Ukraine reacts to fears of Russian invasion as troops build up at the border

[Ralin]

But if these reports turn out to be true... Well, at that point it doesn't really matter if ethnic cleansing was a policy objective or not because genocide by gross negligence is still genocide. And using chemical weapons against enemy positions in a built up area goes several orders of magnitude beyond inadequate risk management.

No see this is totally the fault of the Ukrainians for fighting back and not accepting that Russia is winning the war. What are you, some kind of Nazi?

[Elfdart]

Since you are even more stupid than you are dishonest, I'll go to the trouble of educating you. Heads of state usually don't go out and commit crimes themselves. They have stooges do it for them. The fact that Zelinsky promoted that Nazi thug and gave him a medal, proclaiming him a "hero" when his record of being a Nazi and murderer is well-known shows that Zelinsky approves of his conduct OR he's too weak to distance himself from Right Sector, Azov or other Nazi groups.

Of course they don’t, dumdum. But when someone says a head of state committed a war crime that implies they ordered someone to do it, or at least deliberately set up a situation where it would happen. Pretty sure you know that. Pretty sure you knew you couldn’t give an example of Zelensky doing that, which is why you did your little switch to ‘supports’ and pretended you were addressing the original point.

So in your little dream world, promoting and giving medals to known mass murderers in your service doesn't count as trying to "deliberately set up a situation where it [war crimes] would happen". Even Nixon didn't give a medal to Calley and praise him as a hero of the Republic. And yes, Nixon was a war criminal.

Bitch, stop lying. Ukraine is the only country on the face of this earth where members of the armed forces or other security services are allowed to wear Nazi insignia on their uniforms. This practice is so commonplace in Ukraine that even when they (or their NATIO sponsors) try to post feel-good photos on social media, they end up having to take them down because their "heroes" are sporting SS lightning bolts, the wolfsangel, or the Black Sun. It's like Dr Strangelove's right arm!

Which is terrible if true and all,

IF true. You realize that by your fucktarded reasoning, you are a denier.

but 1) open insignia or not many militaries have horribly racist, murderous and generally terrible people in their ranks and 2) no part of this means that Ukrainians somehow don’t have a right to self-government or national sovereignty or not being tied up and shot by Russian troops.

But they don't have a right to weapons, money or other support from other countries, nor are they entitled to have their atrocities and fondness for Nazi ideology, tactics and regalia whitewashed without rebuttal. Even if it does make laptop warlords feel awkward when it's pointed out that they support Nazis.

Feel free to quote where I say Putin's invasion was a good idea, or was justified.

Oh you didn’t explicitly say it

Can't back up your lies or your bullshit claims? Concession accepted. Now go play in traffic, shitstain.

[GuppyShark]

What the fuck is alt-left, by the way? Someone disagrees with you on one thing and suddenly they're not a real leftist?

[Ralin]

So in your little dream world, promoting and giving medals to known mass murderers in your service doesn't count as trying to "deliberately set up a situation where it [war crimes] would happen". Even Nixon didn't give a medal to Calley and praise him as a hero of the Republic. And yes, Nixon was a war criminal.

Potentially, yeah, but it’s still a big leap between that and actually being a war criminal.

IF true. You realize that by your fucktarded reasoning, you are a denier.

Yeah. If true. I’m not up on the sins of every single military in the world, and it’s not like you’re a trustworthy source.

But they don't have a right to weapons, money or other support from other countries, nor are they entitled to have their atrocities and fondness for Nazi ideology, tactics and regalia whitewashed without rebuttal. Even if it does make laptop warlords feel awkward when it's pointed out that they support Nazis.

They don’t have the right, no. But by itself it isn’t a good reason to react with indignation at the thought of helping them as a country defend themselves and their citizens against Russian invasion like you pretended.

Can't back up your lies or your bullshit claims? Concession accepted. Now go play in traffic, shitstain.

Haven’t conceded anything, dumdum.

But as much as you pretend otherwise context is a thing. You’ve gone out of your way to smear the Ukrainian government and military (including President Zelensky, noted Jew) as Nazis, just like actual Russian propaganda. You took the example of some neo-Nazis in Ukrainian military and used that as a jumping off point to soapbox about how you are outraged, absolutely outraged at the idea that the US or other allied countries should support the horrible Ukrainian government that allowed such things [in defending themselves against Russian invasion]. Going all in condemning the Ukrainian government and the idea of supporting them [with military and economic aid] while handwaving Russia’s ongoing crimes against them is an implicit defense of Putin’s invasion.

But hey, we’re not really debating, this is just you doing your performance art thing secure in the knowledge that you can't be banned because Wong always had a soft spot for you. So now that you’ve done your trolling go scurry back to the children’s table.

[Ralin]

What the fuck is alt-left, by the way? Someone disagrees with you on one thing and suddenly they're not a real leftist?

It's mostly just a way of mocking him for his bullshit. With a bit of "Is this how old-school Republicans feel about Trump and his people?" mixed in.

[Elfdart]

Just in case you thought we hadn't reached the absolute nadir, now we've got reports of chemical weapons being deployed in Mariupol.

Wow, my last post in this thread aged really well, didn't it? I was amenable to giving the Russians the benefit of a tiny scrap of doubt until more details came to light, because digging one big trench for all the bodies recovered after a battle isn't a war crime all by itself, even if some of them weren't carrying weapons when they died: There's a war going on, innocent people will get caught in the crossfire no matter what steps either side take to manage the risk.

But if these reports turn out to be true... Well, at that point it doesn't really matter if ethnic cleansing was a policy objective or not because genocide by gross negligence is still genocide. And using chemical weapons against enemy positions in a built up area goes several orders of magnitude beyond inadequate risk management.

So let me get this straight: As word gets out that the Ukrainian troops in Mariupol, who said they would fight to the death, are about to hoist the white flag -leaving a few Azov Einsatzgruppen to be mopped up- there's a convenient bullshit story about nerve gas? If the Russians were going to use it, they would have used it near Kiev (where they were stymied), not in Mariupol (where they are winning and the city almost completely taken).

Apparently, flailing about in impotent rage and making absurd accusations with no evidence to back them up is standard procedure for losers. Maybe they learned this from Ralin.

[Ralin]

Apparently, flailing about in impotent rage and making absurd accusations with no evidence to back them up is standard procedure for losers. Maybe they learned this from Ralin.

Tell us again about how you don't condone Russia's invasion of the Ukraine (but will toss out everything you can think of to mock and villify the Ukrainians resisting it).

[His Divine Shadow]

If there's a country with a nazi problem, I'd say Russia is the country with the biggest problem by far.

[Ralin]

If there's a country with a nazi problem, I'd say Russia is the country with the biggest problem by far.

And very conspiciously not mentioning or acknowledging that while pulling out every piece of dirty laundry about the Ukrainian government he can find or exaggerate makes it very clear that Elfdart is trying to shill for the Russian side without coming out and saying he supports Ukraine getting whatever Putin decides is coming to them.

[Ralin]

Or alternatively Elfdart just feels the need to post about the sins of the Ukrainian government without any regard whatsoever for the fact that they are currently being invaded and their citizens murdered by the military of a larger country in a war they didn't start. No agenda, he's just bringing this stuff up because Ukrainian Nazis are his thing and Russian Nazis aren't. This is a realistic possibility and absolutely something a person would do.

[Zwinmar]

You invade a country then the entire populace of that country has every right and, it could be argued, the responsibility to use any means necessary to repel the invader. In the case of an invasion do not be surprised if everyone in the country, no matter their affiliation, to oppose said invaders.

While certain actions probably shouldn't be taken, Ukraine has a very real justification to use whatever equipment and tactics they wish to repel the invader. The fact is that the KGB tyrant is throwing a hissy fit because things didn't go his way and I would fully expect him to escalate to any degree while Ukraine has shown real tenacity fighting them off.

[GuppyShark]

Of course, because Elfdart is a Russian asset bought and paid for by the oligarchs

[wautd]

But if these reports turn out to be true... Well, at that point it doesn't really matter if ethnic cleansing was a policy objective or not because genocide by gross negligence is still genocide. And using chemical weapons against enemy positions in a built up area goes several orders of magnitude beyond inadequate risk management.

No see this is totally the fault of the Ukrainians for fighting back and not accepting that Russia is winning the war. What are you, some kind of Nazi?

Sadly, Ive seen that kind of perverse reasoning/victim blaming far too much on social media lately
Although I wonder how much are fake Russian propaganda troll accounts, given a lot are only a few months old

[Ralin]

Of course, because Elfdart is a Russian asset bought and paid for by the oligarchs

Well duh, no shit he isn't. And it's not like Russia is anything like a left-wing state. There's no real ideological reason to be shilling for them, other than a general desire for the US to have rivals strong enough to give third-parties wiggle room in dealing with them. Far as I know he doesn't have family there and isn't trying to impress some hot Russian woman. Like I said, it's performance art. Can't really explain this as anything other than him enjoying being crude and contrary and spending years climbing onto a giant heap of stupid that in this case requires him to TOTALLY NOT CHEER FOR BUT the side invading a neighbor they thought was weak enough to fuck over fast because that would require actual introspection about how he got there.

[ray245]

Of course, because Elfdart is a Russian asset bought and paid for by the oligarchs

Well duh, no shit he isn't. And it's not like Russia is anything like a left-wing state. There's no real ideological reason to be shilling for them, other than a general desire for the US to have rivals strong enough to give third-parties wiggle room in dealing with them. Far as I know he doesn't have family there and isn't trying to impress some hot Russian woman. Like I said, it's performance art. Can't really explain this as anything other than him enjoying being crude and contrary and spending years climbing onto a giant heap of stupid that in this case requires him to TOTALLY NOT CHEER FOR BUT the side invading a neighbor they thought was weak enough to fuck over fast because that would require actual introspection about how he got there.

There's another alternative name that better suit Elfdart, aka Tankies.

[EnterpriseSovereign]

In case there was doubt: Bucha's mayor says at least 400 bodies discovered so far after retreat of Russian troops.

The mayor of Bucha in Ukraine has outlined the devastating consequences of Russian occupation in the town and neighbouring villages, saying the bodies of 403 people have so far been found.

Anatoliy Fedoruk warned this figure would likely grow, as the extent of the atrocities committed in Bucha, a town near Kyiv, continues to be revealed since its recapture by Ukrainian forces some two weeks ago.

Mr Fedoruk, who has said that at least three sites of mass shootings of civilians have been unearthed by investigators, added that it was too early for residents to return to the town.

A wealthy northwest Kyiv commuter town before Ukraine was invaded over six weeks ago, the name of Bucha is now synonymous with Russian war crimes.

US President Joe Biden joined the chorus of international condemnation over Russian atrocities there, saying that Vladimir Putin should face a "war crimes trial" after the killings.

ITV News has investigated three separate atrocities in Bucha which reflect the wider indiscriminate assaults carried out by invading forces during the war.

One of these was the death of Dmitro Stefianko.

According to witness testimony, he was shot dead by the side of a road by Russian troops in March after encountering half a dozen of them on his way to look for supplies.

Dmitro’s body eventually ended up in a mass grave next to St. Andrew’s Church in Bucha, with dozens of other civilians.

Our investigation found multiple locations in Bucha where there is evidence Russian soldiers were engaged in orchestrated murder. We investigated two of these massacres.
One was discovered on April 1 in the cellar of a Soviet-era children’s camp on the edge of a large park in Bucha. The bodies of five men were found in the basement.
Two miles to the south of the children’s camp is the site of another mass killing, where at least 11 people were murdered.

The bodies of men bearing signs of torture were found to the side of an agriculture construction agency next to a builders yard, in a residential area.

Still, Russian officials have denied hitting civilian targets, deriding the mounting documentation of atrocities as “fake news”.

ITV News Correspondent Dan Rivers, who was in Bucha last week, had heard accounts of rape and mass executions, and was shown mass graves in the city after the Russians withdrew.
Some of the dead were buried by friends near their homes in marked graves, but many more were hastily interned in mass graves, with no headstones or even identification.

[EnterpriseSovereign]

UK warns Putin 'all options are on the table' if chemical weapon attack claims are confirmed.

The UK has warned that "all options are on the table" if claims that Russian forces used chemical weapons in an attack on the Ukrainian city of Mariupol are proven to be true.

Soldiers were left dizzy and unable to breathe after a “poisonous substance of unknown origin” was dropped on them from a Russian drone, reported the Azov Battalion - a paramilitary group with links to neo-Nazism.

An Azov fighter in the besieged city told ITV News they have been treating the injured and are trying to get samples out of the city to test exactly what suspected gas was used - but they currently cannot get past Russian forces.

They believe it was a chemical attack and reported seeing white smoke being released from canisters that were dropped from drones above. Soldiers have reportedly suffered fainting, respiratory problems, and blackouts.

The UK said it is "working urgently" to verify the claims but Armed Forces Minister James Heappey threatened action against Russian President Vladimir Putin if they are confirmed, warning him to "not test" Britain and its allies.

Mr Heappey told ITV News: "There's a value in being ambiguous because I don't think what you want to do is to say to Vladimir Putin the consequence of using nuclear weapons is exactly this, so he gets to make a judgement about whether or not it's worth using them.

"He has to know that the prime minister of the United Kingdom, the president of the United States, the president of France and other allies have spoken about this and that all options really are on the table.

"And if I were him, I wouldn't test us to try and test what that means."

Reports of the chemical attacks are certainly an escalation in Russia's six-week attack on Ukraine, reports ITV News Correspondent Peter Smith, in Kyiv

Britain is increasingly worried that Russia could use white phosphorus munitions in the bombardment of the city.

White phosphorous burns at extremely high temperatures and is often used to illuminate conflict zones or obscure them with smoke. It can cause horrific burns, respiratory damage, infection, shock, and organ failure, according to Human Rights Watch.

Three weeks ago, ITV News filmed Russians dropping, what some experts believed, could be white phosphorous bombs on Irpin, a town on the outskirts of the capital, Kyiv.

Other key developments:

Nearly two-thirds of all Ukrainian children, 4.8 million, have fled their homes since Russia launched its invasion of Ukraine on February 24, according to UNICEF

President Putin said he has "no doubt" Russia will "achieve our goals" in Ukraine

Fighting in eastern Ukraine "will intensify" over the next two to three weeks, as Russia continues to focus efforts in the area, says the UK Ministry of Defence

More than 10,000 civilians killed in Mariupol - but the true death toll could be double, says the city's mayor

US President Joe Biden urges India's Prime Minister Narendra Modi not to step up buying of Russian oil, as the US and other nations attempt to cut off Moscow's energy income

Officials have found "evidence of execution" and reports of mass graves in the city of Buzova after Russian troops withdrew, mounting allegations of Russian war crimes

Following the reports of the use of chemical weapons, Foreign Secretary Liz Truss vowed that the UK would hold President Putin “and his regime to account” if the claims are proven.

“Reports that Russian forces may have used chemical agents in an attack on the people of Mariupol. We are working urgently with partners to verify details," Ms Truss said in a tweet.

“Any use of such weapons would be a callous escalation in this conflict and we will hold Putin and his regime to account.”

The allegations came as President Putin said "there is no doubt that we will achieve our goals" in Ukraine and that Russia's economy has successfully resisted new Western sanctions, which he called the "blitz".

Speaking during his first known trip outside of Moscow since Russia invaded Ukraine on February 24 to the Vostochny space launch facility in Russia's Far East, Putin said the Russian military action in Ukraine aims to "ensure Russia's own security".

Putin reaffirmed his claim that the Russian “special military operation” was aimed to protect people in areas in eastern Ukraine controlled by Moscow-backed rebels.

He argued that Ukraine has been turned into an “anti-Russian bridgehead” where “sprouts of nationalism and neo-Nazism were being cultivated” - something Ukraine and its Western allies have dismissed as a cover for aggression.

Putin said “we had no other choice" but to take action and told the West that "common sense should prevail, adding: “They won’t be able to shut all the doors and windows.”

The chemical attack allegations in Mariupol came as the city's mayor, Vadym Boychenko, said corpses are now “carpeted through the streets” of the southeastern port city after Russian troops killed more than 10,000 civilians in their unsuccessful fight to capture it.

He believes the true death toll could surpass 20,000.

Mr Boychenko also gave new details of allegations by Ukrainian officials that Russian forces have been using "mobile crematoriums" in Mariupol to dispose of the corpses of victims of the attacks.

“Mobile crematoriums have arrived in the form of trucks: You open it, and there is a pipe inside and these bodies are burned,” he said.

Russian forces have taken many bodies to a huge shopping centre where there are storage facilities and fridges, the mayor added.

Mr Boychenko accused Russian forces of blocking weeks of attempted humanitarian convoys into the southeastern port city in part to conceal the devastation suffered during the six-week war, meaning information remains limited on circumstances inside the city.

A video from inside Mariupol shows rows upon rows of destroyed buildings and deserted streets covered in rubble and debris.

In another, Russian tanks brandishing "Z" on the side are seen moving close to Mariupol's harbour, while explosions and gunshots can be heard nearby.

Meanwhile, the UK's Ministry of Defence (MoD) said Russian forces are continuing to withdraw from Belarus so they can redeploy troops to support operations in the east, where fighting "will intensify over the next two to three weeks as Russia continues to refocus its efforts there".

The MoD said the Kremlin's attacks remain focused on Donetsk and Luhansk, in the east, but there has been further fighting around the southern cities of Kherson, Mykolaiv and a "renewed push" towards the eastern city of Kramatorsk - where more than 50 people were killed and hundreds more wounded in a missile attack on a train station evacuating civilians last week.

Speaking late on Monday night, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy called for more severe international sanctions against Russia to prevent it from using chemical weapons.

In his nightly television address, Mr Zelenskyy condemned separatists' statements calling for the use of "chemical forces" against Ukrainian troops defending Mariupol.

Donetsk People's Republic militia spokesperson Eduard Basurin said on Russian State TV that in order to defeat Ukrainian forces that have been holding out against Moscow's assaults in the area of the Azovstal Metallurgy plant, it was necessary to approach "chemical troops who will find a way to smoke out molls from their holes".

Mr Zelenskyy called on the European Union for a new, tougher sanctions package against Russia "such that not even a word about weapons of mass destruction from the Russian side will be made".

Western officials think Russia wants to bring about the fall of Mariupol to both free up troops for the fight in the Donbas region but also to create a route north for the Kremlin’s forces as they look to form a pincer movement on Ukrainian defenders in the east.

President Zelenskyy's pleas for more support came after Austria's chancellor, Karl Nehammer, visited Putin in Moscow - the first European leader to meet him since the start of his invasion. He described the meeting as "very direct, open and tough" and stressed it was "not a friendly visit".

In his conversation with Putin, Mr Nehammer said he raised the issue of “serious war crimes” committed by the Russian military in the Ukrainian city of Bucha and others, adding: "All those who are responsible will be held to account."

Austria is a member of the EU - though it is militarily neutral and is not a member of NATO - and has backed the 27-nation bloc’s sanctions against Russia - though it so far has opposed cutting off deliveries of Russian gas.

Meanwhile, in the US, President Joe Biden held a video meeting with India's Prime Minister Narendra Modi to ask him not to accelerate the buying of Russian oil, as the US and other countries attempt to cut off Moscow's energy income to further isolate the Kremlin.

Mr Biden told Mr Modi that the US could help India diversify its sources of energy, according to press secretary Jen Psaki. The Indian PM made no public commitment to refrain from Russian oil - a source of tension with the US.

It comes as Mariupol is expected to fall into Russian hands within the next few hours, after Ukrainian forces said Monday was their "last stand" for the city.

It said in a statement that it has resorted to sending in cooks and members of the orchestra to fight because they have run out of infantry.

It's not the threat of weapons that are worrying Ukrainians in the east, but that forces defending the city of Mariupol said Monday is their last stand, ITV News Correspondent Peter Smith in Kyiv reported late on Monday night

The 36th Marine Brigade, that has been defending Mariupol for Ukraine for the past six weeks, has announced they are running out of ammunition and they are surrounded, ITV News Correspondent Peter Smith reported.

Officials have said Putin will double or even possibly triple the number of Russian troops in the Donbas region as the Russian president resorts to a “diminished” invasion strategy.

The amassing of troops, however, will not necessarily give Moscow an advantage over Ukraine, with Kyiv’s forces having had success in pushing back insurgents in the east of the country, they said.

Putin has been forced to “diminish considerably” the plan in Ukraine, one official said, amid suggestions the Russian leader wants to take the Donbas region before May 9 – when Russia traditionally marks the Soviet Union’s Second World War victory against Nazi Germany with military parades in Moscow – in an attempt to claim victory for his so-called “special operation”.

Meanwhile, late on Monday, Ukraine’s parliament said Russian forces had fired on nitric acid tanks in Donetsk, with residents of the eastern city urged to prepare “protective face masks soaked in soda solution”.

In Buzova, a village outside of Kyiv, the Foreign Office said it was “shocked” by reports of mass graves being found.

Local officials said bodies showing “evidence of execution” had been discovered following the Russian withdrawal.

Buzova is near Bucha, another town where atrocities, including a mass grave containing 67 bodies, were discovered – although Russia has claimed the scenes from the aftermath of its occupation were staged.

The UK will work with allies to “investigate war crimes and ensure justice is done”, a Foreign Office spokesperson said.

It came as the UN's children’s agency said nearly two-thirds of all Ukrainian children have fled their homes in the six weeks since Russia’s invasion began.

It has verified 142 children have been killed and 229 injured - though the actual numbers are likely much higher.

Manuel Fontaine, UNICEF’s emergency programs director who returned from Ukraine last week, told the UN Security Council on Monday that of the 3.2 million children estimated to have remained in their homes “nearly half may be at risk of not having enough food."

He added that attacks on water system infrastructure and power outages have left an estimated 1.4 million people in the country without access to water.

He said the situation is worse in cities like Mariupol and Kherson in the south, which have been besieged by Russian forces where children and their families have spent weeks without running water, sanitation or a regular supply of food.

[Broomstick]

Wouldn't it be grand if the Azov battalion could use a drone to fly samples out of the city so there could be a proper determination as to whether or not there was a chemical attack, and if so, what was used?

[Gandalf]

There's another alternative name that better suit Elfdart, aka Tankies.

Tankie means an authoritarian flavour of communism. Not a lot of that coming from Elfdart here.

You invade a country then the entire populace of that country has every right and, it could be argued, the responsibility to use any means necessary to repel the invader.

I'd say that statement has a lot of wiggle room, for various values of states, invaded, and "any means necessary."

[Bedlam]

You invade a country then the entire populace of that country has every right and, it could be argued, the responsibility to use any means necessary to repel the invader. In the case of an invasion do not be surprised if everyone in the country, no matter their affiliation, to oppose said invaders.

While certain actions probably shouldn't be taken, Ukraine has a very real justification to use whatever equipment and tactics they wish to repel the invader. The fact is that the KGB tyrant is throwing a hissy fit because things didn't go his way and I would fully expect him to escalate to any degree while Ukraine has shown real tenacity fighting them off.

This sort of thing makes the distinction between combatant and civilian very murky, if any civilian might stab one of your troops, poison your food, blow up your vehicles, etc then you don't have any reason at all not to pre-emptively kill all of them just to save your own people. You could argue that this is already happening but it gives a reason for mass murder.

[Zaune]

Wouldn't it be grand if the Azov battalion could use a drone to fly samples out of the city so there could be a proper determination as to whether or not there was a chemical attack, and if so, what was used?

Indeed it would, but if they have any drones with the necessary flight time they need them where they are to monitor enemy troop movements. And do the Azov battalion even have the equipment to carry out chemical residue tests, or soldiers trained to use it? I can't imagine that was very high up on the to-do list for the regular army officers and NCOs riding herd on them.

[Ralin]

In case there was doubt: Bucha's mayor says at least 400 bodies discovered so far after retreat of Russian troops.

The mayor of Bucha in Ukraine has outlined the devastating consequences of Russian occupation in the town and neighbouring villages, saying the bodies of 403 people have so far been found.

Anatoliy Fedoruk warned this figure would likely grow, as the extent of the atrocities committed in Bucha, a town near Kyiv, continues to be revealed since its recapture by Ukrainian forces some two weeks ago.

Mr Fedoruk, who has said that at least three sites of mass shootings of civilians have been unearthed by investigators, added that it was too early for residents to return to the town.

A wealthy northwest Kyiv commuter town before Ukraine was invaded over six weeks ago, the name of Bucha is now synonymous with Russian war crimes.

US President Joe Biden joined the chorus of international condemnation over Russian atrocities there, saying that Vladimir Putin should face a "war crimes trial" after the killings.

ITV News has investigated three separate atrocities in Bucha which reflect the wider indiscriminate assaults carried out by invading forces during the war.

One of these was the death of Dmitro Stefianko.

According to witness testimony, he was shot dead by the side of a road by Russian troops in March after encountering half a dozen of them on his way to look for supplies.

Dmitro’s body eventually ended up in a mass grave next to St. Andrew’s Church in Bucha, with dozens of other civilians.

Our investigation found multiple locations in Bucha where there is evidence Russian soldiers were engaged in orchestrated murder. We investigated two of these massacres.
One was discovered on April 1 in the cellar of a Soviet-era children’s camp on the edge of a large park in Bucha. The bodies of five men were found in the basement.
Two miles to the south of the children’s camp is the site of another mass killing, where at least 11 people were murdered.

The bodies of men bearing signs of torture were found to the side of an agriculture construction agency next to a builders yard, in a residential area.

Still, Russian officials have denied hitting civilian targets, deriding the mounting documentation of atrocities as “fake news”.

ITV News Correspondent Dan Rivers, who was in Bucha last week, had heard accounts of rape and mass executions, and was shown mass graves in the city after the Russians withdrew.
Some of the dead were buried by friends near their homes in marked graves, but many more were hastily interned in mass graves, with no headstones or even identification.

It's so terrible what the Ukrainian Nazi regime is willing to do to its own people to make themselves look like the victims!

[Zwinmar]

You invade a country then the entire populace of that country has every right and, it could be argued, the responsibility to use any means necessary to repel the invader. In the case of an invasion do not be surprised if everyone in the country, no matter their affiliation, to oppose said invaders.

While certain actions probably shouldn't be taken, Ukraine has a very real justification to use whatever equipment and tactics they wish to repel the invader. The fact is that the KGB tyrant is throwing a hissy fit because things didn't go his way and I would fully expect him to escalate to any degree while Ukraine has shown real tenacity fighting them off.

This sort of thing makes the distinction between combatant and civilian very murky, if any civilian might stab one of your troops, poison your food, blow up your vehicles, etc then you don't have any reason at all not to pre-emptively kill all of them just to save your own people. You could argue that this is already happening but it gives a reason for mass murder.

Ehhh. Not really, you are either a combatant or a non-combatant with it changing from moment to moment. My point in more inline with once they cross that line and start killing your people then the only right they have is what you are willing to give them.

[Edi]

Elfdart, since you've decided to turn into a full Russian shill who is parroting the Kremlin propaganda line to the hilt, I have five, sincerely heartfelt words for you: Go die in a fire.

That's all the response you're going to get.

[EnterpriseSovereign]

Russia says Moskva Black Sea flagship seriously damaged after fire but Ukraine claims missile strike.

Russia says the flagship of its Black Sea fleet has been seriously damaged following an explosion, which Ukraine claims was the result of a missile strike.

The Russian Defence Ministry said a fire onboard the Moskva missile-guided cruiser caused ammunition to detonate and blow up.

But Maksym Marchenko, the Ukrainian governor of the region around the Black Sea port of Odesa, said Ukrainian forces struck the cruiser with two missiles and caused "serious damage".

Ukrainian officials later said the ship was sunk, describing it as a “resounding slap in the face” to Moscow’s forces.

Moscow said the causes of the fire "were being established" - and did not confirm that it was hit by Ukraine, later adding that the fire had been contained and explosions of the ammunitions ceased.

The ministry said Moskva's entire crew was evacuated.

The cruiser, which carries 16 missiles, usually has about 500 officers and crew on board, so its removal from combat would greatly reduce Russia’s firepower in the Black Sea.

But despite Ukraine's claims that the ship had sunk, the Russian Defence Ministry said the vessel remains afloat and will be towed to the port, adding: "The main missile weapons were not damaged."

ITV News has not yet been able to independently verify either side's claims.

The Moskva is the same ship Ukrainians defending Snake Island, off the south coast, told to go "f*** yourself" after Russians demanded they surrender.

Officials said the soldiers - who made headlines around the world - had been killed moments after their defiant message.

But the group was actually taken prisoner, said Ukrainian officials, who were later released from captivity as part of a prisoner exchange with Russian forces.

Satellite images show the Moskva cruiser in and close to the Black Sea port of Sevastopol, in Crimea, days before it was damaged, on April 7 and April 10, according to Maxar Technologies.

The Moskva cruiser is the second major Russian ship known to have suffered serious damage since Moscow invaded Ukraine, after tank carrier Orsk was hit and set on fire in the Sea of Azov in late March.

Ukraine claimed it had destroyed the Russian ship, capable of carrying 20 tanks, 45 armoured vehicles and 400 troops in the occupied port city of Berdyansk, and was a "huge target".

Military analyst Oleg Zhdanov said the damaging of the Moskva significantly raises the morale of Ukrainian forces on the eve of a new wave of Russian offensive in the Donbas.

The UK's Ministry of Defence (MoD) warned Russian President Vladimir Putin's speech on Tuesday - during which he repeated his statement that he had launched a "special military operation" against Ukraine to protect Russia - highlighted his focus remains firmly on eastern Ukraine.

It said Russia is striking Ukrainian forces in the Donbas region to prepare for a fresh attack, and that the towns of Kramatorsk and Kostiantynivka are likely to be targets for similar levels of violence seen in other urban centres throughout the invasion.


The MoD said: "The combination of widespread missile and artillery strikes and efforts to concentrate forces for an offensive represents a reversion to traditional Russian military doctrine.

"However, this will require significant force levels. Ukraine’s continued defence of Mariupol is currently tying down significant numbers of Russian troops and equipment."

Meanwhile, Ukraine's army said on Thursday there is still "a constant threat" of Russia using missile weapons across Ukraine.

Armed Forces spokesperson Oleksandr Shputun said in a daily briefing that Russia continues carrying out "systematic strikes against military and civilian infrastructure" in Kharkiv, in the north-east, Zaporizhzhia, in the south-east, and the eastern region of Donetsk.

"The enemy continues to build up an aviation group near the eastern border of our state, reinforces artillery units and optimises the existing control, intelligence and medical support systems. There is a constant threat of the use of missile weapons by the enemy throughout the territory of Ukraine," he said.

Mr Shputun also said Russia is trying to conduct forced mobilisation in the "temporarily occupied territories" of the eastern Donetsk and Luhansk regions.

"In the city of Gorlovka, daily rounds in houses and multi-storey apartment buildings are carried out," he added.

Mariupol mayor says 20,000 civilians dead as second mass grave exhumed in Bucha
He said that heavy fighting continues in the battered Donetsk Oblast city of Mariupol, where its mayor said more than 20,000 civilians have been killed and at least one war crime has been confirmed by European experts.

The reported ship attack by a Neptune cruise missiles comes in the same week President Joe Biden called Russia’s actions in Ukraine “a genocide” and approved $800 million (£609 million) in new military assistance to Kyiv, saying weapons from the West have sustained Ukraine’s fight so far and “we cannot rest now.”

The munitions include artillery systems, armoured personnel carriers and helicopters.

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy said he’s “sincerely thankful” to the US for the new round of military assistance, and that he and President Biden had discussed on the phone even tougher sanctions against Moscow, as well as efforts to bring to justice Russian soldiers who committed war crimes in Ukraine.

In his daily late-night address to the nation, Mr Zelenskyy also said he was thankful for Wednesday’s visit by the presidents of Poland, Estonia, Lithuania and Latvia.

He said those leaders “have helped us from the first day, those who did not hesitate to give us weapons, those who did not doubt whether to impose sanctions.”

Mr Zelenskyy also said work was continuing to clear tens of thousands of unexploded shells, mines and tripwires that were left behind in northern Ukraine by the retreating Russians.

In the latest in a string of senior European politicians to make the trip to show support for Ukraine, Ireland’s foreign minister travelled to Kyiv on Thursday and planned to discuss how Ireland can “assist Ukraine in its application for EU candidate status.”

So this is a case of either a Ukrainian success, a Russian fuckup, or a combination of both!