2016 US ELECTION: Official Results Thread

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Re: 2016 US ELECTION: Official Results Thread

Post by The Romulan Republic »

So, their have been irregularities suggesting the possibility of vote-hacking in Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania, and Jill Stein has requested a recount in Wisconsin, and plans to demand one in the other two as well.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/pow ... -petition/
An election recount will take place soon in Wisconsin, after former Green Party presidential candidate Jill Stein filed a petition Friday with the state’s Election Commission, the first of three states where she has promised to contest the election result.

The move from Stein, who raised millions since her Wednesday announcement that she would seek recounts of Donald Trump’s apparent election victories in Wisconsin, Pennsylvania and Michigan, came just 90 minutes before Wisconsin’s 5 p.m. Friday deadline to file a petition. Now it will keep some hope alive for many Hillary Clinton supporters for another few weeks while Wisconsin recounts ballots before a Dec. 13 deadline.

Trump scored upset victories in Wisconsin and Pennsylvania, and seems on the path to declare a victory in Michigan as well, though the result of the election in that state will not be certified officially until Monday. Had Clinton won those three states, previously seen as part of the Democrats’ “firewall,” she would have secured enough electoral votes to win the election.

Stein announced her intention to file the petition following reports that a group of data experts and election lawyers were urging Clinton to demand a recount in those three states, on suspicion that a cyberattack could have manipulated the results of the election in those states. While the group had no specific proof of hacking, they noted anomalies suggesting Clinton routinely did more poorly in Wisconsin counties that used voting machines, as opposed to those that relied on paper ballots.

Trump secured a total of 1,404,000 votes in Wisconsin, according to the commission; Clinton had 1,381,823.

In the end, Stein, who secured 31,006 votes in Wisconsin, was not the only presidential candidate to demand a recount. Rocky Roque De La Fuente, the Reform Party nominee who got 1,514 Wisconsin votes, also filed a recount petition, according to the state’s Election Commission.

Green Party says it is ready to file for vote recount in Wis. Play Video1:54
George Martin, a Green Party official, said on Nov. 25 in Milwaukee that his party is seeking a vote recount in Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania “for the benefit of the American public.” (Reuters)
[Why are people giving Jill Stein millions of dollars for an election recount?]

To be on the safe side, the group of experts urged a recount — but it was Stein’s campaign that ended up demanding one, soliciting at first $2.5 million and later up to $7 million to fund the recounts. As of Friday evening, Stein’s campaign reported taking in over $5.25 million in recount-related donations — the most by a third-party candidate in history.

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Wisconsin has the first deadline of the three states in question. If Stein’s campaign wishes to file recount petitions in the other states as promised, she must do so by Monday to meet Pennsylvania’s deadline, and Wednesday to meet the Nov. 30 deadline in Michigan.

In a statement, Wisconsin Elections Commission Administrator Michael Haas guessed that the cost and complexity of the recount would be in excess of the state’s last recount in 2011, which carried a price tag of more than $520,000. In that recount over a state Supreme Court seat, the commission had to recount 1.5 million votes — about half the 2.975 million ballot votes that were cast during the 2016 presidential election.



Stein put a note on her Facebook page on Friday, asking supporters “to consider volunteering to help in the recount process.”

The county boards of canvassers will conduct the recount, according to the commission’s statement, and will have the authority “to decide which ballots should and should not be counted,” Haas said.

If the candidates disagree with the results of the Wisconsin recount, they will have five business days to contest the outcome in court.
May we live in interesting times...

Still, while I doubt very much that this will change the results (they'd have to prove the results were off by tens of thousands in all three states), I think this is the right thing to do. Its close enough that its best not to take a chance, or have any ambiguity on the matter.

I have to say that I have just a little more respect for Jill Stein now. She may be an idiot, and its possible she's just doing this for publicity, but its the right thing to do, and she's the only one who's had the guts to do it.
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Re: 2016 US ELECTION: Official Results Thread

Post by Dragon Angel »

I guess in a way she's compromising her own beliefs doing this, re: her belief Hillary would be a worse President than Trump. As terminally naive as I thought of her then, I find it interesting she is at least sticking up for what is, ultimately, correct if the grounds are solid enough.

And inb4 right wing partisans we all know: Yes, if there was suspicion of manipulation the other way around, I would still support a recount. As long as it isn't constantly dismissed under pretenses such as "never good enough" like all the fucking Benghazi reports.
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Re: 2016 US ELECTION: Official Results Thread

Post by FireNexus »

There has not been any hacking. The suggestions of irregularities have been statisticians saying "it's unlikely but why not check?" I hope I'm wrong, but this is just likely to be late denialism. If there was actual hacking, we'd have heard all about it on the 9th.
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Re: 2016 US ELECTION: Official Results Thread

Post by The Romulan Republic »

I wouldn't be shocked if one state flipped, with how close it was and the fact that their are always some errors with voting in any election.

But yeah, I very much doubt all three will flip, as I said.

Still, better to do it rather than have more doubt over the legitimacy of the results. Especially since Stein is raising the money for it rather than the tax payers footing the whole bill.
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Re: 2016 US ELECTION: Official Results Thread

Post by Flagg »

FireNexus wrote:There has not been any hacking. The suggestions of irregularities have been statisticians saying "it's unlikely but why not check?" I hope I'm wrong, but this is just likely to be late denialism. If there was actual hacking, we'd have heard all about it on the 9th.
No, there are cyber security experts saying there is a possibility that the machines were hacked. That's one of the reasons for a recount, to count the actual ballots that the machines scanned.
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Re: 2016 US ELECTION: Official Results Thread

Post by Flagg »

Broomstick wrote:
Flagg wrote:
Broomstick wrote:Want to get rid of the Senate, too? Because that's based on geographic units, not population.
No it's not, you twit. Every state gets 2. And house seats are based on population. This is elementary school shit.
Yes, it is you moron. That's why states with huge land areas like Alaska or Texas get two senators just like teeny states like New Hampshire and Rhode Island do. It's even less population based than the electoral college.
Just to clarify, you talked about geographic units, I talked about land area. So nice strawman. If I were in a better emotional state I wouldn't have bitten. But your dishonesty is awesome.
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Re: 2016 US ELECTION: Official Results Thread

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In the extremely unlikely event this is enough to swing the election back the other way, I am going to laugh and laugh until my ribs are dust.
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Re: 2016 US ELECTION: Official Results Thread

Post by Flagg »

Chimaera wrote:In the extremely unlikely event this is enough to swing the election back the other way, I am going to laugh and laugh until my ribs are dust.
The Donnie Douchebag crowd would likely take up arms. I'm not even kidding.
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Re: 2016 US ELECTION: Official Results Thread

Post by Iroscato »

Flagg wrote:
Chimaera wrote:In the extremely unlikely event this is enough to swing the election back the other way, I am going to laugh and laugh until my ribs are dust.
The Donnie Douchebag crowd would likely take up arms. I'm not even kidding.
I wouldn't care, I'd be dead from massive internal hemorrhaging due to my mashed, pulpy lungs :P
Yeah, I've always taken the subtext of the Birther movement to be, "The rules don't count here! This is different! HE'S BLACK! BLACK, I SAY! ARE YOU ALL BLIND!?

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Re: 2016 US ELECTION: Official Results Thread

Post by Gaidin »

Chimaera wrote:In the extremely unlikely event this is enough to swing the election back the other way, I am going to laugh and laugh until my ribs are dust.
Eh? Three states? At once? I could possibly see a few key counties in Florida causing heartburn in 2000. But Stein is literally throwing pasta at the wall and there's a reason Nixon didn't pull this crap in 1960(needed to flip two states), and Hillary isn't doing it now(would need to flip three).
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Re: 2016 US ELECTION: Official Results Thread

Post by Iroscato »

Clue was in the "extremely unlikely" brah...
Yeah, I've always taken the subtext of the Birther movement to be, "The rules don't count here! This is different! HE'S BLACK! BLACK, I SAY! ARE YOU ALL BLIND!?

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Re: 2016 US ELECTION: Official Results Thread

Post by jwl »

If it were to happen that the presidency gets swapped, would Hillary even accept the presidency, or would she just reactivate another election? I'm not sure if she would want to set a precedent like this.
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Re: 2016 US ELECTION: Official Results Thread

Post by Flagg »

jwl wrote:If it were to happen that the presidency gets swapped, would Hillary even accept the presidency, or would she just reactivate another election? I'm not sure if she would want to set a precedent like this.
That's not how it works. If a state that was awarded to Trump flipped after a recount, then electors from that state would vote for Clinton at the Electoral college. If enough states flip that her tally of Electors is higher than Trumps, she wins, the end. There can be no "do over" election. The most Clinton could do is resign right after inauguration and then Kaine (who ran on her Ticket as VP) would be President.
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Re: 2016 US ELECTION: Official Results Thread

Post by Broomstick »

Flagg wrote:Just to clarify, you talked about geographic units, I talked about land area. So nice strawman. If I were in a better emotional state I wouldn't have bitten. But your dishonesty is awesome.
Eat shit and die you fuckwit, a difference of viewpoint is not "dishonesty".
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Re: 2016 US ELECTION: Official Results Thread

Post by Flagg »

Broomstick wrote:
Flagg wrote:Just to clarify, you talked about geographic units, I talked about land area. So nice strawman. If I were in a better emotional state I wouldn't have bitten. But your dishonesty is awesome.
Eat shit and die you fuckwit, a difference of viewpoint is not "dishonesty".
I'd love to, but I'm not that lucky.

You changed a term I used to advance my argument from "land area" to "geographic units" which mean 2 different things and didn't have any bearing on the conversation at hand. As Miley Cyrus would put it, "you came in like a wrecking ball", and you consciously or unconsciously created a strawman.

My argument was that land area is not, and should not be, a factor in elections. Then you chimed in essentially saying that Senators are assigned by geographic units, which is true, but had absolutely nothing to do with the conversation at hand.

I replied incorrectly that geographic units are not used to assign senators because every state gets 2. Then you said the same thing I said in the quote you responded to.

Were you being dishonest? Probably not, I'll take that back and apologize.

But since you think what happened is that you were called dishonest due to having a "different viewpoint, you showed that you are really dumb.
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Re: 2016 US ELECTION: Official Results Thread

Post by Broomstick »

Apology accepted.

But, again, fuck you. "You're stupid" is not a winning argument. Admittedly neither is "fuck you", but then, I'm not claiming it is.
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Re: 2016 US ELECTION: Official Results Thread

Post by Flagg »

Broomstick wrote:Apology accepted.

But, again, fuck you. "You're stupid" is not a winning argument. Admittedly neither is "fuck you", but then, I'm not claiming it is.
Getting insulted by you is an honor.
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Re: 2016 US ELECTION: Official Results Thread

Post by Broomstick »

Deleted content.

Edited because a bad day made me rise to the bait, but I'm trying to be better than that.
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Re: 2016 US ELECTION: Official Results Thread

Post by Flagg »

Anyway, back on topic.

Clinton is now backing the recounts.
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Re: 2016 US ELECTION: Official Results Thread

Post by Ralin »

Flagg wrote: The Donnie Douchebag crowd would likely take up arms. I'm not even kidding.
At this point I'd be pretty thrilled if they did. Anything to reduce that demographic in future elections.

Yeah I know that's a tough guy fantasy, but a man can dream.
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Re: 2016 US ELECTION: Official Results Thread

Post by Flagg »

Ralin wrote:
Flagg wrote: The Donnie Douchebag crowd would likely take up arms. I'm not even kidding.
At this point I'd be pretty thrilled if they did. Anything to reduce that demographic in future elections.

Yeah I know that's a tough guy fantasy, but a man can dream.
Yeah, I'm sure the same DOJ that let the Bundy Bunch not pay taxes and point guns at Federal law enforcement would be right on top of that. I wish that was hyperbole.
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Re: 2016 US ELECTION: Official Results Thread

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Ralin wrote:
Flagg wrote: The Donnie Douchebag crowd would likely take up arms. I'm not even kidding.
At this point I'd be pretty thrilled if they did. Anything to reduce that demographic in future elections.

Yeah I know that's a tough guy fantasy, but a man can dream.
The fantasy is that it would be only "deserving" people who would get hurt.

Aside from the fact that wanting an opportunity to "reduce that demographic in future elections" (in other words, actually exterminate the political opposition), is low even by Trumper standards. To be blunt, it sounds more than a little "final solution"-ish.

And, of course, their being no guarantee that the country we had when it was over would be better than what we have now.

I'm going to quote Mr. Pratchett's works here:

"Don't put your trust in revolutions. They always come around again. That's why they're called revolutions."-Sam Vimes.

That applies to both sides, I think, the revolutionaries and the counter-revolutionaries.
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Re: 2016 US ELECTION: Official Results Thread

Post by Ralin »

Flagg wrote: Yeah, I'm sure the same DOJ that let the Bundy Bunch not pay taxes and point guns at Federal law enforcement would be right on top of that. I wish that was hyperbole.
Well, they didn't. It may have taken awhile but Bundy and company were arrested and put on trial for a whole stack of crimes. You can argue over whether waiting so long was the right move or not, but they lined up a mountain of evidence and it's not the FBI's fault that the jury nullified. White right-wingers can get away with a whole lot of shit, no argument there, but you are (I assume?) talking about a scenario where Trump supporters are actively shooting up cops and government employees or some such.
The Romulan Republic wrote:
The fantasy is that it would be only "deserving" people who would get hurt.
Not at all. But the current outlook is that it will be blacks, gays, trans people, etc who get hurt while the fuckwits who supported Trump get their way.
Aside from the fact that wanting an opportunity to "reduce that demographic in future elections" (in other words, actually exterminate the political opposition), is low even by Trumper standards.
Blow me, you insulated little fuck. I've had to talk down a friend of mine who's fucking suicidal from how scared she is about the next four years. No, fantasizing about the deaths of the racist, transphobic born-again shits who voted for Trump so they won't have the chance to cause more harm in the future is not 'low,' especially since I flat out fucking said I know it's a pipe dream.
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Re: 2016 US ELECTION: Official Results Thread

Post by The Romulan Republic »

I'm "insulated" because I don't fantasize about how great it would be if we could kill... how many votes did Trump get?

Ah, about 60 million, looks like.

Just a little shy of the entire death toll of WWII

So blow me yourself. I will not be polite to people who fantasize about great it would be if we could commit mass murder on a scale that would make Hitler jealous.

Edit: Especially since, while you may call it a pipe dream, if enough people say "wouldn't it be great if...", eventually, someone's going to upgrade that to "Maybe we should..."

We have enough domestic terrorism, thanks.
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"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

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Re: 2016 US ELECTION: Official Results Thread

Post by Ralin »

The Romulan Republic wrote:I'm "insulated" because I don't fantasize about how great it would be if we could kill... how many votes did Trump get?

Ah, about 60 million, looks like.

Just a little shy of the entire death toll of WWII

So blow me yourself. I will not be polite to people who fantasize about great it would be if we could commit mass murder on a scale that would make Hitler jealous.

Edit: Especially since, while you may call it a pipe dream, if enough people say "wouldn't it be great if...", eventually, someone's going to upgrade that to "Maybe we should..."

We have enough domestic terrorism, thanks.
Fuckhead, I said I would laugh at the sort of scumfucks who would LITERALLY TAKE UP ARMS AGAINST THE GOVERNMENT TO CONTEST A RECOUNT THAT DIDN'T GO IN THEIR FAVOR being killed by the police and military. You're 'insulated' because you are exactly the sort of privileged liberal who is well off enough to go on about how we have to respect the process and not stoop to the GOP's level and all that shit because you personally don't have a damned reason to expect that you'll be physically threatened by Trump's administration.

And now I've actually used the word 'privilege' non-ironically, so fuck you for that too.
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