Lord Norman Tebbit: "Kids should go out on shoots"

[Big Orange]

I know it's from the barmy Daily Mail but still:

Tory Lord Tebbit slammed for saying young boys should be taught to shoot
By LAURA CLARK

Teenage boys should be taken pheasant shooting to teach them how to behave responsibly around guns, Tory peer Lord Tebbit has said.

The former Cabinet minister said controlled exposure to firearms would show them the true nature of violence and let them vent their aggression while learning discipline and the ability to obey orders.

Lord Tebbit, 76, who regularly hunts pheasant and rabbits near his West Sussex home, said: "Kids should go out on shoots. It gives them a sense of excitement and kids, particularly young boys, have a need for a degree of violence.

"It is much better than playing a ghastly computer game. To have them struggling through the brambles, seeing people shoot, is much more in the interest of the kids. Boys would soon find themselves in a man's world and having to obey instructions."

His call is intended as a radical answer to spiralling gun crime among teenagers. But critics branded it "extremely dangerous and reckless".

Chris Keates, general secretary of the NASUWT teachers' union, said: "I cannot believe you can improve behaviour in society in general by encouraging youngsters to use weapons. Violence does nothing other than breed violence."

Eileen Harrild, a teacher shot by Thomas Hamilton during the Dunblane massacre in 1996, said the proposal was "too ludicrous to be true" and added:

"How can he even consider something like this?".

Liberal Democrat spokesman Chris Huhne said: "Training everyone to use guns would encourage their use. We need tougher, targeted stop and search to crack down on gun and knife crime."

But Tim Bonner of the Countryside Alliance said: "I agree with Lord Tebbit. We can't allow our children to get their hands on guns. It is better for them to understand.

"We teach boys about legitimate shooting. Once you see what a gun can do to a small animal you are less likely to use it on a human being."

Link

[loomer]

I agree, actually, but that's just me. Except the hunting/anti-video game part. Take some kids to the range for a day when they're young, teach them how to handle a gun and how to recognize it, so when they find daddy's pistol they don't blow their own head off.

[Dark Hellion]

Yah, while he sounds like a stodgy old man I see no problem with teaching your kids that guns are dangerous, that they are weapons, and that they can have clear usages within civilized society. Of course, I grew up around guns, so I don't have the fear of them that some Europeans seem to.

[Einhander Sn0m4n]

I prefer this as 'extra-credit' coursework, myself. Teach the kids that a gun is a tool to be treated with respect like any other powered tool, such as a vehicle, router, drill press, circular saw, etc. Teach them that a gun is a weapon to be used for hunting and defense only. Give them a graphic demonstration of its destructive power. Familiarizing people with guns will serve to dispel myths about them from special interests, Bradys and NRA alike.

Teach them also that video games don't reflect reality while we're at it, too.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

Though taking them out hunting is a bit excessive, mandatory firearms safety classes might be quite wise in high school, particularly in the United States.

[Stuart]

I prefer this as 'extra-credit' coursework, myself. Teach the kids that a gun is a tool to be treated with respect like any other powered tool, such as a vehicle, router, drill press, circular saw, etc. Teach them that a gun is a weapon to be used for hunting and defense only. Give them a graphic demonstration of its destructive power. Familiarizing people with guns will serve to dispel myths about them from special interests, Bradys and NRA alike. Teach them also that video games don't reflect reality while we're at it, too.

What he said. Teach children to handle guns safely and responsibly when they're at an early stage. Take the mystique out of them, put them at the same level as any other tool or sport. At our range we've got eight or nine year old kids who handle their rifles and pistols perfectly responsibly.

[Glocksman]

Yah, while he sounds like a stodgy old man I see no problem with teaching your kids that guns are dangerous, that they are weapons, and that they can have clear usages within civilized society. Of course, I grew up around guns, so I don't have the fear of them that some Europeans seem to.

Much the same here, as my Dad taught me how to handle a .22 rifle when I was 8.
In fact, I now own that gun (a Remington Nylon 66) and it's one of my most cherished possessions because of the good memories associated with it.

[Napoleon the Clown]

Young boys don't have "a need for some violence" any more than young girls have a need for a doll house.


That being said, gun safety training from a young age would be a very good thing. Too few people respect how quickly a gun will kill things.

[Stuart Mackey]

Chris Keates, general secretary of the NASUWT teachers' union, said: "I cannot believe you can improve behaviour in society in general by encouraging youngsters to use weapons. Violence does nothing other than breed violence."

Eileen Harrild, a teacher shot by Thomas Hamilton during the Dunblane massacre in 1996, said the proposal was "too ludicrous to be true" and added:

"How can he even consider something like this?".

Liberal Democrat spokesman Chris Huhne said: "Training everyone to use guns would encourage their use. We need tougher, targeted stop and search to crack down on gun and knife crime."

Because knowledge is dangerous and ignorance is bliss.

[K. A. Pital]

Much talk about nothing. He's not advocating all youngsters to be trained at adeptly murdering people with guns; however, I can understand the position of those who reject child gun training - a trained person has a far higher chance to murder someone with 100% success than an untrained one.

I'd go as far as summarily ban child gun knowledge and any access to guns for youngsters whatsoever; and parents who leave guns accessible by neglience, in case of murder, would be harshly tried and thrown into prison to rot.

A little extreme? Maybe. But we don't think young punks behind cars are a good idea, right? We have terms for driving licenses, exams. And the owner of a car bears responsibility for a manslaughter if someone else drove his car and did it. Neither do we teach kids to drive cars. Nor leave car keys for them to use.

[Jawawithagun]

I can't believe I agree with one of the cunts of the Countryside Alliance but I do. Even more so seeing the kneejerk reaction of the other side who don't even seem to see what he is actually proposing but rather run with their own version.

[Civil War Man]

Liberal Democrat spokesman Chris Huhne said: "Training everyone to use guns would encourage their use. We need tougher, targeted stop and search to crack down on gun and knife crime."

The first sentence just makes me think "abstinence-only gun safety education"

[K. A. Pital]

Does Britain have wide legal firearm circulation, like the US?

[Zed Snardbody]

Does Britain have wide legal firearm circulation, like the US?

Ha!

Hardly. Hunting rifles as I understand are terribly restricted, along with pocket knives and the like.

[Ma Deuce]

Hardly. Hunting rifles as I understand are terribly restricted, along with pocket knives and the like.

Yep, they have some of the strictest gun laws in the Western world, with all handguns, and semi-auto and pump-action long guns banned, with everything else heavily restricted and each individual is limited in how many firearms they can own. Even so, firearm ownership was nowhere remotely as prevalent as the United States before even before the current laws were enacted 11 years ago.

[Zed Snardbody]

Hardly. Hunting rifles as I understand are terribly restricted, along with pocket knives and the like.

Yep, they have some of the strictest gun laws in the Western world, with all handguns, and semi-auto and pump-action long guns banned, with everything else heavily restricted and each individual is limited in how many firearms they can own. Even so, firearm ownership was nowhere remotely as prevalent as the United States before even before the current laws were enacted 11 years ago.

Well we have to make sure your damn king doesn't come back over here and start pushing people around and trying to quarter soldiers in my apartment!

[K. A. Pital]

In that case there's little danger I guess.

[Glocksman]

In that case there's little danger I guess.

Reading between the lines, I think his real motivation is to introduce young people to hunting in order to counter the animal rights loons pushing the 'hunting is evil' meme and who want to ban all hunting.

[Einhander Sn0m4n]

I prefer this as 'extra-credit' coursework, myself. Teach the kids that a gun is a tool to be treated with respect like any other powered tool, such as a vehicle, router, drill press, circular saw, etc. Teach them that a gun is a weapon to be used for hunting and defense only. Give them a graphic demonstration of its destructive power. Familiarizing people with guns will serve to dispel myths about them from special interests, Bradys and NRA alike. Teach them also that video games don't reflect reality while we're at it, too.

What he said. Teach children to handle guns safely and responsibly when they're at an early stage. Take the mystique out of them, put them at the same level as any other tool or sport. At our range we've got eight or nine year old kids who handle their rifles and pistols perfectly responsibly.

Though taking them out hunting is a bit excessive, mandatory firearms safety classes might be quite wise in high school, particularly in the United States.

You guys cribbed my post or something?

[Justforfun000]

When it comes right down to it, taking kids out hunting won't do a fucking thing as to preventing gun crime. That's a completely different kettle of fish. It has to do with bad attitudes, improper morals and social inequality.

Many kids would have no desire to shoot anything living. Others might get a kick out of it. Others would be indifferent. The idea that involving youngsters in a hunting expedition will somehow steer them in the 'right' direction as to firearms is nothing but pie-in-the-sky bullshit. It's just as unrealistic as the opposite extreme of believing that if you teach kids nothing but Bambi-like ideas of nature, that they will grow up to be tree-hugging peaceniks.

The world is just not that simple, and neither are people.

As others have said, for those who WISH to be so taught, it can be a useful course on gun safety. Other than that, it's nothing more then another simplistic idea of child rearing that claims to lead to a well-rounded individual.

[Napoleon the Clown]

When it comes right down to it, taking kids out hunting won't do a fucking thing as to preventing gun crime. That's a completely different kettle of fish. It has to do with bad attitudes, improper morals and social inequality.

While any sort of impact on gun crime would be negligible, it would help to reduce gun related accidents, which would reduce gun related fatalities. I don't see how a proper respect for guns is a bad thing.

[Glocksman]

When it comes right down to it, taking kids out hunting won't do a fucking thing as to preventing gun crime. That's a completely different kettle of fish. It has to do with bad attitudes, improper morals and social inequality.

While any sort of impact on gun crime would be negligible, it would help to reduce gun related accidents, which would reduce gun related fatalities. I don't see how a proper respect for guns is a bad thing.

In the UK, where guns are highly restricted and the ownership rate is very very low, it probably wouldn't lower accident rates very much simply because there aren't many legal firearms around.

In the US, with its high ownership rates and easy (with the exception of a few states) legal availability of firearms, safety and handling courses are good idea.
Though for really young children, even the NRA advocates advocates a different approach with it's Eddie Eagle program.

The Eddie Eagle GunSafe® Program teaches children in pre-K through third grade four important steps to take if they find a gun. These steps are presented by the program's mascot, Eddie Eagle®, in an easy-to-remember format consisting of the following simple rules:

If you see a gun:

STOP!
Don't Touch.
Leave the Area.
Tell an Adult.

[K. A. Pital]

Good program.

Actually, even if someone is a teen, my most sincere advice for him would be to get his hands the fuck away from a gun, no matter whose gun this is: his parents, or someone else's just lying around.

Just the same as if I were a public servant and I saw a teen in a car, I wouldn't give a damn how his daddy "taught him how to drive", I'd tell him to get his hands off the steering wheel right now. Hell, I could do that even if I were a simple citizen.

[Dartzap]

Guns are not banned. Common misconception that. If they were, those gun shops I go past have been there a bloody long time without the Fuzz noticing.

[Glocksman]

Actually, even if someone is a teen, my most sincere advice for him would be to get his hands the fuck away from a gun, no matter whose gun this is: his parents, or someone else's just lying around.

If he's not under adult supervision, I agree.
But this is one of those issues where my own positive 'bonding' experiences as a kid learning to shoot with my Dad has colored my thinking.
However, the US accidental[/b] gun death rate average from 1999 to 2005 for the newborn to 17 year old age group is 0.17 per 100,000, which is very very low.


But admit it Stas, wouldn't you love to have a Moisin M38 carbine or a Nagant revolver as collector's memorabilia of the Great Patriotic War?