A tale of Two 9/11s

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Lonestar
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A tale of Two 9/11s

Post by Lonestar »

From Early Bird

U.S. News & World Report
September 17, 2007

Six Years Later, A Tale Of Two 9/11s

While New York litigates, the Pentagon has moved on

By Rick Newman

It's easy to forget that 9/11 happened in more than one place. Yes, there was crushing devastation in Manhattan. But there was also a plane crash in Shanksville, Pa., that claimed 40 victims, and a spectacular attack at the Pentagon killed 184, burned for three days, and almost shut down the nation's military headquarters.

The destruction in New York, where nearly 3,000 died in the fiery collapse of the World Trade Center, eclipsed the carnage elsewhere. But beyond scale, the reason New York has come to define 9/11 is that six years later, the event shows no sign of ending. After years of squabbling, construction has finally begun on a memorial and a new skyscraper, yet completion dates are still uncertain and far off. An enormous crater remains the dominant feature of lower Manhattan.

Last month's fire and the deaths of two firefighters in an adjacent building that was destroyed on 9/11—but has yet to be razed—renewed bitter fights over the plodding progress to rebuild, as well as political finger-pointing. Many of the victims' families, meanwhile, still seek solace in remains that have yet to be found (box).

At the Pentagon, by contrast, there was an immediate need to repair the damage and get back to work. Military necessity—backed by plentiful funds—was a big factor, and by the end of 2002 the Pentagon was completely rebuilt.

But the Pentagon was also a place where Americans reacted to tragedy the way many think they should react: Survivors mourned, communities mobilized, and the bereaved coped. A memorial was planned with virtually no controversy. There are few lawsuits, if any, relating to the Pentagon victims and no lingering disputes over remains.

This year, on the sixth anniversary of the attacks, the military community will honor itself with the publication of the Defense Department's official history of 9/11 at the Pentagon. The book showcases many of the tales that have become legendary around the building. Navy officers David Tarantino and David Thomas, for instance, plunged into a flaming hole and pulled out three people who probably would have died within minutes. To free one man from a mound of debris, Tarantino got on his back and leg-pressed the mass until it rose a few inches, allowing the man to wriggle out.

Dozens of people did heroic things that seemed natural. A group of military personnel darted into burning offices and saved about a dozen people before firefighters arrived to take over. "We're marines," one of them explained. "It may sound corny ... but that's something we've always been trained to do." An electrician named Matthew Morris waded through a pool of water in a smoky electrical vault to shut off mangled transformers, carrying 13,800 volts of electricity, so that rescuers wouldn't get electrocuted.

The book also records the sensation of near death, in the halting words of Christine Morrison, who worked for the Defense Intelligence Agency: "This force hit the room, instantly turning the office into an inferno hell. Everything was falling, flying, and on fire.... I was slam-dunked backward into another worker's cubicle.... I felt the heat, and I heard the sizzling of me.... I couldn't move any part of my body...I was bartering for just one breath of air." After 20 minutes, Morrison finally made it to safety, shoeless. Seven others in her office died.

There are countless stories from New York just as gripping, powerful, and tragic. But memories of the acts of ordinary people doing extraordinary things are now competing for attention with quarrels, litigation, and a measure of weariness. Ground zero may still be sacred ground, but the Pentagon was treated as a battlefield—where the military remove their dead, commemorate them, and prepare for the next battle. It's a narrative that has reached its conclusion—which means the story can now be told.
I knew that construction on the "replacement" WTC had yet to begin, but I was mroe than a little surprised that there were buildings considered destroyed still standing at Ground Zero. I admit that, working at this big federal building that shall remain nameless, may have skewed my view towards "obviously some shit has been done", but the way the article reads...almost nothing has been done in NYC. How is this possible? The only construction going on here is previously planned renovation, and they only way to tell that something has happened is a memorial on the grounds and a few items on some of the corridor walls.

New Yorkers, is this a big deal in your city? Have people just went "meh" and accepted a big honking hole in the ground?
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Re: A tale of Two 9/11s

Post by Dalton »

Lonestar wrote:New Yorkers, is this a big deal in your city? Have people just went "meh" and accepted a big honking hole in the ground?
Some people could give a shit, but a lot of us are tired of the arguing. The main reason why things were stalled was because of this litigation: the guy who owned the lot that the towers stood on wanted double the insurance payout, arguing that the 9/11 attacks were two separate incidents. There's also a lot of people who are concerned that there are still remains left to be found in and around the area, and also concerned about plans for the memorial.
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Re: A tale of Two 9/11s

Post by Vympel »

Dalton wrote: Some people could give a shit, but a lot of us are tired of the arguing. The main reason why things were stalled was because of this litigation: the guy who owned the lot that the towers stood on wanted double the insurance payout, arguing that the 9/11 attacks were two separate incidents.
And though he didn't get double the insurance payout, he sure got more than he would've been entitled to had all the policies (as no single insurer could cover that much risk) been of consistent wording with regards to what the definition of an "occurrence" was.

I don't begrudge him that, it was smart to make that case. If that's what the policy says, you're entitled to it.
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Re: A tale of Two 9/11s

Post by Dalton »

Vympel wrote:And though he didn't get double the insurance payout, he sure got more than he would've been entitled to had all the policies (as no single insurer could cover that much risk) been of consistent wording with regards to what the definition of an "occurrence" was.

I don't begrudge him that, it was smart to make that case. If that's what the policy says, you're entitled to it.
Well, things are finally moving along, at least. We'll see where it goes, but I'd love to see it finished before the 10th anniversary.
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Post by Coyote »

It's not really a fair comparison-- the Pentagon land was all owned by one entity, the US government, and specifically run by the military, which has set procedures and standards on dealing with disasters and are prepared for mass casualties, and serviceman's group life insurance accounts. No one expects all that to have to kick in at the Pentagon, since it is not what they expected as a battle site, but once over the initial shock the set procedures kick in.

OTOH, the WTC attack was never seriously envisioned. Insurers figured that the worst that could happen would be some clown smokes in the bathroom and the cigarette later smoulders in the bin and ignites, and the sprinklers kick in and then the carpet & electronics have to be replaced. Oh, dear.

Insurers talk about 'catastrophic events', 'acts of god/war' and so on but rarely ever really think they'll have to face a payout for somethinglike that. And I doubt they'd expect something like the aforementioned restroom fire affecting the entire building-- so a policy holder on floor 58 can be isured at no risk even though the policy holder on floor 79 burned his restroom.
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In Communism, there is no Government, so the Workers are free to exploit the Bosses.
So in Libertarianism, man exploits man, but in Communism, its the other way around!

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Post by Coyote »

Caveat-- yes, I remember the truck bomb attempt at the WTC in the 90's, but it seems to me that after the truck bomb attack occured, the building was rebult, reinforced, new procedures against another truck bomb were put in place, and then everyone breathed a collective sigh of relief at the bullet they dodged and went back to business as usual-- ie, giant kamikaze attacks make great Tom Clancy fiction, but have no bearing in reality.
Something about Libertarianism always bothered me. Then one day, I realized what it was:
Libertarian philosophy can be boiled down to the phrase, "Work Will Make You Free."


In Libertarianism, there is no Government, so the Bosses are free to exploit the Workers.
In Communism, there is no Government, so the Workers are free to exploit the Bosses.
So in Libertarianism, man exploits man, but in Communism, its the other way around!

If all you want to do is have some harmless, mindless fun, go H3RE INST3ADZ0RZ!!
Grrr! Fight my Brute, you pansy!
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Post by Lord Poe »

Does anybody really think there's more corpses to find? Why are people still squabbling over a possible piece of ear cartilage that might be found? Move the fuck on; its over. No need to make a lifelong career out of being a 9-11 "victim".
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Post by Coyote »

Lord Poe wrote:Does anybody really think there's more corpses to find? Why are people still squabbling over a possible piece of ear cartilage that might be found? Move the fuck on; its over. No need to make a lifelong career out of being a 9-11 "victim".
But remember, in America, being a victim automatically makes you right. And a hero. ( :roll: )
Something about Libertarianism always bothered me. Then one day, I realized what it was:
Libertarian philosophy can be boiled down to the phrase, "Work Will Make You Free."


In Libertarianism, there is no Government, so the Bosses are free to exploit the Workers.
In Communism, there is no Government, so the Workers are free to exploit the Bosses.
So in Libertarianism, man exploits man, but in Communism, its the other way around!

If all you want to do is have some harmless, mindless fun, go H3RE INST3ADZ0RZ!!
Grrr! Fight my Brute, you pansy!
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