics at the last minute. The two year period originally given since things were triggered was never going to be long enough to sort things out even if we had been unified and super prepaired.
I agree that it's the best that May could possibly achieve. That said, on average it takes around 8 years to negotiate an FTA or similar bilateral arrangement. The EU has about 36 of them in place. When there's very little experience within the UK's negotiating team (because they've been reliant on EU negotiators), it's still at least an order of magnitude difference between the time they need and the time they have.
His Divine Shadow wrote: ↑2018-11-16 01:10am
Yes yes, Corbyn wants out of the EU so he can scrap worker protection laws, that's exactly what he and the labour party wants when in power. It all makes sense now.
There's a valid criticism of the EU in how the Maastricht Treaty and Euro hamstring governments in how they can respond to economic crises. I get that and I suspect there are a number of Labor MPs that see it the same way. Unfortunately, that makes a good reason for not joining the EU, not for leaving.
His Divine Shadow wrote: ↑2018-11-16 01:10am
Yes yes, Corbyn wants out of the EU so he can scrap worker protection laws, that's exactly what he and the labour party wants when in power. It all makes sense now.
There's a valid criticism of the EU in how the Maastricht Treaty and Euro hamstring governments in how they can respond to economic crises. I get that and I suspect there are a number of Labor MPs that see it the same way. Unfortunately, that makes a good reason for not joining the EU, not for leaving.
I'm not really trying to make a case or for or against the EU here, I just found that take on Corbyn to be so... absurd. Like you know your brain stops working and you don't know how to respond at first, like one of those paintings that fool the eye except in word form.
Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who did not.
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Thanas wrote: ↑2018-11-15 08:36am
Well, Corbyn has always been a snake when it comes to Brexit, happily scrapping all the workplace protections and safety laws the EU brought in favour of being able to govern away from the bad EU oversight.
That's Rees Mogg.
Corbyn wants to do away with TFEU 107 so he can use state money to pump up low wages and prop up small businesses better. Which there are probably ways to do within the EU as well (like UBI) but he's an old Trot and doesn't think in those terms.
Theresa May has denied ever considering quitting as Prime Minister, despite a "tough week" that saw her lose key Cabinet members including former Brexit secretary Dominic Raab.
Mrs May said "of course it has been a tough week" but suggested a change of leadership would bring in "a degree of uncertainty" and a "risk that Brexit gets delayed or frustrated."
She claimed negotiations were "always going to get even more difficult right toward the end" and said the next seven days "are going to be critical" as she travels to Brussels to talk to figures including Jean-Claude Juncker, the European Commission President.
The Prime Minister was speaking on Sky News' Sophy Ridge on Sunday programme after Mr Raab accused her in a newspaper article of failing to stand up to a bullying European Union, saying she should be prepared to "walk away" from negotiations.
Mrs May later revealed that she had spoken to Sir Graham Brady, who chairs the powerful backbench 1922 Committee, and as far as she was aware the required number of Tory MPs' letters to trigger a no confidence vote in her had not been reached.
Asked if the 48 letter threshold had been reached she added: "As far as I know, no, the answer to your question is no."
So she's saying that a leadership challenge would delay/frustrate both Brexit and 'introduce uncertainty'.
What she really meant is 'delay further' and 'introduce more uncertainty', because that sums up this clusterfuck in a nutshell.
Thanas wrote: ↑2018-11-15 08:36am
Well, Corbyn has always been a snake when it comes to Brexit, happily scrapping all the workplace protections and safety laws the EU brought in favour of being able to govern away from the bad EU oversight.
That's Rees Mogg.
Corbyn wants to do away with TFEU 107 so he can use state money to pump up low wages and prop up small businesses better. Which there are probably ways to do within the EU as well (like UBI) but he's an old Trot and doesn't think in those terms.
His words and deeds do not match. He can and should push for no Brexit. He refused to do so. He had a party overwhelmningly being in favor of no-Brexit, which he tried to then quench via tricks at the party conference. He has refused to campaign on no-brexit despite having an easy way to a majority. The only explanation there is that he is indeed Pro-Brexit.
If he thinks that Brexit will allow him to "pump up low-wages" and "prop up small businesses" then he is delusional. There will be no deal with the EU that will allow the UK to subsidize business. There will be no deal with the EU that will allow the UK to subsidize wages. The only way to do that is under EU programs...which he wants to quit.
So he either wants a no-deal Brexit (with all the chaos and suffering that would bring) or he is a delusional old fool or just another slimy huckster. In either case he is unfit and should be removed.
Whoever says "education does not matter" can try ignorance
------------
A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
------------ My LPs
Thanas wrote: ↑2018-11-15 08:36am
Well, Corbyn has always been a snake when it comes to Brexit, happily scrapping all the workplace protections and safety laws the EU brought in favour of being able to govern away from the bad EU oversight.
That's Rees Mogg.
Corbyn wants to do away with TFEU 107 so he can use state money to pump up low wages and prop up small businesses better. Which there are probably ways to do within the EU as well (like UBI) but he's an old Trot and doesn't think in those terms.
His words and deeds do not match. He can and should push for no Brexit. He refused to do so. He had a party overwhelmningly being in favor of no-Brexit, which he tried to then quench via tricks at the party conference. He has refused to campaign on no-brexit despite having an easy way to a majority. The only explanation there is that he is indeed Pro-Brexit.
If he thinks that Brexit will allow him to "pump up low-wages" and "prop up small businesses" then he is delusional. There will be no deal with the EU that will allow the UK to subsidize business. There will be no deal with the EU that will allow the UK to subsidize wages. The only way to do that is under EU programs...which he wants to quit.
So he either wants a no-deal Brexit (with all the chaos and suffering that would bring) or he is a delusional old fool or just another slimy huckster. In either case he is unfit and should be removed.
Opinion in some circles is his refusing to put the labour party behind remain so far has allowed the brexit gang to devolve into their current back biting maddness, if there was a common cause to blame, i.e. the opposition want remain then the brexiteers would probably have remained united and used any setbacks as a stick to bash Labour. How true this is is debatable, but if so it's worked so far.
If he is sacrificing his country and his electorate (for the low-income people and workers will be hardest hit) for the sake of party politics in an attempt to gain power then he is even more of a treacherous egoistical snake than I thought. I really hope that is not his strategy because it really reflects poorly on him as a person.
Whoever says "education does not matter" can try ignorance
------------
A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
------------ My LPs
Corbyn's problem is that he has to work around the fact that 52% of this country, including a lot of people he absolutely cannot afford to alienate, knowingly and willingly voted for ethnic cleansing. An appalling number of people in this country voted Leaves solely because they thought it meant that all the East Europeans would be driven out of the country and that nobody else would be allowed to immigrate, and an equally appalling number have failed to change their minds even when presented with compelling evidence that there would be negative consequences for themselves.
And I wish I had a clue how to solve this problem without resorting to extremely undemocratic methods, because I'm pretty sure this is something as deeply embedded into the fabric of our society as our class system, and which will only go away if everyone who thinks its a good thing dies before they can hammer it into their children's heads.
There are hardly any excesses of the most crazed psychopath that cannot easily be duplicated by a normal kindly family man who just comes in to work every day and has a job to do.
-- (Terry Pratchett, Small Gods)
Replace "ginger" with "n*gger," and suddenly it become a lot less funny, doesn't it?
-- fgalkin
These are the same leavers that don't realise that the democracy pendulum swings both ways, so if collectively the nation changes its mind the people should be allowed to vote. Whenever I encounter leavers on social media I ask them "How'd you solve the Irish Border Problem?", in the style of Tony Stark. I've yet to get an intelligent answer.
Theresa May has challenged Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn to a Brexit TV debate, as US president Donald Trump strongly criticised her EU withdrawal plans.
The Prime Minister went on the offensive as she launched an intensive two-week campaign to try and get her EU exit agreement through the Commons.
As Mrs May heads for Wales and Northern Ireland on Tuesday to try and sell the deal as “good for the union”, she told The Sun: “I am going to be explaining why I think this deal is the right deal for the UK – and yes, I am ready to debate it with Jeremy Corbyn.
May's strategy in trying to sell this polished turd to the public is to get people to contact their local MPs to try and pressure them into voting in favour of the Brexit deal, based on the fact that it's the best the UK can hope to get. It's been so thoroughly rejected even fucking Donald Trump says it sucks.
Wow. She must be desperate if she's going out of her way to give Corbyn a platform.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver
"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.
I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
Nigel Farage will launch an effort to oust UKIP leader Gerard Batten following his appointment of far-right figure Tommy Robinson.
Mr Farage, who previously led UKIP in three different spells, condemned Mr Batten for dragging the party in a "shameful direction".
Since becoming leader in February, Mr Batten has seen a series of high-profile figures quit UKIP amid criticism of the party's anti-Islam messages.
He has now prompted a new row by controversially naming English Defence League founder Tommy Robinson, real name Stephen Yaxley-Lennon, as his adviser on rape gangs and prison reform.
Mr Farage described himself as "appalled" by the appointment and revealed he will be lobbying UKIP officials in a bid to remove Mr Batten.
"I will be writing to the National Executive Committee of the party today and urging that we have a vote of no confidence in Gerard Batten as leader, that we get rid of him," he told BBC Radio 4's Today programme.
"We can have one last go at getting rid of somebody who, as leader, is dragging us in a shameful direction."
Mr Farage has previously criticised Mr Batten for marching alongside the Democratic Football Lads Alliance at an anti-Muslim rally.
Can any Brits tell me, is Farage upper class or something. Because when he wouldn't even meet Robinson (someone who is quite proud of his working class roots), that's just the first thing that popped into my mind. Also as well as Farage describing him as a thug. My gut feeling could be wrong, but its worth looking into.
Never apologise for being a geek, because they won't apologise to you for being an arsehole. John Barrowman - 22 June 2014 Perth Supernova.
Countries I have been to - 14.
Australia, Canada, China, Colombia, Denmark, Ecuador, Finland, Germany, Malaysia, Netherlands, Norway, Singapore, Sweden, USA.
Always on the lookout for more nice places to visit.
Nigel Farage will launch an effort to oust UKIP leader Gerard Batten following his appointment of far-right figure Tommy Robinson.
Mr Farage, who previously led UKIP in three different spells, condemned Mr Batten for dragging the party in a "shameful direction".
Since becoming leader in February, Mr Batten has seen a series of high-profile figures quit UKIP amid criticism of the party's anti-Islam messages.
He has now prompted a new row by controversially naming English Defence League founder Tommy Robinson, real name Stephen Yaxley-Lennon, as his adviser on rape gangs and prison reform.
Mr Farage described himself as "appalled" by the appointment and revealed he will be lobbying UKIP officials in a bid to remove Mr Batten.
"I will be writing to the National Executive Committee of the party today and urging that we have a vote of no confidence in Gerard Batten as leader, that we get rid of him," he told BBC Radio 4's Today programme.
"We can have one last go at getting rid of somebody who, as leader, is dragging us in a shameful direction."
Mr Farage has previously criticised Mr Batten for marching alongside the Democratic Football Lads Alliance at an anti-Muslim rally.
Can any Brits tell me, is Farage upper class or something. Because when he wouldn't even meet Robinson (someone who is quite proud of his working class roots), that's just the first thing that popped into my mind. Also as well as Farage describing him as a thug. My gut feeling could be wrong, but its worth looking into.
This describes Farage in a nutshell:
The same idiot who failed to emulate Bill Pullman with his "Independence Day" speech after the referendum!
mr friendly guy wrote: ↑2018-11-27 04:41amCan any Brits tell me, is Farage upper class or something. Because when he wouldn't even meet Robinson (someone who is quite proud of his working class roots), that's just the first thing that popped into my mind. Also as well as Farage describing him as a thug. My gut feeling could be wrong, but its worth looking into.
Calling "Tommy Robinson" a thug and refusing to have anything to do with him is a) a statement of the bleeding obvious, and b) normal behaviour from anyone with an ounce of self-respect. It's got absolutely nothing to do with class. In Farage's case it's a continuation of the effort he went to while UKIP leader to ensure there was a firewall between the party and the far right, which his considerably less politically savvy successors have either failed to uphold or actively degraded.
But to answer the earlier question, yes, Farage is at least upper-middle class. He's a former grammar school student who went on to work as an investment banker in the City. I think he's still relatively noveau riche and therefore not a proper aristocrat yet, however.
There are hardly any excesses of the most crazed psychopath that cannot easily be duplicated by a normal kindly family man who just comes in to work every day and has a job to do.
-- (Terry Pratchett, Small Gods)
Replace "ginger" with "n*gger," and suddenly it become a lot less funny, doesn't it?
-- fgalkin
Theresa May has challenged Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn to a Brexit TV debate, as US president Donald Trump strongly criticised her EU withdrawal plans.
The Prime Minister went on the offensive as she launched an intensive two-week campaign to try and get her EU exit agreement through the Commons.
As Mrs May heads for Wales and Northern Ireland on Tuesday to try and sell the deal as “good for the union”, she told The Sun: “I am going to be explaining why I think this deal is the right deal for the UK – and yes, I am ready to debate it with Jeremy Corbyn.
May's strategy in trying to sell this polished turd to the public is to get people to contact their local MPs to try and pressure them into voting in favour of the Brexit deal, based on the fact that it's the best the UK can hope to get. It's been so thoroughly rejected even fucking Donald Trump says it sucks.
Well the current options are this deal, which isn't great or no deal, which is disasterous.
mr friendly guy wrote: ↑2018-11-27 04:41amCan any Brits tell me, is Farage upper class or something. Because when he wouldn't even meet Robinson (someone who is quite proud of his working class roots), that's just the first thing that popped into my mind. Also as well as Farage describing him as a thug. My gut feeling could be wrong, but its worth looking into.
Calling "Tommy Robinson" a thug and refusing to have anything to do with him is a) a statement of the bleeding obvious, and b) normal behaviour from anyone with an ounce of self-respect. It's got absolutely nothing to do with class. In Farage's case it's a continuation of the effort he went to while UKIP leader to ensure there was a firewall between the party and the far right, which his considerably less politically savvy successors have either failed to uphold or actively degraded.
Thanks. That puts things in more context.
Never apologise for being a geek, because they won't apologise to you for being an arsehole. John Barrowman - 22 June 2014 Perth Supernova.
Countries I have been to - 14.
Australia, Canada, China, Colombia, Denmark, Ecuador, Finland, Germany, Malaysia, Netherlands, Norway, Singapore, Sweden, USA.
Always on the lookout for more nice places to visit.
Theresa May has challenged Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn to a Brexit TV debate, as US president Donald Trump strongly criticised her EU withdrawal plans.
The Prime Minister went on the offensive as she launched an intensive two-week campaign to try and get her EU exit agreement through the Commons.
As Mrs May heads for Wales and Northern Ireland on Tuesday to try and sell the deal as “good for the union”, she told The Sun: “I am going to be explaining why I think this deal is the right deal for the UK – and yes, I am ready to debate it with Jeremy Corbyn.
May's strategy in trying to sell this polished turd to the public is to get people to contact their local MPs to try and pressure them into voting in favour of the Brexit deal, based on the fact that it's the best the UK can hope to get. It's been so thoroughly rejected even fucking Donald Trump says it sucks.
Well the current options are this deal, which isn't great or no deal, which is disasterous.
Articlein fincial times today predicted the following brinkmanship.
Mays option rejected as fails to get majority
Two camps also struggle for majority.
First is brexiteer "norway" option as it can be assembled very quickly but is even more powerless but steered then may's.
Large favtion in labour need this to not be developed as the gunbarrel of no deal might force a second referendum and cancellation vote.
So after cameron's brinkmanship failed to draw labour into phyrric victory two years ago, we get new round of risking no deal to try and call whole thing off.
Feel lucky my fellow punks?
"Aid, trade, green technology and peace." - Hans Rosling.
"Welcome to SDN, where we can't see the forest because walking into trees repeatedly feels good, bro." - Mr Coffee
Mueller documents are claiming that an ally of Nigel Farage, Ted Malloch, was asked to get information from Wikileaks for the Trump campaign, just in case anyone has forgotten that this is a global Neo-Nazi conspiracy:
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver
"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.
I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
Well if you can take Farage off our hands that would be great. Seems unlikely though.
-
Seems they are moving ahead with this bloody stupid idea of a TV Debate about Brexit. Since no-one watching it actually has a say in it any more, other than MPs, there's no reason to do it on telly rather than the Houses OF Parliament than pr and theatre for the masses
Crazedwraith wrote: ↑2018-11-29 02:18pm
Well if you can take Farage off our hands that would be great. Seems unlikely though.
-
Seems they are moving ahead with this bloody stupid idea of a TV Debate about Brexit. Since no-one watching it actually has a say in it any more, other than MPs, there's no reason to do it on telly rather than the Houses OF Parliament than pr and theatre for the masses
It's about as pointless as May touring the country with the hope it will get voters to voice their support to their local MP. Normally I would say it's futile, but stranger things have happened.
I would love to see a TV debate between Corbyn and May, even though I don't particularly like either of them.
