More Progress in Iraq

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More Progress in Iraq

Post by Jadeite »

Three new stories:

Link 1
Iraqi Prime Minister Says Bombings and Suicide Attacks Have Dropped Sharply in Baghdad

BAGHDAD (AP) -- Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki said Sunday suicide attacks and other bombings in the Iraqi capital have dropped dramatically since last year's high, calling it a sign of the end of sectarian violence. A top U.S. general here said he believes the drop is sustainable, as Iraqis turn away from extremists.

Al-Maliki said "terrorist acts" including car bombings and other spectacular, al-Qaida-style attacks dropped by 77 percent. He called it a sign that Sunni-Shiite violence was nearly gone from Baghdad.

"We are all realizing now that what Baghdad was seeing every day - dead bodies in the streets and morgues - is ebbing remarkably," al-Maliki told reporters at his office in the U.S.-guarded Green Zone.

"This is an indication that sectarianism intended as a gate of evil and fire in Iraq is now closed," he said.

Before the arrival of nearly 30,000 U.S. reinforcements this past spring, explosions shook Baghdad daily - sometimes hourly. The whiz of mortar and rocket fire crisscrossing the Tigris River was frequent. And the pop-pop of gunfire beat out a constant, somber rhythm of killing.

Now the sounds of warfare are rare. American troops have set up small outposts in some of the capital's most dangerous enclaves. Locals previously lukewarm to the presence of U.S. soldiers patrol alongside them. And a historic lane on the eastern banks of the Tigris is set to reopen later this year, lined with seafood restaurants and an art gallery.

Associated Press figures show a sharp drop in the number of U.S. and Iraqi deaths across the country in the past few months. The number of Iraqis who met violent deaths dropped from at least 1,023 in September to at least 905 in October, according to an AP count.

The number of American military deaths fell from 65 to at least 39 over the same period.

Maj. Gen. Rick Lynch, commander of U.S. forces south of the capital, said Sunday he believed the decrease would hold, because of what he called a "groundswell" of support from regular Iraqis.

"If we didn't have so many people coming forward to help, I'd think this is a flash in the pan. But that's just not the case," Lynch told a small group of reporters over lunch in the Green Zone.

He attributed the sharp drop in attacks to the American troop buildup, the setup of small outposts at the heart of Iraqi communities, and help from locals fed up with al-Qaida and other extremists.

"These people - Sunni and Shiite - are saying, `I've had enough,'" Lynch said.

The U.S. military has recruited at least 26,000 Iraqis to help target militants in Lynch's area of operations, he said. The religiously mixed area, which includes suburbs of Baghdad and all of Karbala, Najaf and Wassit province along the Iranian border, is about the size of the U.S. state of West Virginia.

Some 17,000 of those people, whom the U.S. military calls "concerned local citizens," are paid $300 a month to man checkpoints and guard critical infrastructure in their hometowns, Lynch said.

"They live there, and they know who's the good guy and who's the bad guy," he said.

Such local expertise has paid off for American troops and their Iraqi counterparts, who have killed or captured about 3,000 insurgents in the area in the past year, Lynch said.

Many of those who have not joined the U.S.-led fight against extremists have fled, al-Maliki said.

"The majority of these terrorists are fleeing to nearby countries, and I warned our brothers in the Islamic and Arab countries to be aware," he said.

The prime minister also said he was considering an amnesty for those "who were lured or committed some crimes," although he added that the move would not include those "convicted of killings or bombings."

In a sign the government is working toward reconciliation, 70 former members of Saddam Hussein's party were reinstated to their jobs after they joined the fight against al-Qaida in Anbar province, said Ali al-Lami, a senior official with the commission that considered their cases.

Al-Lami told the AP that the former Baath party members included 12 university professors, officers in the disbanded Iraqi army, former policemen and teachers.

Despite security improvements, a trickle of violence continued Sunday, with at least 10 people were killed or found dead around the country. The toll included a 12-year-old girl in Baghdad's Baladiyat area, who was killed by a roadside bomb that aimed for an American convoy but missed its target, police said.

Also Sunday, the U.S. military said it had achieved "significant progress" in operations against al-Qaida in four northern provinces since American and Iraqi forces launched Operation Iron Hammer last week.

A U.S. statement said during the first week of the operation, U.S. and Iraqi forces had detained more than 200 suspected extremists, captured three "high value" al-Qaida operatives and seized more than a ton of various explosives.

American officers had predicted that al-Qaida and other extremists groups would try to regroup in the mostly Sunni north after they were driven from strongholds in Baghdad and Diyala province this year.
I'll bet that creating 26,000 new jobs was probably one of the biggest reasons for the gains made in Lynch's zone, particularly since $3,600 a year ($300/month) is almost twice Iraq's GDP per capita of $1,900. Anyway, on to the next story:
U.S. military detains 200 in Iraq operation

BAGHDAD (Reuters) - U.S. and Iraqi forces have detained more than 200 suspected insurgents and three "high-value" al Qaeda operatives in a major operation in northern Iraq, the U.S. military said on Sunday.

It said in a statement that significant progress had been made against al Qaeda in Iraq during the first week of the operation in four northern provinces.

The operation had also netted multiple weapons caches that included more than a tonne of various explosives, hundreds of artillery rounds and rockets, the statement added.

"The combined operations of Iraqi Security Forces and U.S. Army brigades in our four provinces in Northern Iraq have been nothing short of phenomenal," said U.S. Major-General Mark Hertling, a senior military commander in Iraq.

The operation aims to keep up pressure on Sunni Islamist al Qaeda. Many operatives from the militant group fled to northern Iraq from western Anbar province and Baghdad when the U.S. military stepped up offensives in those areas earlier this year.

The U.S. military has hailed what it calls successes in fighting al Qaeda in Iraq, but has warned that the group, which is blamed for most major car bombings in Iraq, could regroup.
Keeping them on the defensive, and going after their support network and supplies, and finally, turning them against each other.
Clash between ex-insurgents, al-Qaida in Iraq kills 18 in terror group

BAGHDAD (AP) - Former Sunni insurgents asked the U.S. to stay away, then ambushed members of al-Qaida in Iraq, killing 18 in a battle that raged for hours north of Baghdad, an ex-insurgent leader and Iraqi police said Saturday.

Fighters of the Islamic Army in Iraq staged the surprise attack Friday afternoon near Samarra, sending advance word to Iraqi police and requesting that U.S. helicopters stay away, since the fighters had no uniforms and were indistinguishable from al-Qaida.

Much of the Islamic Army in Iraq has joined the U.S.-led fight against al-Qaida in Iraq, along with Sunni tribesmen and other former insurgents repelled by the terror group's brutality and extremism.

A top Islamic Army leader known as Abu Ibrahim told The Associated Press that his fighters attacked al-Qaida southeast of Samarra, a mostly Sunni city about 90 kilometers (60 miles) north of Baghdad.

"We found out that al-Qaida intended to attack us, so we ambushed them at 3 p.m. on Friday," Abu Ibrahim said. He said 18 militants were killed and 16 captured, but would not say whether any Islamic Army members were killed.

An Iraqi police officer corroborated Abu Ibrahim's account, but said policemen were not able to verify the number of bodies because the area was still too dangerous to enter. He said the hostages would not be transferred to Iraqi police.

Instead, he said he believed the Islamic Army would offer a prisoner swap for some of its members held by al-Qaida. The officer spoke on condition of anonymity because of the situation's sensitivity.

Before the battle, the insurgent commander contacted Iraqi police in Samarra himself to tell them his plans, according to the officer and Abu Ibrahim himself. He asked that Iraqi authorities inform the American military about his plans, and requested that no U.S. troops interfere, they said.

The U.S. military said Saturday it had no record of U.S. troops ever being informed about the operation, and it was unclear whether Iraqi police followed through on Abu Ibrahim's request.

Meanwhile, farther east in Diyala province, members of another former insurgent group, the 1920s Revolution Brigades, launched a military-style operation Saturday against al-Qaida in Iraq there, the Iraqi Army said.
About 60 militants were captured and handed over to Iraqi soldiers, an Army officer said on condition of anonymity because he was not allowed to speak to media.

Afterward, hundreds of people paraded through the streets of Buhriz, about 60 kilometers (35 miles) north of Baghdad, witnesses said. Many danced and fired their guns into the air, shouting "Down with al-Qaida!" and "Diyala is for all Iraqis!"

Like the Islamic Army, the 1920s Revolution Brigades includes former members of Saddam Hussein's Baath Party and officers from his Army. Hundreds of 1920s members now work as scouts and gather intelligence for American soldiers in Diyala.

And at Baghdad's most revered Sunni shrine, the Abu Hanifa mosque, voices blasted from loudspeakers Saturday urging residents to turn against al-Qaida as well: "We are your sons, the sons of the awakening, and we want to end the operations of al-Qaida...We call upon you not to be frightened, and to cooperate with us."

So-called "awakening councils" have sprouted up in communities across Iraq, where members swear allegiance to Iraq's U.S.-backed government and disavow militants. U.S. officials say the councils have been key to tamping violence in recent months.

The backlash against al-Qaida among Iraq's Sunni Arab community began in Iraq's western Anbar province last year: Americans recruited Sunni sheiks to help oust al-Qaida from their home turf, and the movement spread to former militants who once even fought U.S. and Iraqi soldiers themselves.

Along with a U.S. force buildup 30,000 troops strong, they're credited with wresting neighborhoods back from the terror network yielding a sharp drop in violence here in recent months.

The top commander for U.S. forces in the Middle East, Navy Adm. William Fallon, said Friday that a grass-roots shift among Iraqis both Sunni and Shia against insurgents in their midst has been critical to the improvement.

"Over the last year, many people in Iraq, I believe, have gotten fed up with the extremists on both sides," Fallon told the AP in an interview during a stop in Hawaii on his way back to U.S. Central Command headquarters in Florida from a trip in Pakistan, Central Asia and Singapore.

"The situation has dramatically improved in the last five months in particular," he said. Some 50,000 Iraqis have signed up to be what the military calls "concerned local citizens" in a project Fallon compared to a neighborhood watch program.

Also Saturday, the U.S. military on Saturday announced the death of another American soldier, killed a day earlier in an explosion in Diyala. Three others were wounded in the blast, it said.

At least 3,861 members of the U.S. military have died since the beginning of the Iraq war in March 2003, according to an AP count. The figure includes eight civilians working for the military.

The military also said its troops detained 10 suspects in raids Saturday across central and northern parts of the country.

Twenty people were killed or found dead across Iraq on Saturday, including four civilians who died on minibuses hit by roadside bombs on their way to work, police said.

One of the explosions, which missed the passing police patrol that was apparently its target, struck a minibus, killing two people in a predominantly Shiite area of Baghdad, an officer said on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to release the information.

One of the victims, Qais Hassoun, was riding in a nearby pickup truck. He spoke to AP Television News at a hospital in the Sadr City area, where the victims lay on gurneys in a grimy corridor.

"We are just construction workers, trying to get to our jobs. We were riding in the minibus when the explosion went off," Hassoun said.
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Post by SirNitram »

So basically there's still no political reconciliation, which is what the whole Surge was for, so it's still a total failure of a strategy. And of course we ignore that once again, we have someone parroting the 'A-Q is the main enemy in Iraq!' nonsense.

Another corner turned. It's a goddamn circle.
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Post by wolveraptor »

I'm not surprised that attacks have gone down in Baghdad. That city does have the highest concentration of US troops. However, the other two articles disappointed me with their focus on Al Qaeda as the main source of insurgency in Iraq. What about Muqtada Al-Sadr and the Mahdi Army? They're completely renegade, and last I checked, they're being relied on by the central government to maintain order in Shi'ite regions of Iraq. They're also headed by someone who's adamantly opposed to the America occupation.

All these stories show is that Iraqis are getting tired of Al Qaeda's interference in their affairs. That doesn't mean we're progressing towards our ultimate goal of producing a federal democracy.
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Post by Lord of the Abyss »

wolveraptor wrote:I'm not surprised that attacks have gone down in Baghdad. That city does have the highest concentration of US troops.
That, and the ethnic cleansing is pretty much over with, and successfully so for the cleansers in Baghdad, or so I've heard. Everyone's in their own little fortified enclave, with no mixing. Violence does tend to slow down when the violent people win.
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Post by Patrick Degan »

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Post by Sam Or I »

Progress is finally being made. Which is always good news. But war is fluid, and the whole situation could go up in smoke tomorrow.

The surge has slowed the voilence for the time being, but nothing is certian, and political reconciliation still needs to take place.

The explanation of ethnic clensing being completed does not explain the drop of attacks against US Forces the Drop in IED attacks against US Forces.

Again all this does not mean the US is winning, it just means that the US is starting to make some head way.
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Post by SirNitram »

Sam Or I wrote:Again all this does not mean the US is winning, it just means that the US is starting to make some head way.
No. It really doesn't. 'Making some headway' would mean the US is approaching it's objectives for it's strategy. Guess what? 'Political reconciliation' was the objective of the change in strategy. It hasn't happened. So no. There's no progress. There's counting bodybags.

How well did that go in Vietnam, precisely?
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Post by The Yosemite Bear »

heh, yeah our inflated bodycounts...
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Post by Edi »

Going by the figures in the first article, attacks for October showed a 10% drop in fatalities compared to September, which is ahrdly the kind of groundbreaking progress they are touting this as. There has been greater fluctuatiion month to month. If they can keep this downward trend going, then there might be something.
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Post by wolveraptor »

Sam Or I wrote:The explanation of ethnic clensing being completed does not explain the drop of attacks against US Forces the Drop in IED attacks against US Forces.
What does explain that drop is the decrease in Al Qaeda operatives in Iraq, who were primarily concerned with attacking US troops. Local insurgents, on the other hand, are more concerned with killing each other. If that means killing US troops, so be it.
Again all this does not mean the US is winning, it just means that the US is starting to make some head way.
Yes, against Al Qaeda. However, that was not our stated goal in entering Iraq, (though it is supposed to be part of our broader goal in the War on Terror TM)
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Post by Jadeite »

In regards to political reconciliation, this was mentioned in the first article:
In a sign the government is working toward reconciliation, 70 former members of Saddam Hussein's party were reinstated to their jobs after they joined the fight against al-Qaida in Anbar province, said Ali al-Lami, a senior official with the commission that considered their cases.

Al-Lami told the AP that the former Baath party members included 12 university professors, officers in the disbanded Iraqi army, former policemen and teachers.
It wouldn't surprise me if the officers had militia connections, given that the Baathists formed the core of the early insurgency.

From the last article:
Meanwhile, farther east in Diyala province, members of another former insurgent group, the 1920s Revolution Brigades, launched a military-style operation Saturday against al-Qaida in Iraq there, the Iraqi Army said.

About 60 militants were captured and handed over to Iraqi soldiers, an Army officer said on condition of anonymity because he was not allowed to speak to media.

Afterward, hundreds of people paraded through the streets of Buhriz, about 60 kilometers (35 miles) north of Baghdad, witnesses said. Many danced and fired their guns into the air, shouting "Down with al-Qaida!" and "Diyala is for all Iraqis!"

Like the Islamic Army, the 1920s Revolution Brigades includes former members of Saddam Hussein's Baath Party and officers from his Army. Hundreds of 1920s members now work as scouts and gather intelligence for American soldiers in Diyala.
The 1920 Revolution Brigades was one of the largest Sunni insurgent groups, the fact that its stopped fighting the Iraqi government and American troops, and is instead fighting other insurgent groups, is a pretty good sign.

The majority of Iraqi's fighting the US and Iraqi government have been Sunnis, and their forces fit roughly into two groups: Domestic groups that are primarily nationalist and at least somewhat secular, usually composed of former Baathists or those who had connections to Hussein's government, and foreign groups who are primarily religious in motivation and belief.

The foreign Sunni groups are also the ones that use the bloodiest tactics and have done the most to stir up the Sunni/Shi'ite conflict, and it's a good sign when Iraqis are turning against them.

Creating 26,000 new and well-paying jobs is also particularly good, as an unemployed Iraqi is a potential insurgent. If you're unemployed and worrying that your family will go hungry, and the local militia offers you a job digging holes for them to plant IEDs in, that becomes a pretty tempting offer.
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Post by SirNitram »

You have to love how Jadeite does exactly like all the idiots propping up endless 'Corners turned' and 'victories' and so forth in Iraq. Still we have the mindless adherence to the 'FOREIGN SUNNIS ARE BEHIND IT!' meme. Still we have the stupidity that 'political reconciliation' is 'Letting the Baathists in'. Huh. You'd think there weren't two ethnic groups at each others throats.

So Jadeite. How's the progress on the millions of displaced? How about trust in the US and it's security forces from the populace? Well, let's try a softball. When will the Iraqis be able to apply for refugee status to enter the US inside Iraq, as opposed to trying to get to the US Embassies in other countries?

But Jadeite, much like the rest of the idiots who think Iraq is the best war ever, will continue to announce victory and progress continually. Why don't you go hang out with Lieberman, kiddo?
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Post by The Spartan »

SirNitram wrote:So Jadeite. How's the progress on the millions of displaced?
I'd like to handle this one if I may.

I hear a report read from the NY Times (sorry no link) that the flights carrying people out of Iraq had started dwindling, passenger wise, while the flights carrying people back in had started to fill back up.

However, on Countdown IIRC, I hear that Saudi Arabia has stopped granting refugee status to Iraqis and begun implementing a strict visa system, i.e they're turning everyone around. And oh by the way the number of internal refugees in Iraq has jumped from 2 million to 2.3 million.

Oops.

Of course that doesn't stop right wing commentators (like the Corpulent Pill Popper himself) crowing about how people are returning to Iraq and it's victory over the insurgents and America hating liberals because the surge worked! But then, no one ever said they had to be honest...
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Post by Ritterin Sophia »

Lord of the Abyss wrote:
wolveraptor wrote:I'm not surprised that attacks have gone down in Baghdad. That city does have the highest concentration of US troops.
That, and the ethnic cleansing is pretty much over with, and successfully so for the cleansers in Baghdad, or so I've heard. Everyone's in their own little fortified enclave, with no mixing. Violence does tend to slow down when the violent people win.
I'd actually attribute it more to the fact that the pattern for the entire occupation has been that the violence flares during the summer and early fall and drops off during the late fall and winter.
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Post by Stravo »

Spin the surge any way you like, one figure you can't escape from is that this has been the bloodiest year for Americans in Iraq. That's not progress by any way of measurement. And just so that we don't forget there's another front in this war, it has been the bloodiest for Americans in Afghanistan too.

You can't spin your way out of American body bags. This fiasco has no corners to turn yet.
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Post by Einhander Sn0m4n »

So lemme get this straight. After digging the hole downward in Iraq so quickly this year that it sets a new record for casualties, it's now reason to celebrate now that we're digging sideways? When does it end? When do the troops come home? When does America start to atone to an angry world for its crimes perpetrated under the Bush/Cheney regime!?
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Post by Civil War Man »

The continual touting of progress and corner turning makes this entire thing feel like Zeno's hypothetical race between Achilles and a tortoise. The US as Achilles seems to be (to go by what right wing apologists are saying) continually making progress, yet for all the progress we supposedly make we find ourselves no nearer to actually passing the tortoise.
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Post by Lord of the Abyss »

Einhander Sn0m4n wrote: When does America start to atone to an angry world for its crimes perpetrated under the Bush/Cheney regime!?
Never. I seriously doubt that we'll ever collectively admit that we were in the wrong, much less atone.
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Post by Edi »

The Spartan wrote:
SirNitram wrote:So Jadeite. How's the progress on the millions of displaced?
I'd like to handle this one if I may.

I hear a report read from the NY Times (sorry no link) that the flights carrying people out of Iraq had started dwindling, passenger wise, while the flights carrying people back in had started to fill back up.

However, on Countdown IIRC, I hear that Saudi Arabia has stopped granting refugee status to Iraqis and begun implementing a strict visa system, i.e they're turning everyone around. And oh by the way the number of internal refugees in Iraq has jumped from 2 million to 2.3 million.

Oops.

Of course that doesn't stop right wing commentators (like the Corpulent Pill Popper himself) crowing about how people are returning to Iraq and it's victory over the insurgents and America hating liberals because the surge worked! But then, no one ever said they had to be honest...
The flights out is a meaningless staistic, since by far the majority of the refugees have gone overland in trucks, buses and cars. So the NYT article is meaningless bullshit and its priamry use is probably as apologism for the whole fiasco.
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Post by The Spartan »

Edi wrote:The flights out is a meaningless staistic, since by far the majority of the refugees have gone overland in trucks, buses and cars. So the NYT article is meaningless bullshit and its priamry use is probably as apologism for the whole fiasco.
Exactly my point. And even overland escape is failing now what with the jump in internal refugees.
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Post by Sam Or I »

General Schatten wrote: I'd actually attribute it more to the fact that the pattern for the entire occupation has been that the violence flares during the summer and early fall and drops off during the late fall and winter.
I find that really funny. Some one else was arguing the opposite in a previous post that the fighting dies down in the the summer due to heat and picks back up in the winter.

heres the link
http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic. ... ight=surge

Here is a chart detailing the casualties.
http://icasualties.org/oif/US_chart.aspx
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Post by Darth Wong »

Does it ever occur to these apologist imbeciles that the rate of "ethnic cleansing" incidents is going down because many of the disputed neighbourhoods have been successfully "cleansed"?

Before the war, Baghdad was 65% Sunni. Today, it is 25% Sunni. What do those numbers tell you?
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Einhander Sn0m4n
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Post by Einhander Sn0m4n »

Lord of the Abyss wrote:
Einhander Sn0m4n wrote: When does America start to atone to an angry world for its crimes perpetrated under the Bush/Cheney regime!?
Never. I seriously doubt that we'll ever collectively admit that we were in the wrong, much less atone.
Oh yay, a repeat of the Japanese behavior after WWII. Like we need any more of that brand of fucktardism in the world :roll:
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TheMuffinKing
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Post by TheMuffinKing »

Einhander Sn0m4n wrote:
Lord of the Abyss wrote:
Einhander Sn0m4n wrote: When does America start to atone to an angry world for its crimes perpetrated under the Bush/Cheney regime!?
Never. I seriously doubt that we'll ever collectively admit that we were in the wrong, much less atone.
Oh yay, a repeat of the Japanese behavior after WWII. Like we need any more of that brand of fucktardism in the world :roll:
Well I'm sure none of our presidents will be visiting any war shrines... unless maybe we have a rape Baghdad...
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Darth Wong
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Post by Darth Wong »

You have to love the gall of the people who are applauding the "Anbar Awakening". Let's go over the timetable:

Saddam Hussein: the Sunnis are the good guys, the Shias need to be kept under control, the Kurds are dangerous, and the real threat is Iran.

United States, circa 2003: The Sunni insurgents are the bad guys, the Shias are finally free of Sunni oppression, and the real threat is Al-Quaeda.

United States, circa 2005: The Sunnis and Shias are both bad guys, but the Kurds are still on our side. And the real threat is still Al-Quaeda.

United States, circa 2007: The Sunnis in Anbar Province are the good guys because they're fighting Al-Quaeda, the Shias need to be kept under control, the Kurds are a potentially dangerous destabilizing factor, and the real threat is Iran.

That's a lot of money, bloodshed, and confusion to end up coming back to exactly the same position that Hussein held.
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"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing

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