SUPERTHREAD: 2020 United States Elections

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The Romulan Republic
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Re: SUPERTHREAD: 2020 United States Elections

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Warren says she's staying in, while Ilhan Omar has implied she should withdraw, and blamed her for dividing the progressive vote and costing Sanders some states:

https://theguardian.com/us-news/2020/ma ... day-future
Five months ago Elizabeth Warren was the Democratic frontrunner. Heading into Super Tuesday, she was in desperate need of winning just a single state, after trailing miserably since Iowa kicked off voting at the start of February.

Instead, Warren watched as all 14 Super Tuesday states went to rivals Joe Biden or Bernie Sanders – including, crushingly, her home state of Massachusetts, where she seems set to finish third.

With the former vice-president and democratic socialist senator now accelerating off into the distance, Warren is in a distant fourth place measured by delegates in the overall Democratic primary – behind even the former New York mayor Mike Bloomberg. Now Warren’s supporters are waiting to see what she will do next. Even before Tuesday, she was being urged to drop out of the race, as #WarrenEndorseBernie trended on Twitter, and erstwhile Warren backers shared videos explaining why they were rescinding their support.

On Wednesday the progressive congresswoman Ilhan Omar, who has endorsed Sanders, appeared to urge Warren to withdraw.

Ilhan Omar
(@IlhanMN)
Imagine if the progressives consolidated last night like the moderates consolidated, who would have won?

That’s what we should be analyzing. I feel confident a united progressive movement would have allowed for us to #BuildTogether and win MN and other states we narrowly lost. https://t.co/lAj2mhI3GR

March 4, 2020
One of Warren’s campaign slogans, however, is “Persist” – a play on the term the Senate majority leader, Mitch McConnell, used to admonish her during the nomination hearing of Jeff Sessions.

At a rally in Detroit on Tuesday night, Warren encouraged people to vote with their heart. “You don’t get what you don’t fight for. I am in this fight,” she said. Michigan’s primary is next week, and Warren has already scheduled a return trip to that state for Friday.

Warren seems to have pinned her hopes on a contested Democratic convention in July.

If no one is able to win a majority of delegates, then the nominee will be decided by party grandees at the Milwaukee gathering. If Warren stays in the race, quietly picking up delegates over the next couple of months, then perhaps at the convention she can twist arms and persuade people to back her at the convention.

That winding path to victory probably isn’t what Warren was envisaging when she announced her campaign for president on 9 February 2019 in Lawrence, Massachusetts.

Speaking at the site of the historic women- and immigrant-led Bread and Roses labor strike, launched more than a hundred years earlier, Warren made it clear she would run a progressive campaign, telling the crowd told the crowd she would “break up monopolies” and “take on Wall Street banks” as president.

They weren’t just empty campaign slogans. Warren immediately published plans on how she would tackle corporate greed, along with her ideas on healthcare and the climate.

Warren had so many ideas, in fact, that it became a key part of her identity.

“I have a plan for that” became Warren’s catchphrase on the campaign stump, and a rallying cry for her supporters. Her campaign overflowed with plans – in time, she would have 80 specific proposals on her official website – and by October she had built convincing leads in Iowa and New Hampshire, the first two states to vote, and was ahead of Biden nationally.

But while Warren had a plan for almost everything she would do as president, she was unprepared for the obstacles that popped up on her way there.

As she rose to the top of the polls, Warren was criticized for dodging questions about how she would fund Medicare for All. After weeks of hedging, Warren eventually admitted she would raise taxes on the middle class, but by then she had taken a blow to her popularity.

Warren also lacked a plan for the rise of Pete Buttigieg, who gobbled up her supporters, and she suffered from the reluctance of Sanders’ adherents to consider a rival progressive candidate. She never came up with an answer to either, and trundled to third place in Iowa, fourth in New Hampshire and Nevada and fifth in South Carolina.

It isn’t over for Warren. There are 32 states still to vote. But after months of decline, it is hard to see how even the woman with a plan for most things can concoct a successful strategy to win the Democratic nomination.
If she honestly is aiming to win at a contested convention, she is a) undemocratic, and b) delusional.

I think it more likely she's just staying in to split the progressive vote to spite Sanders.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

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Re: SUPERTHREAD: 2020 United States Elections

Post by His Divine Shadow »

Trump / Biden is looking very likely, too bad for all the people who can't afford insulin.
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Re: SUPERTHREAD: 2020 United States Elections

Post by The Romulan Republic »

His Divine Shadow wrote: 2020-03-04 03:44am Trump / Biden is looking very likely, too bad for all the people who can't afford insulin.
Eh, a few days ago Bernie was frontrunner, and Biden was all but finished.

I think I'm maybe finally getting to the point where this shit just slides off of me. Its over when its over, and we won't know until then.

If it is Biden vs Trump... well, I'll be backing the guy who isn't a climate denier, isn't a Russian asset, and hasn't accused anyone who opposes him of treason or called Neo-Nazis "very fine people". But I'm also looking forward to Ocasio-Cortez 2028 (for that to happen, of course, Trump has to lose- if he wins we're a dictatorship, and that's that).

That said, the fact that Biden appears to be visibly going senile has me very, very worried. Then again, God knows what Coronavirus and a likely recession will do before election day. Not the way I want to win, but...
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
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Re: SUPERTHREAD: 2020 United States Elections

Post by The Romulan Republic »

https://nbcnews.com/politics/2020-prima ... gate-count

Delegate tally up to:

449 Biden.
372 Sanders.
39 Warren.
26 Buttigieg.
18 Bloomberg.
7 Klobuchar.
1 Gabbard.

Though I'm sure there are still absentee votes to count and such.

With the miserable showings by Warren and Bloomberg, Bloomberg likely out soon, and the other also-rans sans Gabbard out, the good news is that the odds of a contested convention have probably dropped substantially. Bernie's behind but not enough to definitively knock him out (though if Bernie does nothing to change the current trend, Biden might have a fairly unassailable lead by the end of March).

I'd say Bernie has one real chance to turn this around: a brilliant performance in the next debate, and some solid wins on the 10th. Otherwise Biden's momentum is going to run away and that's all she wrote.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
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Re: SUPERTHREAD: 2020 United States Elections

Post by LaCroix »

So - Because this is the time they will most likely start thinking loud about names in order to boost their support...

Who is going to be the most likely VP picks for Sanders or Biden?
Whom would you like to see - because honestly - both candidates are statistically unlikely to serve a full term.
A minute's thought suggests that the very idea of this is stupid. A more detailed examination raises the possibility that it might be an answer to the question "how could the Germans win the war after the US gets involved?" - Captain Seafort, in a thread proposing a 1942 'D-Day' in Quiberon Bay

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Re: SUPERTHREAD: 2020 United States Elections

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The Romulan Republic wrote: 2020-03-04 03:35amI think it more likely she's just staying in to split the progressive vote to spite Sanders.
You know, you and I actually agree here. The difference is, that in my view her behaving this way is proof that I was right to support her all along. She’s willing to do the hard thing to keep us from making a terrible choice.

Don’t worry, though. The Sanders campaign is just a little airborne. It’s still good, it’s still good.
I had a Bill Maher quote here. But fuck him for his white privelegy "joke".

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Re: SUPERTHREAD: 2020 United States Elections

Post by FireNexus »

Bloomberg is out. Thankfully, it is just a few months until I never have to hear about Bernie Sanders again.
I had a Bill Maher quote here. But fuck him for his white privelegy "joke".

All the rest? Too long.
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Re: SUPERTHREAD: 2020 United States Elections

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Yesterday serves as a firm refutation of the Bernie Sanders theory of “non-voters will rise up to vote and force change”. People don’t spend too much effort on young voters because young voters don’t vote. Any reason you can give why they don’t vote doesn’t apply to Bernie, and they still didn’t vote.

Political revolution is a bad plan for implementing policy. Last night proved it’s bad plan for even getting a Democratic nomination.
I had a Bill Maher quote here. But fuck him for his white privelegy "joke".

All the rest? Too long.
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Re: SUPERTHREAD: 2020 United States Elections

Post by FireNexus »

LaCroix wrote: 2020-03-04 08:46am So - Because this is the time they will most likely start thinking loud about names in order to boost their support...

Who is going to be the most likely VP picks for Sanders or Biden?
Whom would you like to see - because honestly - both candidates are statistically unlikely to serve a full term.
Depending on how much animosity they still have, I think Liz Warren might be a good choice. He could go crazy and choose like Rashida Tlaib or AOC, which would be funny as the Bernie left starts explaining why they’re bad now.
I had a Bill Maher quote here. But fuck him for his white privelegy "joke".

All the rest? Too long.
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Re: SUPERTHREAD: 2020 United States Elections

Post by GrandMasterTerwynn »

LaCroix wrote: 2020-03-04 08:46am So - Because this is the time they will most likely start thinking loud about names in order to boost their support...

Who is going to be the most likely VP picks for Sanders or Biden?
Whom would you like to see - because honestly - both candidates are statistically unlikely to serve a full term.
For Biden ... top names tossed out so far are Kamela Harris and Amy Klobuchar. They're both safe picks, although their history as prosecutors may blunt the effect the Obama afterglow has on Biden's African-American support. Cory Booker is another pick I've heard tossed around, but he doesn't really bring anything to the table. Stacey Abrams is another potential name, but she has the same lack-of-experience problem that plagued McCain's VP pick, Sarah Palin.

For the pure brain-melting potential of the pick, I'd float the possibility of a Biden-Warren ticket. While Elizabeth Warren isn't exactly young, she's at least too young to remember William Jennings Bryant. She brings a leftist sensibility that Joe Biden lacks, and would own Mike Pence in the VP debate so hard that people will still be talking about it long after the United States has gone the way of the Roman Empire. However, if there were pick designed to make Sandersistas stay home, this would be it.

As for Sanders, he's not likely to pick a VP candidate that broadens his ideological support. His pick would be someone with with a proven track record as an ideologically-pure surrogate; which substantially shrinks the pool of available candidates. For him, the name I've heard tossed out is Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. She's young, and like Sanders, is a ideological purist. Her chief disadvantage is her age; she'd meet the bare age requirement to succeed Sanders in time for 2024 ... if Sanders keels over while in office, Ocasio-Cortez would actually be ineligible to succeed him.
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Re: SUPERTHREAD: 2020 United States Elections

Post by TimothyC »

FireNexus wrote: 2020-03-04 11:05am He could go crazy and choose like Rashida Tlaib or AOC, which would be funny as the Bernie left starts explaining why they’re bad now.
Rep. Occasio-Cortez isn't old enough. She won't be until 2024.
GrandMasterTerwynn wrote: 2020-03-04 11:11am if Sanders keels over while in office, Ocasio-Cortez would actually be ineligible to succeed him.
She can't be VP anyway as the position has the same requirements as being president. That one could become president is the requirement to hold the office.
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Re: SUPERTHREAD: 2020 United States Elections

Post by GrandMasterTerwynn »

In other news Warren is now in a team huddle to "assess the path forward." She's got a lot of money on hand, but also a lot of people to pay, and no path to viability that doesn't involve time travel.

So Warren may well be out before the weekend.
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Re: SUPERTHREAD: 2020 United States Elections

Post by GrandMasterTerwynn »

TimothyC wrote: 2020-03-04 11:13am
FireNexus wrote: 2020-03-04 11:05am He could go crazy and choose like Rashida Tlaib or AOC, which would be funny as the Bernie left starts explaining why they’re bad now.
Rep. Occasio-Cortez isn't old enough. She won't be until 2024.
GrandMasterTerwynn wrote: 2020-03-04 11:11am if Sanders keels over while in office, Ocasio-Cortez would actually be ineligible to succeed him.
She can't be VP anyway as the position has the same requirements as being president. That one could become president is the requirement to hold the office.
Well, shit, what pure ideologue would Sanders pick then, Rashida Tlaib?
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Re: SUPERTHREAD: 2020 United States Elections

Post by bilateralrope »

What happens if it's looking like a contested convention between Bernie and Biden, only for one of them to drop out and endorse the other one saying that they don't want to risk it helping Trump win ?

Obviously, there are a lot of variables around that question that might affect the outcome.
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Re: SUPERTHREAD: 2020 United States Elections

Post by FireNexus »

GrandMasterTerwynn wrote: 2020-03-04 11:20am
TimothyC wrote: 2020-03-04 11:13am
FireNexus wrote: 2020-03-04 11:05am He could go crazy and choose like Rashida Tlaib or AOC, which would be funny as the Bernie left starts explaining why they’re bad now.
Rep. Occasio-Cortez isn't old enough. She won't be until 2024.
GrandMasterTerwynn wrote: 2020-03-04 11:11am if Sanders keels over while in office, Ocasio-Cortez would actually be ineligible to succeed him.
She can't be VP anyway as the position has the same requirements as being president. That one could become president is the requirement to hold the office.
Well, shit, what pure ideologue would Sanders pick then, Rashida Tlaib?
Nope. Tlaib didn’t endorse him.
I had a Bill Maher quote here. But fuck him for his white privelegy "joke".

All the rest? Too long.
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Re: SUPERTHREAD: 2020 United States Elections

Post by GrandMasterTerwynn »

FireNexus wrote: 2020-03-04 11:03am Yesterday serves as a firm refutation of the Bernie Sanders theory of “non-voters will rise up to vote and force change”. People don’t spend too much effort on young voters because young voters don’t vote. Any reason you can give why they don’t vote doesn’t apply to Bernie, and they still didn’t vote.

Political revolution is a bad plan for implementing policy. Last night proved it’s bad plan for even getting a Democratic nomination.
The thing is, the writing on the wall was right there for everyone to see for months.

Where has Sanders been at in, in national polls, since the season kicked off? Around 20-25%, with the occasional excursion to 15-30%.
How well did Sanders do in virtually all the contests held to date? Around 20-25%, with the occasional excursion to 15-30%.

Sanders' strength has always been the weakness of the rest of the field. In 2016, he benefited greatly from people turned off by Hillary Clinton's negatives. In 2020, he benefited from a splintered field. Once the Not-Sanders lane coalesced around someone, anyone; Sanders would be toast.

He does get credit for finding a new demographic vein to mine for young leftists (i.e. his support among young Latinx voters,) but this was not the kind of base-broadening he needed to not frighten away the rest of the Democratic Party.

EDIT: Also, the most damning evidence against Sanders as a strong candidate ... the fact that he was crushed in Super Tuesday by a man who can't go more than five minutes without committing some kind of hilariously unforced error. Biden started his victory lap by, of all things, confusing his wife for his sister.
Nope. Tlaib didn’t endorse him.
Damnitall, that's right, she endorsed Warren.
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Re: SUPERTHREAD: 2020 United States Elections

Post by EnterpriseSovereign »

GrandMasterTerwynn wrote: 2020-03-03 07:51pm
GrandMasterTerwynn wrote: 2020-03-03 07:45pm Also, Bloomberg, for whatever reason, won American Samoa.
While polls are still open in North Carolina for the next twenty minutes, or so, ABC News has already called North Carolina for Biden, based on exit polling.
Doesn't matter, Bloomberg has pulled out and is backing Biden (whose recovery has surprised many) now.
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Re: SUPERTHREAD: 2020 United States Elections

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Bernie Sanders couldn’t create a political revolution capable of beating Hillary Clinton. It’s looking as if he can’t create a political revolution capable of beating Joe Biden.

Any journalist who doesn’t lead with the following every time they talk to Sanders or a surrogate is committing journalistic malpractice: “You couldn’t create a political revolution capable of beating Joe Biden on Super Tuesday. What does that say about the political revolution you say will get Medicare For All done?”
I had a Bill Maher quote here. But fuck him for his white privelegy "joke".

All the rest? Too long.
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Re: SUPERTHREAD: 2020 United States Elections

Post by Gandalf »

I'm going to laugh if Trump bring up Biden's Iraq vote against him in a debate.
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Re: SUPERTHREAD: 2020 United States Elections

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In “exactly the kind of shit that justifies Warren if she is staying in just to fuck with Bernie because he’s an asshole” news, he shared details of their private conversation in a press conference in an apparent effort to pressure her to drop out:

https://twitter.com/mattdpearce/status/ ... 35904?s=21

I can’t figure out why so many people don’t want to endorse Bernie Sanders. It’s not at all clear that he’s a giant asshole who is bad at politics.

I hope she endorses Biden. Because I know that her endorsement will carry a lot of weight, and Bernie seems to have spent months doing all he can to destroy her rather than try and build bridges. Culminating in this horseshit.
I had a Bill Maher quote here. But fuck him for his white privelegy "joke".

All the rest? Too long.
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Re: SUPERTHREAD: 2020 United States Elections

Post by Darth Yan »

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... e-process/

Warren should have dropped out. Bernie might have done better if she had
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Re: SUPERTHREAD: 2020 United States Elections

Post by Coop D'etat »

Gandalf wrote: 2020-03-04 02:48pm I'm going to laugh if Trump bring up Biden's Iraq vote against him in a debate.
Of course he is. The real question is whether anyone will care.
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Re: SUPERTHREAD: 2020 United States Elections

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Darth Yan wrote: 2020-03-04 04:28pm https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... e-process/

Warren should have dropped out. Bernie might have done better if she had
Going the other way, as it's increasingly clear that Sanders has a ceiling of support, perhaps he should have dropped out so Warren might have done better. :P
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Electric shocking body rocking beat streeting me to death"

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Re: SUPERTHREAD: 2020 United States Elections

Post by Darth Yan »

Warren got clobbered on Super Tuesday. Bernie has more support than her
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Re: SUPERTHREAD: 2020 United States Elections

Post by Gandalf »

Darth Yan wrote: 2020-03-04 08:05pm Warren got clobbered on Super Tuesday. Bernie has more support than her
Can he increase that support to be enough to win the relevant amount of delegates? Because right now it's looking... rough.
"Oh no, oh yeah, tell me how can it be so fair
That we dying younger hiding from the police man over there
Just for breathing in the air they wanna leave me in the chair
Electric shocking body rocking beat streeting me to death"

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