The 'black powder loophole' in gun laws...

N&P: Discuss governments, nations, politics and recent related news here.

Moderators: Alyrium Denryle, Edi, K. A. Pital

User avatar
Glocksman
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 7233
Joined: 2002-09-03 06:43pm
Location: Mr. Five by Five

The 'black powder loophole' in gun laws...

Post by Glocksman »

...at least according the intrepid 'Investigators' at ABC 7
New York - WABC, October 23, 2007) - Last week, The Investigators went undercover to expose a gaping loophole in New York state's gun laws. Now Governor Eliot Spitzer is promising to examine the problem more closely.

The Investigators Jim Hoffer has the story.

The black powder rifle's exemption from gun laws is one of the last remaining major gun loopholes in the state of New York. But the days of buying this deadly weapon no questions asked may be numbered.

Our undercover investigation showed with alarming clarity just how easy it is to get a black powder rifle in New York.

Be it in a department store or on the Internet, the highly powerful .50 caliber weapon can be purchased without any identification, permit or background check.

That's because the black powder gun is muzzle loaded and therefore classified as antique -- and state and federal gun laws do not include antique firearms.

We took the issue to the governor, the one most able to do something about it.

Jim Hoffer: "What if anything can you do as governor to try to close this black powder gun loophole?"
Governor Spitzer: "We have a number of loophole closing gun-related bills that have been proposed. None of which has moved yet through the legislature, but I will look to see if they cover this particular situation."
Hoffer: "And if they don't will you move on that do you think?"
Spitzer: "Sure, it's obviously something that bears examination."

Twice in the last four months, the deadly black-powder gun made news. First, a student with a history of psychological problems carried one loaded onto the St. John's University campus. And in June, a convicted rapist with the same kind of gun shot and nearly killed a state police trooper.

"These guns can kill and they should be subject to the same restrictions that other guns are subject to," said Michael Gianaris (D-Queens).

The Queens state lawmaker says after seeing our investigation he'll be introducing legislation to close the loophole that exempts these so-called antique weapons from gun laws.

"Clearly this gun has already done harm to a state trooper, it almost caused a tragedy at St. John's and we have to act quickly to keep them out of the hands of people who shouldn't be holding guns," Gianaris said.

Assemblyman Gianaris plans to introduce the gun bill in the general assembly next week.

I'm sure this'll address the surge in Amish drive by's:
"Clippety clop, clippety clop, clippety clop. PA-THWUMP, clippety clop, clippety clop." :lol:

More seriously though, what kind of fucking moron would use a muzzleloader for crime?

'BOOM'. Now excuse me Mr. Officer while I take a minute or two to reload my piece. :twisted:

Honestly, if the two cited cases were part of a real problem instead of the outliers that they are, the Bradys and their ilk would be clamoring for black powder bans.

To me this story illustrates the worst of local TV news; sensationalized stories long on emotion, 'undercover' video footage, and short on correct fact.
"You say that it is your custom to burn widows. Very well. We also have a custom: when men burn a woman alive, we tie a rope around their necks and we hang them. Build your funeral pyre; beside it, my carpenters will build a gallows. You may follow your custom. And then we will follow ours."- General Sir Charles Napier

Oderint dum metuant
User avatar
Admiral Valdemar
Outside Context Problem
Posts: 31572
Joined: 2002-07-04 07:17pm
Location: UK

Post by Admiral Valdemar »

A ballista is far more powerful and, also, fully legal.

Pretty soon, these kids will hear of this and we'll have hold-ups at the local 7-11 with such dangerous "siege engines", as they are known. You heard it here first.
User avatar
Dartzap
Sith Acolyte
Posts: 5969
Joined: 2002-09-05 09:56am
Location: Britain, Britain, Britain: Land Of Rain
Contact:

Post by Dartzap »

Hmm. Well, I know a few people willing to sell you a musket. Good condition, only two hundred years old :P

What? Three shots a minute sounds all right to me!
EBC: Northeners, Huh! What are they good for?! Absolutely nothing! :P

Cybertron, Justice league...MM, HAB SDN City Watch: Sergeant Detritus

Days Unstabbed, Unabused, Unassualted and Unwavedatwithabutchersknife: 0
User avatar
Chardok
GET THE FUCK OFF MY OBSTACLE!
Posts: 8488
Joined: 2003-08-12 09:49am
Location: San Antonio

Post by Chardok »

Truck mounted scorpions for drive-bys are next, mark my words.
Image
User avatar
The Spartan
Sith Marauder
Posts: 4406
Joined: 2005-03-12 05:56pm
Location: Houston

Post by The Spartan »

Dartzap wrote:Hmm. Well, I know a few people willing to sell you a musket. Good condition, only two hundred years old :P

What? Three shots a minute sounds all right to me!
When I can get a brand new musket? Pass. :P

Oh, and Glocksman, to answer your question: a moron who can't buy a modern weapon. Like, say, someone who's a convicted felon.
The Gentleman from Texas abstains. Discourteously.
Image
PRFYNAFBTFC-Vice Admiral: MFS Masturbating Walrus :: Omine subtilite Odobenus rosmarus masturbari
Soy un perdedor.
"WHO POOPED IN A NORMAL ROOM?!"-Commander William T. Riker
User avatar
Ryan Thunder
Village Idiot
Posts: 4139
Joined: 2007-09-16 07:53pm
Location: Canada

Post by Ryan Thunder »

What about trebuchets? They seem to be forgetting those.

And of course, thrown stones... :D
SDN Worlds 5: Sanctum
User avatar
Sea Skimmer
Yankee Capitalist Air Pirate
Posts: 37390
Joined: 2002-07-03 11:49pm
Location: Passchendaele City, HAB

Post by Sea Skimmer »

.50cal? If these people have more then two braincells they might have noticed that you can in fact buy a FIFTEEN INCH civil war seacoast gun if you want!
"This cult of special forces is as sensible as to form a Royal Corps of Tree Climbers and say that no soldier who does not wear its green hat with a bunch of oak leaves stuck in it should be expected to climb a tree"
— Field Marshal William Slim 1956
User avatar
Ryan Thunder
Village Idiot
Posts: 4139
Joined: 2007-09-16 07:53pm
Location: Canada

Post by Ryan Thunder »

Sea Skimmer wrote:.50cal? If these people have more then two braincells they might have noticed that you can in fact buy a FIFTEEN INCH civil war seacoast gun if you want!
Oh... I must have one of those for my front lawn. Any idea how much they go for?
SDN Worlds 5: Sanctum
User avatar
Pulp Hero
Jedi Master
Posts: 1085
Joined: 2006-04-21 11:13pm
Location: Planet P. Its a bug planet.

Post by Pulp Hero »

All I can picture is a ski mask wearing thug bursting into a liquor store, whipping out a flintlock pistol and screaming,

"Good purveyor of inebriants, I now demand that you transfer your gains to me, for this is indeed a most hearty pilfering."



Am I a bad person?
I can never love you because I'm just thirty squirrels in a mansuit."

"Ah, good ol' Popeye. Punching ghosts until they explode."[/b]-Internet Webguy

"It was cut because an Army Ordnance panel determined that a weapon that kills an enemy soldier 10 times before he hits the ground was a waste of resources, so they scaled it back to only kill him 3 times."-Anon, on the cancellation of the Army's multi-kill vehicle.
[R_H]
Sith Devotee
Posts: 2894
Joined: 2007-08-24 08:51am
Location: Europe

Post by [R_H] »

Pulp Hero wrote:All I can picture is a ski mask wearing thug bursting into a liquor store, whipping out a flintlock pistol and screaming,

"Good purveyor of inebriants, I now demand that you transfer your gains to me, for this is indeed a most hearty pilfering."



Am I a bad person?
:lol: <- I found it amusing. Maybe there will be an "Assault Musket Ban".
Kanastrous
Sith Acolyte
Posts: 6464
Joined: 2007-09-14 11:46pm
Location: SoCal

Post by Kanastrous »

Pulp Hero wrote:


Am I a bad person?
Hell no!
I find myself endlessly fascinated by your career - Stark, in a fit of Nerd-Validation, November 3, 2011
User avatar
Fingolfin_Noldor
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 11834
Joined: 2006-05-15 10:36am
Location: At the Helm of the HAB Star Dreadnaught Star Fist

Post by Fingolfin_Noldor »

Ryan Thunder wrote:
Sea Skimmer wrote:.50cal? If these people have more then two braincells they might have noticed that you can in fact buy a FIFTEEN INCH civil war seacoast gun if you want!
Oh... I must have one of those for my front lawn. Any idea how much they go for?
:wtf: They don't even have the machinery to produce guns that big any more, short of stealing them.
Image
STGOD: Byzantine Empire
Your spirit, diseased as it is, refuses to allow you to give up, no matter what threats you face... and whatever wreckage you leave behind you.
Kreia
User avatar
NeoGoomba
Sith Devotee
Posts: 3269
Joined: 2002-12-22 11:35am
Location: Upstate New York

Post by NeoGoomba »

"So let me get this straight...you want to backstab the guy...with a fucking siege weapon? Let me check the rules..."
"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals and you know it. Fifteen hundred years ago everybody knew the Earth was the center of the universe. Five hundred years ago, everybody knew the Earth was flat, and fifteen minutes ago, you knew that humans were alone on this planet. Imagine what you'll know...tomorrow."
-Agent Kay
User avatar
The Yosemite Bear
Mostly Harmless Nutcase (Requiescat in Pace)
Posts: 35211
Joined: 2002-07-21 02:38am
Location: Dave's Not Here Man

Post by The Yosemite Bear »

question, does new york have any regulation for Spring/tension, pnumonic, rapid catalysation, electromagnetic, or hydrolyic launch systems for small projectiles?

or are their laws just for cordite and saltpeter?
Image

The scariest folk song lyrics are "My Boy Grew up to be just like me" from cats in the cradle by Harry Chapin
User avatar
Sea Skimmer
Yankee Capitalist Air Pirate
Posts: 37390
Joined: 2002-07-03 11:49pm
Location: Passchendaele City, HAB

Post by Sea Skimmer »

Ryan Thunder wrote: Oh... I must have one of those for my front lawn. Any idea how much they go for?
Well realistically 15inchers are very rare, I don’t think you’d ever find someone who had one and was willing to sell, but smaller pieces of coast artillery do sell from time to time, for some thousands of dollars. Civil war smoothbore artillery is almost always manufactured via casting, so making a new one would be easy…. If you have the ability to do several thousand pound castings. In the case of smaller pieces of artillery, you really can do it yourself like this crazy ass deer hunter did, http://www.buckstix.com/howitzer.htm

Course, some people in the US actually have WW2 era artillery pieces in working condition with ammo; and I still can’t figure out how some of that is legal, like the privately owned 90mm anti tank gun.
"This cult of special forces is as sensible as to form a Royal Corps of Tree Climbers and say that no soldier who does not wear its green hat with a bunch of oak leaves stuck in it should be expected to climb a tree"
— Field Marshal William Slim 1956
User avatar
The Yosemite Bear
Mostly Harmless Nutcase (Requiescat in Pace)
Posts: 35211
Joined: 2002-07-21 02:38am
Location: Dave's Not Here Man

Post by The Yosemite Bear »

it's great for duck hunting, just load it with canister....
Image

The scariest folk song lyrics are "My Boy Grew up to be just like me" from cats in the cradle by Harry Chapin
User avatar
Ryan Thunder
Village Idiot
Posts: 4139
Joined: 2007-09-16 07:53pm
Location: Canada

Post by Ryan Thunder »

I thought of ghetto-editing my post with a :lol:, but decided against spamming.

Upon reconsideration, maybe I should have, after all... :shock:
SDN Worlds 5: Sanctum
User avatar
Fingolfin_Noldor
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 11834
Joined: 2006-05-15 10:36am
Location: At the Helm of the HAB Star Dreadnaught Star Fist

Post by Fingolfin_Noldor »

The Yosemite Bear wrote:it's great for duck hunting, just load it with canister....
You can hunt just about any animal. :lol:

Just fabricate an Armour Piercing shot if really needed. :wink:
Image
STGOD: Byzantine Empire
Your spirit, diseased as it is, refuses to allow you to give up, no matter what threats you face... and whatever wreckage you leave behind you.
Kreia
User avatar
The Duchess of Zeon
Gözde
Posts: 14566
Joined: 2002-09-18 01:06am
Location: Exiled in the Pale of Settlement.

Post by The Duchess of Zeon »

Sea Skimmer wrote:
Course, some people in the US actually have WW2 era artillery pieces in working condition with ammo; and I still can’t figure out how some of that is legal, like the privately owned 90mm anti tank gun.
I think they were grandfathered in, and there's also an exemption for pieces used to trigger artificial avalanches. In both cases I am pretty bloody sure that only solid shot can be used, or blanks.
The threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth. -- Wikipedia's No Original Research policy page.

In 1966 the Soviets find something on the dark side of the Moon. In 2104 they come back. -- Red Banner / White Star, a nBSG continuation story. Updated to Chapter 4.0 -- 14 January 2013.
User avatar
CaptainChewbacca
Browncoat Wookiee
Posts: 15746
Joined: 2003-05-06 02:36am
Location: Deep beneath Boatmurdered.

Post by CaptainChewbacca »

The Yosemite Bear wrote:question, does new york have any regulation for Spring/tension, pnumonic, rapid catalysation, electromagnetic, or hydrolyic launch systems for small projectiles?

or are their laws just for cordite and saltpeter?
I don't know about New York, but in California anyone over the age of 16 can buy a hunting crossbow with a repeating loader.
Stuart: The only problem is, I'm losing track of which universe I'm in.
You kinda look like Jesus. With a lightsaber.- Peregrin Toker
ImageImage
User avatar
Sea Skimmer
Yankee Capitalist Air Pirate
Posts: 37390
Joined: 2002-07-03 11:49pm
Location: Passchendaele City, HAB

Post by Sea Skimmer »

The Duchess of Zeon wrote: I think they were grandfathered in, and there's also an exemption for pieces used to trigger artificial avalanches. In both cases I am pretty bloody sure that only solid shot can be used, or blanks.
No, the 90mm piece I'm talking about was a prototype built in WW2, well after the National Firearms Act. See the bottom of this page for some video of it firing. I know a number of people have working 60mm and 81mm mortars, but they may have been produced before 1933.
http://www.armamentsales.com/videos.htm


The avalanche control guns most certainly do fire exploding shells; solid shot would not be effective. The weapons used are 75 and 106mm recoilless rifles, usually from very firmly bolted down positions at ski slopes, and 105mm howitzers which are fully mobile and moved as needed to take care of roads. They are operated by civilians, but they aren’t really privately owned, the weapons are army property only being lent out.
"This cult of special forces is as sensible as to form a Royal Corps of Tree Climbers and say that no soldier who does not wear its green hat with a bunch of oak leaves stuck in it should be expected to climb a tree"
— Field Marshal William Slim 1956
User avatar
Civil War Man
NERRRRRDS!!!
Posts: 3790
Joined: 2005-01-28 03:54am

Post by Civil War Man »

.50? Pshaw. I own two .58 caliber rifles. And I didn't even have to register them.

FEAR ME! :D
User avatar
Stuart
Sith Devotee
Posts: 2935
Joined: 2004-10-26 09:23am
Location: The military-industrial complex

Post by Stuart »

Chardok wrote:Truck mounted scorpions for drive-bys are next, mark my words.
Can you imagine a muzzle-loader drive-by?

In a pick-up truck driving by
Front rank FIRE!
Middle rank FIRE!
Rear rank FIRE!

And can you imagine what muzzle-loading rap would sound like?
Nations do not survive by setting examples for others
Nations survive by making examples of others
User avatar
Sidewinder
Sith Acolyte
Posts: 5466
Joined: 2005-05-18 10:23pm
Location: Feasting on those who fell in battle
Contact:

Post by Sidewinder »

Chardok wrote:Truck mounted scorpions for drive-bys are next, mark my words.
Are you talking about the arachnid, or the submachine gun?
Please do not make Americans fight giant monsters.

Those gun nuts do not understand the meaning of "overkill," and will simply use weapon after weapon of mass destruction (WMD) until the monster is dead, or until they run out of weapons.

They have more WMD than there are monsters for us to fight. (More insanity here.)
User avatar
Chardok
GET THE FUCK OFF MY OBSTACLE!
Posts: 8488
Joined: 2003-08-12 09:49am
Location: San Antonio

Post by Chardok »

Stuart wrote:
Chardok wrote:Truck mounted scorpions for drive-bys are next, mark my words.
Can you imagine a muzzle-loader drive-by?

In a pick-up truck driving by
Front rank FIRE!
Middle rank FIRE!
Rear rank FIRE!

And can you imagine what muzzle-loading rap would sound like?
From
YO YO YO BOOM CLICK BOOM CLICK SHA-LOCK LOCK BOOM!

To

YO YO YO BOOM CLICK SCHINNKT FRRP Shhhhhhhh scccccwonk TINK TINK TINK TINK click click BOOM!
Image
Post Reply