Japan accuses Russia of incursion

[[R_H]]

BBC

Japan has accused Russia of violating its airspace over the Pacific Izu islands and demanded an explanation.

A Russian Tupolev 95 bomber flew for about three minutes over the isle of Sofugan, 650km (400 miles) south of Tokyo, Japanese officials said.

Japan responded by scrambling 22 jets and lodging an official protest with the Russian embassy.

But a spokesman for the Russian air force denied any incursion into Japanese airspace had occurred.

Alexander Drobyshevsky told Russia's Itar-Tass news agency that strategic bomber flights had been "carried out in strict accordance with international rules on flying over neutral waters, without violating the border between the two countries".

Rally

Russia last violated Japan's airspace in January 2006 near Rebun Island near the northern island of Hokkaido, Japanese officials said.

On Thursday, Japan held an annual rally to demand the return of four disputed islands - known as the Kurils in Russia and the Northern Territories in Japan - which Russia seized in the closing days of World War II.

The dispute has prevented the two countries from signing a peace treaty to formally end the war.

It was not clear whether Saturday's flyby was related to the rally.

Despite their territorial disputes, Japan and Russia have recently indicated their desire to improve relations, the BBC's Chris Hogg reports from Tokyo.

Russia wants Japanese financial support for development of its far eastern regions while Japan wants greater access to Russia's oil reserves.

Whether the alleged incident was a mistake or something more sinister, such as an attempt to test Japan's defensive tactics, it has rattled the Japanese government, our correspondent says.

Tokyo has demanded a full explanation from Moscow.

[Admiral Valdemar]

Twenty-two jets?! We normally send a Tornado F3 or Typhoon deuce. Talk about overreacting.

Does seem like Russia is getting into its old ways again. Though why this is so shocking with the re-emergence of nationalism I don't know.

[Sidewinder]

Russia wants Japanese financial support for development of its far eastern regions while Japan wants greater access to Russia's oil reserves.

I'm reminded of Debt of Honor. Okay, conspiracy theorists, what are the odds that Japan might try to conquer Siberia? (In my opinion, ZERO. Tom Clancy's tin foil hat seems to be obscuring his vision, specifically, his ability to realistically analyse and compare the military capabilities of nations other than the US.)

[Tanasinn]

Twenty-two jets?! We normally send a Tornado F3 or Typhoon deuce. Talk about overreacting.

Japan doesn't want to look toothless. The more angrily they react to foreign chest-beating, the less likely it is to come from an actually dangerous source, like North Korea.

Or at least, that's how I figure it.

[Kane Starkiller]

Twenty-two jets?! We normally send a Tornado F3 or Typhoon deuce. Talk about overreacting.

Japan's military leadership probably has a very good memory as to what happened the last time a nuclear capable bomber entered Japanese airspace.

[andrewgpaul]

Also, the RAF gets to show off it's planes more often than the JASDF do. They're probably just bored.

[K. A. Pital]

That? That's nothing. And restoring Soviet-era aircraft patrols? Why shouldn't Russia do that? It should, by all means.

[Dartzap]

That? That's nothing. And restoring Soviet-era aircraft patrols? Why shouldn't Russia do that? It should, by all means.

Uh....why? Honest question, heh.

[Mange]

That? That's nothing. And restoring Soviet-era aircraft patrols? Why shouldn't Russia do that? It should, by all means.

Then Russia will have to accept the consequences if their aircraft is damaged or shot down while violating another country's airspace.

[montypython]

Then Russia will have to accept the consequences if their aircraft is damaged or shot down while violating another country's airspace.

Good reason for all those additional bombers just in case the Russians need to put those obstinate yahoos in there place...

[Kane Starkiller]

Maybe the Russians don't like the pussy pacifistic Japanese attitude and want to see what happens when you piss of a $4 trillion high-tech economy into heavy militarization.

[Sidewinder]

Maybe the Russians don't like the pussy pacifistic Japanese attitude and want to see what happens when you piss of a $4 trillion high-tech economy into heavy militarization.

If you've watched some anime or read some manga, you'll realize the Japanese idea of pacifism is to use military might to beat down supposed opponents of peace, e.g., the US. Those idiots do NOT want world peace, they want Japan to dominate the world and force other nations to be peaceful.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Maybe the Russians don't like the pussy pacifistic Japanese attitude and want to see what happens when you piss of a $4 trillion high-tech economy into heavy militarization.

Pussy Pacifists are a minority in the political realm. There are plenty of militarists who have been pushing very hard to remilitarize Japan, and they have only abated of late only because the so-called Japanese economy hasn't done as well as you might think.

[Uraniun235]

If you've watched some American television, you'll realize the American idea of pacifism is to use military might to beat down supposed opponents of peace, e.g., the "axis of evil". Those idiots do NOT want world peace, they want America to dominate the world and force other nations to be peaceful.

[Kane Starkiller]

Those idiots do NOT want world peace, they want Japan to dominate the world and force other nations to be peaceful.

Perfect description of the situation but the word "Japan" needs to be substituted with a name of a country 8000km to the east.

Pussy Pacifists are a minority in the political realm. There are plenty of militarists who have been pushing very hard to remilitarize Japan, and they have only abated of late only because the so-called Japanese economy hasn't done as well as you might think.

Yes there are plenty of militarists but there are no more provocations from NK to get them going. This is where the Russians come in.
And "so-called" economy? They have 377,000 km2 of territory and $33,800 GDP per capita. I'd take that "so-called" economy any day.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Yes there are plenty of militarists but there are no more provocations from NK to get them going. This is where the Russians come in.

You overrate NK and Russian provocations. China is the much bigger boogey and incursions by them are becoming a norm. And the Japanese would rather buy Russian gas and oil than have a fracas with them.

And "so-called" economy? They have 377,000 km2 of territory and $33,800 GDP per capita. I'd take that "so-called" economy any day.

And it's shrinking and declining slowly and surely and won't be 4th largest in a few decades.

[Kane Starkiller]

You overrate NK and Russian provocations. China is the much bigger boogey and incursions by them are becoming a norm. And the Japanese would rather buy Russian gas and oil than have a fracas with them.

It's pretty tough to beat flying a ballistic missile or a bomber over someone else's territory. Sure they'd like Russian oil. That doesn't mean they'll tolerate such behaviour.

And it's shrinking and declining slowly and surely and won't be 4th largest in a few decades.

It's not shrinking. Economic growth was 2% last year. It is being overtaken by other economies growing faster. Will their growth continue at the same rate through the following decades? Who knows.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

It's pretty tough to beat flying a ballistic missile or a bomber over someone else's territory. Sure they'd like Russian oil. That doesn't mean they'll tolerate such behaviour.

Yeah, like we should tolerate their continued veneration of their war heroes. Really, between Russian Imperialism and Japanese Imperialism, I'd rather not be in the latter, since I'd be dead in that one.

It's not shrinking. Economic growth was 2% last year. It is being overtaken by other economies growing faster. Will their growth continue at the same rate through the following decades? Who knows.

This article in this thread does not share your optimism, also, there are permanent trends involved that has not changed for the last decade:
http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic. ... torder=asc

[Kane Starkiller]

Yeah, like we should tolerate their continued veneration of their war heroes. Really, between Russian Imperialism and Japanese Imperialism, I'd rather not be in the latter, since I'd be dead in that one.

And I'd rather we live in 2008 where Japanese Imperialism is long dead and completely irrelevant to the current discussion.
And honestly, flying a balistic missile or a bomber over someone's else territory is somehow a valid response for a certain prime minister visiting some temple? Being an asshole is one thing, military provocation quite another.

This article in this thread does not share your optimism, also, there are permanent trends involved that has not changed for the last decade:
http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic. ... torder=asc

This article speaks about relative decline of Japanese economy. That is other countries like Brazil and Indonesia are expected to overtake it by 2050. Not only are those countries much bigger and more populous but no one can really predict the growth during that time. Japan is worlds third or fourth economy by size and high income country now.

[Sea Skimmer]

I'm reminded of Debt of Honor. Okay, conspiracy theorists, what are the odds that Japan might try to conquer Siberia? (In my opinion, ZERO. Tom Clancy's tin foil hat seems to be obscuring his vision, specifically, his ability to realistically analyse and compare the military capabilities of nations other than the US.)

You make the false assumption that he ever had such a capability. He could write an okay spy novel, but his only books with large scale fighting ect… were either written in conjunction with someone else who knew how to do it (Red Storm Rising), sucked shit (Debt of Honor, Executive Orders, Bear and the Dragon) or in the cases of his guided tour books, were written by a whole team of other people.

[RIPP_n_WIPE]

The dispute has prevented the two countries from signing a peace treaty to formally end the war.

Wow that's funny. So technically, japan and russia are still at war.

Isn't that something.

[The Guid]

I seem to remember the russian underestimating the Japanese one time before and it not going too well for them. Though that was back in the nineteenth century, the precedent is there though.

[That NOS Guy]

I seem to remember the russian underestimating the Japanese one time before and it not going too well for them. Though that was back in the nineteenth century, the precedent is there though.

Early 20th, mind your dates

Though I wonder what Japan put up to intercept this bear, IIRC their F-15s are down. It's just a Cold War flashback to think of F-4s intercepting a Tu-95.

[TithonusSyndrome]

The dispute has prevented the two countries from signing a peace treaty to formally end the war.

Wow that's funny. So technically, japan and russia are still at war.

Isn't that something.

I have to wonder if the change of government in Russia would also mean a technical end to formal hostilities.

[Vympel]

22 jets against a single Tu-95MS that, if it really wanted to start some shit, would've just launched its 6 Kh-55 ALCMs from up to 2,500-3,000km away.