Police Told Daughter To Stop Calling Before Murder-Suicide

Schuyler Colfax · Post by **Schuyler Colfax** » 2008-02-18 02:17pm

http://www.local6.com/news/15330073/detail.html

DELAND, Fla. -- A Central Florida woman whose 17-year-old daughter was killed in a murder-suicide apparently committed by her ex-boyfriend said the teen was told by police to stop calling for help or she'd be arrested.

Police said Clay Coffner shot his estranged girlfriend in the head outside her DeLand home Friday before turning the gun on himself

Hall's mother, Sherry, said her daughter was concerned about Coffner and informed police.

In fact, Hall said her daughter called police so much that on Jan. 15 they threatened her.

"The police officer said if you call us one more time on him, I'm going to arrest you both," Sherry Hall said. "So, the day she died, she knew she couldn't talk to police. So, she handled it herself."

Michele Karpowicz said everyone noticed the warning signs before the homicide -- except police.

"I was going crazy," Hall's best friend said. "He was psycho, jealous and abusive."

Local 6 is trying to obtain a police call log to determine how many times the teen called police.

DeLand police officials have not responded to the allegations.

Watch Local 6 News for more on this story.

That's fucked up.

Singular Intellect · Post by **Singular Intellect** » 2008-02-18 02:25pm

It looks bad on the face of it, but try to imagine how many false alarms and bullshit calls the police get all the time (especially from young people).

The police have very limited resources on hand, and they cannot respond to every call they recieve. Sometimes they have to make a judgement call, and there's always potential for mistakes there. Just on the surface here, it sounds like the police were dealing with an example of the "crying wolf" syndrome.

I wouldn't blame the police here...instead I'd blame society that has so many stupid assholes and whiners that abuse the system and prevent the police from determining what is a serious call and what isn't.

Schuyler Colfax · Post by **Schuyler Colfax** » 2008-02-18 02:28pm

I see what you mean. I didn't really look at like that before.

Singular Intellect · Post by **Singular Intellect** » 2008-02-18 02:39pm

What pisses me off about the article is how "everyone was noticing the signs".

That's wonderful...but instead of just noticing, perhaps they could've fucking tried doing something about it?

Start with something simple, like I dunno, telling the girl in question to stop seeing the fucker?

I hate to say it, but this story is very similiar to female friends of mine (without the whole murder part) that have asshole boyfriends. Guys who treat them like shit, cheat on them, get physically abusive, and yet the women still crawl back to them the instant these guys half heartily say "sorry" or "I'll change".

I'm very protective of women myself, but at the same time, I have a very low tolerance for stupidity too. I've tried talking to them, laying it down that they need to stop seeing this guy. They nod, agree, and then end up seeing him anyway.

More than once I've washed my hands of the affair and quite simply put it "If you're that fucking stupid, you deserve what you get".

You can't help people who are stupid, do not listen, or don't want help.

Schuyler Colfax · Post by **Schuyler Colfax** » 2008-02-18 02:45pm

She did stop seeing him, didn't you see the ex-boyfriend part?

This striked me more as one of those "if I can't have you, no one can" things.

Spin Echo · Post by **Spin Echo** » 2008-02-18 02:46pm

Bubble Boy wrote:What pisses me off about the article is how "everyone was noticing the signs".

That's wonderful...but instead of just noticing, perhaps they could've fucking tried doing something about it?

Start with something simple, like I dunno, telling the girl in question to stop seeing the fucker?

I hate to say it, but this story is very similiar to female friends of mine (without the whole murder part) that have asshole boyfriends. Guys who treat them like shit, cheat on them, get physically abusive, and yet the women still crawl back to them the instant these guys half heartily say "sorry" or "I'll change".

I'm very protective of women myself, but at the same time, I have a very low tolerance for stupidity too. I've tried talking to them, laying it down that they need to stop seeing this guy. They nod, agree, and then end up seeing him anyway.

More than once I've washed my hands of the affair and quite simply put it "If you're that fucking stupid, you deserve what you get".

You can't help people who are stupid, do not listen, or don't want help.

Uhm. According to the article, she had broken up with him.

Singular Intellect · Post by **Singular Intellect** » 2008-02-18 02:51pm

Spin Echo wrote:Uhm. According to the article, she had broken up with him.

Ah, I misread that part. My bad.

Schuyler Colfax wrote:She did stop seeing him, didn't you see the ex-boyfriend part?

This striked me more as one of those "if I can't have you, no one can" things.

Still, I'd like to know what all the family and friends were doing about the situation, given 'everyone' knew what was happening and could 'see the signs'.

When 'everyone' knows about the problem but does nothing about it, I get rather suspicious.

General Zod · Post by **General Zod** » 2008-02-18 02:55pm

Bubble Boy wrote: Still, I'd like to know what all the family and friends were doing about the situation, given 'everyone' knew what was happening and could 'see the signs'.

When 'everyone' knows about the problem but does nothing about it, I get rather suspicious.

What could they have done? Tell the guy to back off when it's pretty clear he wasn't going to take no for an answer? The police clearly weren't going to do anything about it, though considering it's Florida I can't say I'm horribly shocked.

Enigma · Post by **Enigma** » 2008-02-18 03:02pm

I'd still put the blame on the cops too and a minuscule part of the blame on the girl in the sense that she should have still called the cops and be creative by saying something that would cause them to quickly head over to her place. But then again she probably just panicked and didn't think of it.

A good part of the blame should land on the officers so that if she had called that last time, they'd make good on that threat and try to arrest her but when arriving they'd find the truth and arrest the ex.

Most of the blame should be placed on her friends and family. If they knew, why not go to the police?

Singular Intellect · Post by **Singular Intellect** » 2008-02-18 03:09pm

General Zod wrote:
Bubble Boy wrote: Still, I'd like to know what all the family and friends were doing about the situation, given 'everyone' knew what was happening and could 'see the signs'.

When 'everyone' knows about the problem but does nothing about it, I get rather suspicious.
What could they have done? Tell the guy to back off when it's pretty clear he wasn't going to take no for an answer?

That's one option.

Family and friends should be able to manage time to keep her accompanied if the situation is that serious and they all know it (or so claimed).

Furthermore, perhaps someone else should've tried talking to the police instead of the police only hearing the complaints from one seventeen year old girl who can easily be confused as a drama queen. Perhaps one of the adult parents, both of them, or a couple of friends presenting the case to the police in a more serious fashion.

[quotes]
The police clearly weren't going to do anything about it, though considering it's Florida I can't say I'm horribly shocked.[/quote]

You ever read the story "The boy who cried wolf"? Something very similiar may have been happening here. The article specifically stated this girl had called the police a significant number of times previously.

Like I said, why didn't several friends or the parents present a case to the police, especially since they all claimed knowing about it?

General Zod · Post by **General Zod** » 2008-02-18 03:20pm

Bubble Boy wrote: Family and friends should be able to manage time to keep her accompanied if the situation is that serious and they all know it (or so claimed).

Because monitoring someone 24/7 is totally practical for low income families.

You ever read the story "The boy who cried wolf"? Something very similiar may have been happening here. The article specifically stated this girl had called the police a significant number of times previously.

All the police would be able to do is file a restraining order anyway. Even if they had one of those in place it wouldn't stop a determined psychopath (which this guy apparently was) without someone monitoring her all the time. . .which isn't really an option for a low income family.

Singular Intellect · Post by **Singular Intellect** » 2008-02-18 03:32pm

General Zod wrote:
Bubble Boy wrote: Family and friends should be able to manage time to keep her accompanied if the situation is that serious and they all know it (or so claimed).
Because monitoring someone 24/7 is totally practical for low income families.

Exactly, and the police have to deal with entire cities worth of people, so how is it practical for them to do so?

You ever read the story "The boy who cried wolf"? Something very similiar may have been happening here. The article specifically stated this girl had called the police a significant number of times previously.
All the police would be able to do is file a restraining order anyway. Even if they had one of those in place it wouldn't stop a determined psychopath (which this guy apparently was) without someone monitoring her all the time. . .which isn't really an option for a low income family.

It isn't an option for the police either. If someone is determined to get someone else, the police can't really do much about it. Even the stupidest person only needs to realize "I'll wait till the cops leave" or "Not be around when they are".

I know, having just dealt with a female friend having an ex boyfriend do exactly that. The police neither have the time or resources to monitor someone who 'might' or 'might not' be threatened by some psycho ex-boyfriend.

General Zod · Post by **General Zod** » 2008-02-18 03:37pm

Bubble Boy wrote:
Exactly, and the police have to deal with entire cities worth of people, so how is it practical for them to do so?

Where did I say that they should have monitored her again? Oh wait, I didn't. However, arresting the boyfriend would have solved the problem nicely.

Singular Intellect · Post by **Singular Intellect** » 2008-02-18 03:42pm

General Zod wrote:
Bubble Boy wrote:
Exactly, and the police have to deal with entire cities worth of people, so how is it practical for them to do so?
Where did I say that they should have monitored her again? Oh wait, I didn't. However, arresting the boyfriend would have solved the problem nicely.

Great idea, except for that whole "innocent until proven guilty" thing.

Presumeably you're experienced enough to know that trying to get a boyfriend arrested because he pissed of his girlfriend isn't exactly a new idea?

He'd literally have to be caught in the act to be proven guilty of what others are actually saying about him.

General Zod · Post by **General Zod** » 2008-02-18 03:50pm

Bubble Boy wrote: Great idea, except for that whole "innocent until proven guilty" thing.

Presumeably you're experienced enough to know that trying to get a boyfriend arrested because he pissed of his girlfriend isn't exactly a new idea?

He'd literally have to be caught in the act to be proven guilty of what others are actually saying about him.

Then I don't see why you're faulting the family for not doing anything. The fact that nothing could have been done pretty much makes your bitching earlier utterly pointless.

Singular Intellect · Post by **Singular Intellect** » 2008-02-18 03:54pm

General Zod wrote:
Bubble Boy wrote: Great idea, except for that whole "innocent until proven guilty" thing.

Presumeably you're experienced enough to know that trying to get a boyfriend arrested because he pissed of his girlfriend isn't exactly a new idea?

He'd literally have to be caught in the act to be proven guilty of what others are actually saying about him.
Then I don't see why you're faulting the family for not doing anything. The fact that nothing could have been done pretty much makes your bitching earlier utterly pointless.

I'm still waiting to hear what friends and family did try to do.

Especially since the article points out the girl called police multiple times, but not a single mention of any concerned parties doing so.

In the absence of evidence, I'm assuming absence of effort on their part.

General Zod · Post by **General Zod** » 2008-02-18 04:06pm

Bubble Boy wrote:
In the absence of evidence, I'm assuming absence of effort on their part.

Since there isn't enough evidence either way, assuming one way or the other is stupid. Innocent until proven guilty remember?

Singular Intellect · Post by **Singular Intellect** » 2008-02-18 04:12pm

General Zod wrote:
Bubble Boy wrote:
In the absence of evidence, I'm assuming absence of effort on their part.
Since there isn't enough evidence either way, assuming one way or the other is stupid.

Ah, yes, the typical fundie attitude "You can't prove it either way!".

Innocent until proven guilty remember?

And what the fuck has that got to do with the fact I've seen no evidence friends and family did anything about the situation? I've already pointed out the article made absolutely no mention of any concerned parties even calling the police themselves, especially since they all 'saw the signs'.

General Zod · Post by **General Zod** » 2008-02-18 04:19pm

Bubble Boy wrote: Ah, yes, the typical fundie attitude "You can't prove it either way!".

Because clearly one article is an absolute source on what they did or didn't do and always presents all of the facts involved.

Singular Intellect · Post by **Singular Intellect** » 2008-02-18 04:33pm

General Zod wrote:
Bubble Boy wrote: Ah, yes, the typical fundie attitude "You can't prove it either way!".
Because clearly one article is an absolute source on what they did or didn't do and always presents all of the facts involved.

Just more fundie logic, "We don't know everything!".

What part of 'assume the negative till evidence is presented' do you not understand?

Spin Echo · Post by **Spin Echo** » 2008-02-18 04:40pm

Bubble Boy wrote:
General Zod wrote:
Bubble Boy wrote: Ah, yes, the typical fundie attitude "You can't prove it either way!".
Because clearly one article is an absolute source on what they did or didn't do and always presents all of the facts involved.
Just more fundie logic, "We don't know everything!". What part of 'assume the negative till evidence is presented' do you not understand?

It's a paragraph article . Trying to speculate on what was or wasn't done when you have so little information to work with is ridiculous.

Spin Echo · Post by **Spin Echo** » 2008-02-18 04:44pm

Oh look, an articlestating her family reported him twice to police.

A murder/suicide in Deland seems to be the result of an abusive ex-boyfriend.

Natasha Hall, 17, was shot and killed by Clayton Kunfer, 19, who then shot and killed himself.

"Just knowing that she’s gone, there is nothing more we can do," Julia Castillo, a friend of Hall's, said.

Hall's friends and family said Kunfer had been stalking Hall since she broke up with him in November.

Kunfer updated his Myspace page on Friday with messages that Hall's friends said were warnings of Kunfer's desperation.

Michelle Karpowicz was with Hall Friday evening when Kunfer ambushed them on Hall's front porch.

"I was like, 'Natasha, Natasha, he has a gun, Natasha,' and she turned around, she had no time to say anything," Karpowicz said. "He was already up the stairs. All he did was he pointed the gun at her."

Karpowicz said Kunfer then threatened to shoot her, but she ran away. Soon after, Kunfer shot himself.

Hall's family said they reported Kunfer to police twice for threatening Hall. The Volusia County state attorney's office confirmed that a complaint was filed against Kunfer 12 days ago but they did not release any other details.
"He would tell her that he would kill her if she talked to any other guy," Karpowicz said.

Hall was a junior at Deland High School. She met Kunfer there last spring just before he graduated. Hall's family said she broke up with Kunfer because of his abusive behavior.

General Zod · Post by **General Zod** » 2008-02-18 04:45pm

Bubble Boy wrote: Just more fundie logic, "We don't know everything!". What part of 'assume the negative till evidence is presented' do you not understand?

Stop being a fucking idiot. Newspapers, especially small ones, rarely report all of the facts involved so jumping to any conclusions and saying without corroborating stories is stupid. They might not have done anything, but without it being mentioned you're being as retarded as you're accusing me of being by jumping to conclusions. Hint: fundies also accept only one source at face value.

Schuyler Colfax · Post by **Schuyler Colfax** » 2008-02-18 04:46pm

Schuyler Colfax wrote:I see what you mean. I didn't really look at like that before.

Well I'm taking that statement back.

Flagg · Post by **Flagg** » 2008-02-18 10:07pm

Shocking that this happened in Deland, FL. Just a note, this is where the "XBox murders took place several years ago. You know, where 3 or 4 guys broke into a house and killed everyone inside with baseball bats because one of the people in the house allegedly stole an XBox. This is also where that grandmother and her grandson mysteriously disappeared and were never found.