Bush to veto bill banning waterboarding

The Spartan · Post by **The Spartan** » 2008-03-07 08:18pm

Yahoo News wrote: Bush to veto bill banning waterboarding

59 minutes ago

The White House says President Bush will veto legislation on Saturday that would have barred the CIA from using waterboarding — a technique that simulates drowning — and other harsh interrogation methods on terror suspects.

Bush has said the bill would harm the government's ability to prevent future attacks. Supporters of the legislation argue that it preserves the United States' right to collect critical intelligence while boosting the country's moral standing abroad.

"The bill would take away one of the most valuable tools on the war on terror, the CIA program to detain and question key terrorist leaders and operatives," deputy White House press secretary Tony Fratto said Friday.

The bill would restrict the CIA to using only the 19 interrogation techniques listed in the Army field manual.

The legislation would bar the CIA from using waterboarding, sensory deprivation or other coercive methods to break a prisoner who refuses to answer questions. Those practices were banned by the military in 2006, but the president wants the harsh interrogation methods to be a part of the CIA's toolbox.

Backers of the legislation, which cleared the House in December and won Senate approval last month, say the interrogation methods used by the military are sufficient.

"President Bush's veto will be one of the most shameful acts of his presidency," Sen. Edward Kennedy, D-Mass., said in a statement Friday. "Unless Congress overrides the veto, it will go down in history as a flagrant insult to the rule of law and a serious stain on the good name of America in the eyes of the world."

He noted that the Army field manual contends that harsh interrogation is a "poor technique that yields unreliable results, may damage subsequent collection efforts, and can induce the source to say what he thinks the (interrogator) wants to hear."

Can't say I'm surprised. I normally don't wish time to speed up on this sort of scale, but January can not come fast enough.

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2008-03-07 08:47pm

yes, Bush to become the first Ex-president of the United States to live out his "retirement" years in some no-extradition country like he was just another deposed 3rd world dictator. Unfortunatly he seems hell bent in turning the USA into just another 3rd world country.....

Wonder how long before the Bible Belt goes "Hotel Rwanda" on those they don't agree with....

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2008-03-07 09:49pm

The Yosemite Bear wrote:yes, Bush to become the first Ex-president of the United States to live out his "retirement" years in some no-extradition country like he was just another deposed 3rd world dictator. Unfortunatly he seems hell bent in turning the USA into just another 3rd world country.....

Wonder how long before the Bible Belt goes "Hotel Rwanda" on those they don't agree with....

Nothing would make me happier than Bush and Co being snatched up on Treason charges the day after he's out of office. But the Spinless'Ocrats would never do it, thinking it would cause a civil war or some other bit of nutty-ness rather than what would acutely happen, celebrations in the streets.

Post by **Simplicius** » 2008-03-07 10:24pm

I'd like to see those two tried as well, but even if it does happen it won't be for treason.

Article III, Section 3 wrote: Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.

Patrick Degan · Post by **Patrick Degan** » 2008-03-07 11:03pm

The whole question of the legality of waterboarding has always been moot. There is case law, in the form of the Tokyo War Crimes Trials, in which several Japanese officers were convicted on charges of torturing Allied prisoners and waterboarding was one of the techniques employed and so defined as torture by the court. In point of fact, precedent had already been established when U.S. soldiers were convicted of using the "water cure" against Filipino guerillas in our occupation of that archipelago following the Spanish-American War.

Waterboarding is already illegal and has been since the early 1900s with trial precedent in support. So this whole argument and the execrable position on it taken by the Maladministration is, has been, and always will be, bullshit. Chimpus Caesar is, quite plainly, a war criminal.

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2008-03-07 11:15pm

Simplicius wrote:I'd like to see those two tried as well, but even if it does happen it won't be for treason.

War Crimes, nothing would amuse me even more than to get him sentance to hard time in prison for war crimes.

wjs7744 · Post by **wjs7744** » 2008-03-07 11:32pm

Seriously, he must be one of the most hated men in the world by now. And he's still doing things like this!

irishmick79 · Post by **irishmick79** » 2008-03-08 02:00am

Compassionate Conservatism strikes again!

Well, I guess it's a little compassionate to the democrats, since vetoing an anti-waterboarding measure is giving them some nice cannon fodder for the campaign trail.

Jadeite · Post by **Jadeite** » 2008-03-08 03:00am

wjs7744 wrote:Seriously, he must be one of the most hated men in the world by now. And he's still doing things like this!

Although at this point, nothing he could do would improve his reputation, so from his point of view, providing he even cared, why bother trying?

ArmorPierce · Post by **ArmorPierce** » 2008-03-08 12:24pm

It's funny how during his tenure as president he has achieved both ends of the spectrum. He goes down in history as being both the highest approved and lowest approved president in history.

NoXion · Post by **NoXion** » 2008-03-08 12:50pm

Honestly, why bother having things like Congress if any legislation they can come up with can be vetoed by the President? The current set-up seems functionally indistinguishable from rule by decree.

darthbob88 · Post by **darthbob88** » 2008-03-08 01:03pm

NoXion wrote:Honestly, why bother having things like Congress if any legislation they can come up with can be vetoed by the President? The current set-up seems functionally indistinguishable from rule by decree.

Because they can also overrule his veto; in this case, if they can get a 2/3(?) majority, it won't matter what he says.

I must agree, though. I'm beginning to wonder if the US actually replaced monarchy as our system of government.

hongi · Post by **hongi** » 2008-03-09 09:29am

From NPR.

During the Spanish-American War, a U.S. soldier, Major Edwin Glenn, was suspended from command for one month and fined $50 for using "the water cure." In his review, the Army judge advocate said the charges constituted "resort to torture with a view to extort a confession." He recommended disapproval because "the United States cannot afford to sanction the addition of torture."

Yet President Theodore Roosevelt defended the practice. "The enlisted men began to use the old Filipino method: the water cure," he wrote in a 1902 letter. "Nobody was seriously damaged."

In the war crimes tribunals that followed Japan's defeat in World War II, the issue of waterboarding was sometimes raised. In 1947, the U.S. charged a Japanese officer, Yukio Asano, with war crimes for waterboarding a U.S. civilian. Asano was sentenced to 15 years of hard labor.

On Jan. 21, 1968, The Washington Post ran a front-page photo of a U.S. soldier supervising the waterboarding of a captured North Vietnamese soldier. The caption said the technique induced "a flooding sense of suffocation and drowning, meant to make him talk." The picture led to an Army investigation and, two months later, the court martial of the soldier.

Cases of waterboarding have occurred on U.S. soil, as well. In 1983, Texas Sheriff James Parker was charged, along with three of his deputies, for handcuffing prisoners to chairs, placing towels over their faces, and pouring water on the cloth until they gave what the officers considered to be confessions. The sheriff and his deputies were all convicted and sentenced to four years in prison.

Seriously, from an outside perspective, Bush seems to be raving mad. How is this morally justifiable?

Darth Onasi · Post by **Darth Onasi** » 2008-03-09 11:29am

America touts itself as the leading free nation of the world and yet it's leader can so casually advocate torture?
Did someone forget to tell bush he's President of the United States, not the Great Leader of North Korea?
If I had my way he'd be busted down just for that, it's despicable.

Patrick Degan · Post by **Patrick Degan** » 2008-03-09 05:56pm

Darth Onasi wrote:America touts itself as the leading free nation of the world and yet it's leader can so casually advocate torture?
Did someone forget to tell bush he's President of the United States, not the Great Leader of North Korea?
If I had my way he'd be busted down just for that, it's despicable.

You forget, this is the talking chimp who once joked that things would go a lot easier if this was a dictatorship —as long as he got to be the dictator.

Poor chimp had to settle for Decider instead.

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2008-03-09 08:15pm

I wonder, some appologist for the spineless opposition party said it was "Up to the american people to SUE Bush+Cheney", does anyone know on what grounds/damages we should consider?

besides breach of contract (oath of office, preserve and protect the constitution.) and then ask for all back pay to be distrubited to every american citizen of voting age+plus damages?

The Spartan · Post by **The Spartan** » 2008-03-09 08:20pm

Darth Onasi wrote:America touts itself as the leading free nation of the world and yet it's leader can so casually advocate torture?
Did someone forget to tell bush he's President of the United States, not the Great Leader of North Korea?
If I had my way he'd be busted down just for that, it's despicable.

The problem is that the right has managed to convince people that anything we do to protect America and maintain it's illusion as the most FREE country on the planet is GOOD.

But if someone else does one of these things against us, they are BAD.