Was Madeleine Killed By Her Parents?

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2007-09-07 01:00pm

Given the events of the last 24 hours with Kate McCann, mother of the supposedly abducted Madeleine who's been missing over 120 days in Praia da Luz, Portugal, being named as a suspect, does anyone now really believe the parents are behind this?

I remember voicing this issue when the whole affair started and having various people baulk at the very idea (as some were doing on the Radio 2 talk show I listened to this lunchtime). The parents are often the first suspects in these cases, just to eliminate them first and focus on anything outside that circle fully later on. For some reason, Portugal has some really bizarre ways of doing police work, so it's not been viable to voice their concerns on the McCanns being suspects until now, where forensic evidence analysed by the FSS in Birmingham, apparently shows Madeleine's blood in a rental car they used.

I now see my initial thoughts manifesting as this tale has gone nowhere fast and simply been a massive PR stunt for a girl who, if she wasn't so cute and came from such an upstanding middle-class white family, would simply be another statistic, albeit, abroad.

Thoughts?

Dartzap · Post by **Dartzap** » 2007-09-07 01:07pm

Quite right, Vald, the entire thing has been ridiculous. How on earth is it that most of the media seems to have forgotten that those two people left their kids alone instead of putting them in the crèche provided? Even if the mother is proven innocent of murder, the pair of them are utter idiots for doing that.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2007-09-07 01:22pm

Dartzap wrote:Quite right, Vald, the entire thing has been ridiculous. How on earth is it that most of the media seems to have forgotten that those two people left their kids alone instead of putting them in the crèche provided? Even if the mother is proven innocent of murder, the pair of them are utter idiots for doing that.

She's the new Princess Di (something further hammered into the public by the Daily Excess using her as well as Di on the frontp age every damn day) and it's amazing how so many shops and people displayed posters, campaigned and so on when the whole affair reeked of negligence at the very least, if not outright criminal suspicion.

I think the public and media are in active denial now because they're finally realising that, should the McCann's be found guilty of killing their daughter, they've been taken for a ride. There was a guy arguing with a Portuguese journalist on Radio 2 with the argument from incredulity, as if the idea of the parents playing the innocent card with their ceaseless PR machine somehow invalidates the idea of them being behind it, but helping take the edge off such accusations with the "Why would we do such a thing? We loved her! What if it were your child?" shtick.

Again, I guarantee this wouldn't be the case if the kid had been black, the parents weren't doctors or anything respectable in society. I wonder what the family of Robert Murat is thinking now, especially with the hate campaign the British tabloids had against a man who wasn't even a suspect for all that long.

Dartzap · Post by **Dartzap** » 2007-09-07 01:29pm

The media is paying more attention to black kids who get killed these days, so there is some hope.....

As for Robert Murat, he should damn well demand that every paper that said he was guilty should publish an apology if the parents are found guilty.

Of course, whilst this is happening, something more important wont be reported...brilliant. One can only hope C4N will have something interesting, later on.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2007-09-07 01:50pm

I've just seen the report on ITV's news and the parents of Kate say she's convinced someone inside the police has cooked this. I wonder what is more testing of Occam's Razor: parents accidentally killing their child with an overdose and covering it up, or the child being abducted and a bent cop framing the parents for whatever reason they believe.

The crowds around the station are mixed in feeling and I expect if the McCanns don't take this deal being offered of them admitting their guilt for a more lenient sentence, they'll probably end up with something worse. It's looking like whatever path they choose, I'm still proven right.

Zac Naloen · Post by **Zac Naloen** » 2007-09-07 01:56pm

The fact the Mcanns have been behaving like the classic guilty party in this case is what set the alarms bells ringing for me within a week.

"Try to distract attention from myself by trying to be as helpful as possible".

Flagg · Post by **Flagg** » 2007-09-07 02:10pm

Zac Naloen wrote:The fact the Mcanns have been behaving like the classic guilty party in this case is what set the alarms bells ringing for me within a week.

"Try to distract attention from myself by trying to be as helpful as possible".

Well yeah, I mean it's not like the parents of an abducted child that had nothing to do with it would be trying to be as helpful as they possibly could or anything.

Zac Naloen · Post by **Zac Naloen** » 2007-09-07 02:13pm

Flagg wrote:
Zac Naloen wrote:The fact the Mcanns have been behaving like the classic guilty party in this case is what set the alarms bells ringing for me within a week.

"Try to distract attention from myself by trying to be as helpful as possible".
Well yeah, I mean it's not like the parents of an abducted child that had nothing to do with it would be trying to be as helpful as they possibly could or anything.

You'd have a point if their efforts weren't way way way over the top to the point of being farcical.

Dartzap · Post by **Dartzap** » 2007-09-07 02:14pm

Indeed. Going off to meet the Pope is not something that most parents of missing children do, as a matter of course.

Flagg · Post by **Flagg** » 2007-09-07 02:36pm

Dartzap wrote:Indeed. Going off to meet the Pope is not something that most parents of missing children do, as a matter of course.

But would they if they had the opportunity? I'd imagine anything to get the story out there as a means of getting your kid back would be something the parents of a missing child would jump at.

Post by **Colonel Olrik** » 2007-09-07 04:18pm

As much as it pains me to see the police of my country involved in this sad show, I refuse to believe they're just inventing stuff. We don't have a problem with innocent people being sent to jail - if anything it's the contrary, the justice system is too lenient (unless you're caught robbing a store or something) and have all the protections you'd expect in Western Europe.

The police not being allowed to talk about the ongoing investigation is a Portuguese constitutional thing, supposedly to protect the rights of the suspects (the right of being anonymous and not slandered). Obviously, the theory fails when foreign reporters who are not as respectful as their Portuguese colleagues start snooping and yelling all over the place. They really ought to change the laws, I think they might after this.

As far as the parents go, guilty or not they're dicks. I feel little sorry for them. If they're innocent, then they won an inverse lottery and learnt the hard way that even in one of the most peaceful places on Earth, you don't fucking leave your children alone at night without a damned good reason, certainly not to go and have drinks. If she was kidnapped, they were 5 minutes away from the harbour and a small fast boat would be enough to get her in half an hour to northern Africa or Spain.

chitoryu12 · Post by **chitoryu12** » 2007-09-07 06:30pm

They just had an article on this in AOL News.

PORTIMAO, Portugal (Sept. 7) - In a shocking twist, the mother of a 4-year-old British girl missing since May was named a suspect and called in for questioning Friday by police along with the child's father, after traces of blood were found in their rental car.

The girl's aunt said police suggested Madeleine McCann might have been killed accidentally and offered the mother a plea deal if she confessed.

Kate McCann was questioned for more than four hours in a second straight day of interrogation into the disappearance of Madeleine in southern Portugal.

Her husband, Gerry McCann, followed her into the police station in the southern Portuguese town of Portimao for a separate round of questioning. Friends and relatives said the mother told them she had been named a formal suspect and was offered a deal if she confessed, and that Gerry McCann was told he would likely also be named a suspect.

"They tried to get her to confess to having accidentally killed Madeleine by offering her a deal through her lawyer - 'If you say you killed Madeleine by accident and then hid her and disposed of the body, then we can guarantee you a two-year jail sentence or even less,"' Gerry McCann's sister, Philomena, told ITV news.

A police spokesman, Olegario Sousa, confirmed to The Associated Press that police had named a new suspect, but would not say it was Mrs. McCann. He cited privacy laws in declining to comment further.

The couple strenuously professed their innocence Friday.

Dartzap · Post by **Dartzap** » 2007-09-08 04:35am

Colonel Olrik wrote:snip.

I was somewhat surprised that the Portuguese police didn't have sniffer dogs around the place

Such is life in a place with not much crime, I suppose.

Dartzap · Post by **Dartzap** » 2007-09-08 04:38am

Beeb

Madeleine parents 'will fight on'
Madeleine McCann's parents plan to stay in Portugal to prove their innocence after being named official suspects in the case, a friend has told the BBC.

Jon Corner said Gerry and Kate McCann, both 39, were determined the search for their daughter would not be "derailed".

The four-year-old disappeared from the McCann holiday apartment in Praia da Luz in Portugal's Algarve on 3 May.

Earlier, a family spokesman said police believed Mrs McCann, of Rothley, Leics, had killed Madeleine accidentally.

'Intimidatory' questioning

No bail conditions or charges have been imposed on the couple.

Mr McCann was officially made "arguido" status about 12 hours after his wife. They had been questioned separately for more than 24 hours.

The move allows the authorities to put certain questions to Mr and Mrs McCann, and also gives them the right to remain silent.

Mr Corner said: "I spoke to Gerry in the early hours this morning and he wasn't surprised that he was named as an official suspect.

"The process of questioning I think is designed to be intimidatory, but Gerry is frustrated by the line of questioning and where the inquiry is going.

"But he's also fighting and I think he's determined that the search for Madeleine is not going to be derailed by this."

Both the mother and father as suspects now.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2007-09-08 09:01am

I expected this much. It's still passing by the grandparents and close friends that they could accidentally kill their daughter and then panic and cover it up. I admit, it's a little hard to swallow if you know them and they have a great fondness for their children, but it's not beyond anyone to pull a stupid stunt and get in so deep they can't do anything other than keep up the charade.

Hillary · Post by **Hillary** » 2007-09-10 09:24am

Admiral Valdemar wrote: Again, I guarantee this wouldn't be the case if the kid had been black, the parents weren't doctors or anything respectable in society. I wonder what the family of Robert Murat is thinking now, especially with the hate campaign the British tabloids had against a man who wasn't even a suspect for all that long.

Can you imagine if it was single mother, unemployed Tracy from Brixton, who had left her 4-year old mixed-race son and 2-year old twins (from a different father) in a Lanzarote villa whilst she went to the bar with her mates?

Instead of "Find Madeline" style headlines, the tabs would have expended all their efforts in demanding that social services remove the twins.

It's pretty plausable that they gave Madeline an accidental overdose of a drug that shoud not have been given to her anyway. Of course they would panic if this happened. Not only would they be on the hook for the death, but, as doctors, their careers would probably be over as well.

Post by **Colonel Olrik** » 2007-09-10 10:21am

I love how they flew back to the UK a couple of days after saying that they'd stay in Portugal.

And complaining about intimidatory questioning? Were they mistreated? Deprived from a lawyer? Fuck no, they were asked tough questions, like about the apparent indication that the girl was in the trunk of the car they rented 20 days after her disappearance.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2007-09-10 12:37pm

While I'm firmly of the opinion the parents are guilty of negligence, if not manslaughter, I have heard various criticisms of the way the Portuguese police have dealt with the matter. The crime scene wasn't properly examined quick enough, nor sealed off immediately; there were no trained K-9 units available to help in searching for the girl and the delay between acknowledging it was a missing person case and organising a proper search and clampdown on people leaving the resort was poorly timed. Also, questioning Kate for several hours, then letting her go home only to come back for more questioning with her husband right after her? Sorry, that doesn't make any damn sense.

A lot of that is simply down to the resort, nay, the country not being used to this sort of attention or crime, though this shouldn't exonerate the police of any lax detective work. I just hope they have a concrete case for the prosecution, because if they fail to get the result they want for this case, the shit storm of bad PR afterwards will not be pretty.

Lord Pounder · Post by **Lord Pounder** » 2007-09-10 02:06pm

I've said all along there was something fishy about the behaviour of the McCanns. I'm not going to say outright that they are guilty, but their whole demenor and actions remind me very much like those of Ian Huntly and Maxine Carr.

Pezzoni · Post by **Pezzoni** » 2007-09-10 06:12pm

'Police Match Madeleine DNA To Hire Car'

Updated: 20:26, Monday September 10, 2007
Portuguese police say they have found firm DNA evidence that the body of Madeleine McCann was in the boot of the family's hire car five weeks after she went missing, sources have told Sky News.

Source

And they flee the country shortly after being named suspects. Weird stuff.

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2007-09-10 06:22pm

That seems rather stupid, if anybody hasn't found it in 5 weeks then it would seem prudent to just leave it where it was.

Assuming there was something in the body incriminating (presumably the alleged fatal dose of sedatives) just leave the body alone and even if it is discovered the crime still can't be pinned on you rather than a kidnapper.

If they did do it then they have only their own stupidity to blame for getting caught.

Still, it is worth pointing out they didn't flee Portugal but were apparently leaving anyway (and leaving for another EU country can't really be considered fleeing).

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2007-09-10 06:23pm

Either way, I expect soon they'll be making another trip back to Portugal.

Big Orange · Post by **Big Orange** » 2007-09-10 06:41pm

Police from a backwater country being out their depth with a high profile case and acting somewhat incompetently is not deeply surprising. The Portuguese also have a very annoying habit of holding up shopping queues for an unnecessarily long time in order to go through their receipt.

And you are statistically more likely to be killed by somebody you know anyway, including family members (but it is akin to having a higher chance of dying in a road accident close to home and the people you know are not always friends). And the parasitic tabloid media are complete fucking cunts in the way they viciously tarred and feathered that harmless oddball, Robert Murat, merely because he was asked a few questions by the bumbling local coppers...

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2007-09-10 07:49pm

Big Orange wrote:Police from a backwater country being out their depth with a high profile case and acting somewhat incompetently is not deeply surprising. The Portuguese also have a very annoying habit of holding up shopping queues for an unnecessarily long time in order to go through their receipt.

So wait, you are comparing shopping times to a murder case?

Even before we get to analogies, are you going to demonstrate the Portuguese are as you say, some backwater natives, or are you just spewing shit from some outburst of national pride?

Post by **Colonel Olrik** » 2007-09-11 03:40am

Big Orange wrote:Police from a backwater country being out their depth with a high profile case and acting somewhat incompetently is not deeply surprising.

If you being a moron wasn't a fact known by everyone of relevance here, I'd might even feel somewhat offended.

The Portuguese also have a very annoying habit of holding up shopping queues for an unnecessarily long time in order to go through their receipt.

What the fuck? Portuguese shopping queues are no different from those, let's say, of the Germans. I know because in the first country I lived my first 24 years, and in the second since then. I've also been several times in your country and can't say I'm impressed by your shopping queues either. Where is this coming from? Did you use to get beaten up by a Portuguese at school, or something? Or maybe those last defeats in the Euro and World Cups are still too large a load for you to swallow?