Jerusalem Arabs rush to get Israeli citizenship

[Ace Pace]

Haaretz

The number of East Jerusalem residents seeking Israeli citizenship has risen sharply in recent months, an Israeli official said Wednesday, as talk of a possible re-division of the city gains momentum.

The Interior Ministry has received hundreds of applications for citizenship from Arab residents of east Jerusalem over the past few months, instead of the average of several dozen, said ministry spokeswoman Sabine Hadad.

Hadad was unable to provide specific figures but said there has been an increase of hundreds.The trend appears to stem from Palestinian fears that they could lose Israeli social benefits, such as health care or welfare payments, if their neighborhoods are shifted to Palestinian control in the future.

When Israel captured east Jerusalem from Jordan in 1967, the city's Arabs were given the opportunity to become citizens, yet they rejected it because they refused to acknowledge Israeli control over the city.

Instead, they were given the status of permanent residents, holding Israeli ID cards and making them eligible for many benefits enjoyed by Israelis. In contrast to West Bank Palestinians, permanent residents also enjoy freedom of movement in Israel.

The rise in citizenship applications comes as Israeli and Palestinian officials prepare for a U.S.-sponsored peace conference at the end of this month in Annapolis, Maryland.

The sides have begun discussing core issues that have scuttled the peace process for years, including the future of east Jerusalem, which the Palestinians seek as the capital of a future state.

Israeli leaders have indicated a willingness to cede some peripheral Arab neighborhoods to the Palestinians in a peace deal. This has raised the possibility that Arab residents could lose their residency status.

There are no precise statistics available on how many east Jerusalem residents request Israeli citizenship, said Amos Gil, director of Ir Amim, a group working for Jewish-Arab coexistence in Jerusalem.

But many have been increasingly cut off from the West Bank by Israel's separation barrier, which runs through the city, he said, and have been forced to come to terms with living under Israeli control. Many also fear being cut off from their jobs, health care and schools if the city is divided, he said.

People say, if what promises us a better life economically is being more Israeli, then I have no choice, Gil said.

Israel captured east Jerusalem from Jordan in the 1967 Mideast war and annexed it, a move never recognized by the international community. Today, around a third of Jerusalem's 750,000 residents are Palestinian

Well, when push comes to shove, a mediocre education system is better then none, free healthcare is better then none, a corrupt political system is better then one based off gunfights...you get the point.

[Sidewinder]

I guess the Arabs are hating their grandparents for rejecting the offer of Israeli citizenship way back when. Hopefully, the guys seeking citizenship now aren't going to go, "Death to the Jews!" and blow themselves up, unlike certain groups that I won't mention here.

Well, when push comes to shove, a mediocre education system is better then none, free healthcare is better then none, a corrupt political system is better then one based off gunfights...you get the point.

How bad is Israel's education system, anyways? Is it comparable to the insanity Americans are stuck with?

[Ace Pace]

I guess the Arabs are hating their grandparents for rejecting the offer of Israeli citizenship way back when. Hopefully, the guys seeking citizenship now aren't going to go, "Death to the Jews!" and blow themselves up, unlike certain groups that I won't mention here.

Well, when push comes to shove, a mediocre education system is better then none, free healthcare is better then none, a corrupt political system is better then one based off gunfights...you get the point.

How bad is Israel's education system, anyways? Is it comparable to the insanity Americans are stuck with?

The system is fine, taking the good parts out of the british GCSE system with the minimum of fucking up. The problem is the massive and continual underfunding thats endemic to anything here besides defense. Teacher salaries are so much of a joke that theres has been a large strike for the past three weeks, classes are insanely large anywhere outside the Tel-aviv region and such things.

[General Trelane (Retired)]

[quote="Ace Pace]Well, when push comes to shove, a mediocre education system is better then [sic] none, free healthcare is better then [sic] none, a corrupt political system is better then [sic] one based off gunfights...you get the point.[/quote]

Yes, but even a mediocre education system should be able to teach the difference between "then" and "than". Sorry, this is a pet peeve of mine.

As for the article, thanks for posting--I found it interesting but have no insightful comment.

[Pelranius]

Have religious fundamentalists been trying to interfere with the public school system in Israel, or do they just stick to their own knitting (meaning their system of private schools)?

[Ace Pace]

General, apologies. It's actually something I try to correct, but as a third language...

Have religious fundamentalists been trying to interfere with the public school system in Israel, or do they just stick to their own knitting (meaning their system of private schools)?

It's an odd topic. To any European eyes, what we have is a religious system. To my eyes, it's a compromise that works. School here works like this, with three main systems.
Secular/Arab Secular
Religious Moderate
A mass of typeset schools such as the Haridi, Druze, Bedouin systems.

My primarily experience is with the Secular and the Religious moderate parts, so I can expand on those.
Religion 'interferes' in quite a few areas. For one, learning about the bible is an obligational subject for all students who wish to graduate with a diploma. However, it's not brainwashing. Now days theres a push to move in Jewish Philosophy as a required subject, as a grass-roots effort on part of schools, but thats again, less brainwashing, more encouraging debate in society. History has some influences, obviously, a focus on Jews, but this seems to be a 'problem' of every history course, focusing on itself.

The moderate religious sector teaches a completely different approach to teaching the bible, again, avoiding simple brain washing. The place you are most likely to find typical brain washing is in the Haridi sector, however, most people there do not graduate with a University valid Diploma. Haridim however are another rant entirely.

[eyl]

General, apologies. It's actually something I try to correct, but as a third language...

Have religious fundamentalists been trying to interfere with the public school system in Israel, or do they just stick to their own knitting (meaning their system of private schools)?

It's an odd topic. To any European eyes, what we have is a religious system. To my eyes, it's a compromise that works. School here works like this, with three main systems.
Secular/Arab Secular
Religious Moderate
A mass of typeset schools such as the Haridi, Druze, Bedouin systems.

My primarily experience is with the Secular and the Religious moderate parts, so I can expand on those.
Religion 'interferes' in quite a few areas. For one, learning about the bible is an obligational subject for all students who wish to graduate with a diploma. However, it's not brainwashing. Now days theres a push to move in Jewish Philosophy as a required subject, as a grass-roots effort on part of schools, but thats again, less brainwashing, more encouraging debate in society. History has some influences, obviously, a focus on Jews, but this seems to be a 'problem' of every history course, focusing on itself.

The moderate religious sector teaches a completely different approach to teaching the bible, again, avoiding simple brain washing. The place you are most likely to find typical brain washing is in the Haridi sector, however, most people there do not graduate with a University valid Diploma. Haridim however are another rant entirely.

To elaborate a bit: the secular system, which as you say is divided into "Jewish" and "Arab" (or "non-Jewish", more accurately) schools, depending on the population in the schools' area (the main difference is in certain areas of the curriculum - schools in Muslim Arab areas, for example, study the Koran rather than the OT and Arabic as a primary language) and the "moderate religious" system have their basic standards and curricula set by the state. OTOH, the Haredi school system does not, even though they get state funding - their graduates are thus woefully unprepared for the work market, as they have a cursory knowledge of "Secular" subjects (e.g. math).

[Ace Pace]

There have been paper efforts to get the Haredi school system up to scratch. Then all the schools magically get waivers to keep on functioning and leeching millions per year.

I can't think of any other nation on earth that allows 25% of it's population to do nothing.

[Kanastrous]

Are people in Haredi communities still exempt from military service? Or was that only groups like Neuteri Karta?

[eyl]

Are people in Haredi communities still exempt from military service? Or was that only groups like Neuteri Karta?

It's all of them, basically.

Actually, that's not technically true. Strictly speaking, men* get a deferral from service if they're enrolled in a yeshiva at enlistment time. Since the haredi tend to marry earlier and have lots of kids, they keep getting deferrals until the army won't draft them because they're too old and have too many children (since you're exempt from the draft if you're over a certain age with more than a certain number of children).

Theoretically, those haredim who are not yeshiva students are subject to the draft. In practise, they just declare themselves to be yeshiva students, even if they're not, and the army doesn't pursue the matter for several reasons. I remember reading once about a placement officer who was unofficially reprimanded because he refused to exempt two haredi youths who were patently not yeshiva students (the officer, who was religious himself, asked them a few questions which are supposed to be very basic knowledge for a religious students - and they couldn't answer them).

It should be noted that a small number of (non-student) haredim volunteer for military service. In particular, there's an infantry battalion established specifically for haredi recruits (the Nahal Haredi, AKA the Netzah Yehuda battalion) which is a rather good unit by all reports I've heard.

*Women (haredi or not) can get exempted from military service if they state they can't serve for religious reasons.

[eyl]

EDIT - I forgot to add that the situation of haredi exemptions - at least as it's constituted now - makes the economic aspect worse. The draft deferral is valid only so long as the person is a yeshiva student - if he stops his studies, it's no longer in effect. That means that the majority of male haredim in that age bracket can't legally work.