Bush calls Obama an "appeaser"

[Darth Wong]

Yup, it's time to trot out the corpse of Chamberlain again.

Link

Bush suggests Obama wants 'appeasement' of terrorists

JERUSALEM (CNN) – President Bush launched a sharp but veiled attack Thursday on Sen. Barack Obama and other Democrats, suggesting they favor "appeasement" of terrorists in the same way some Western leaders appeased Hitler in the run-up to World War II.

The president did not name Obama or any other Democrat, but White House aides privately acknowledged the remarks were aimed at the presidential candidate and others in his party. Former President Jimmy Carter has called for talks with Hamas.

"Some seem to believe we should negotiate with terrorists and radicals, as if some ingenious argument will persuade them they have been wrong all along," Bush said at Israel's 60th anniversary celebration in Jerusalem.

"We have heard this foolish delusion before," Bush said in remarks to Israel's parliament, the Knesset. "As Nazi tanks crossed into Poland in 1939, an American senator declared: 'Lord, if only I could have talked to Hitler, all of this might have been avoided.' We have an obligation to call this what it is — the false comfort of appeasement, which has been repeatedly discredited by history."

The remarks seemed to be a not-so-subtle attempt to continue to raise doubts about Obama with Jewish Americans. Those doubts were earlier stoked by Sen. John McCain, the presumptive Republican nominee in the 2008 presidential election, when he recently charged that Obama is the favored candidate of the terror group Hamas.

Obama last week called the Hamas allegation a "smear" and lashed out Thursday at Bush's speech in Israel.

"It is sad that President Bush would use a speech to the Knesset on the 60th anniversary of Israel's independence to launch a false political attack," Obama said in a statement released to CNN by his campaign. "It is time to turn the page on eight years of policies that have strengthened Iran and failed to secure America or our ally Israel…."

"George Bush knows that I have never supported engagement with terrorists, and the president's extraordinary politicization of foreign policy and the politics of fear do nothing to secure the American people or our stalwart ally Israel," Obama's statement said.

Obama favors "tough, direct presidential diplomacy with Iran without preconditions," according to his Web site, "and is willing to meet with the leaders of all nations, friend and foe." He does not favor talks with Hamas, which he has called a terrorist organization.

The Bush administration held three rounds of discussions with Iran about security in Iraq last year, including two at the ambassadorial level, and Defense Secretary Robert Gates Wednesday said Washington needed to "figure out a way to develop some leverage … and then sit down and talk with" Iran.

Bush largely focused his speech in Jerusalem on highlighting the American-Israeli partnership. "The alliance between our governments is unbreakable, yet the source of our friendship runs deeper than any treaty," he said.

Bush said the United States and Israel are locked in an ideological struggle with radicals in the Middle East, using the speech to tie al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden to the terror groups Hamas and Hezbollah. "That is why the founding charter of Hamas calls for the 'elimination' of Israel," said Bush. "That is why the followers of Hezbollah chant 'Death to Israel, Death to America!' That is why Osama bin Laden teaches that 'the killing of Jews and Americans is one of the biggest duties.' And that is why the president of Iran dreams of returning the Middle East to the Middle Ages and calls for Israel to be wiped off the map."

Bush then made his transition to Obama and other Democrats without naming names, raising the specter of the Holocaust to make his point.

"There are good and decent people who cannot fathom the darkness in these men and try to explain their words away," said Bush. "This is natural. But it is deadly wrong.

"As witnesses to evil in the past, we carry a solemn responsibility to take these words seriously. Jews and Americans have seen the consequences of disregarding the words of leaders who espouse hatred. And that is a mistake the world must not repeat in the 21st century," the president said.

As if Bush has any right to talk about repeating mistakes. He's the guy who brought Vietnam to a new generation. Goddammit, when will these fucking people stop trying to force every foreign-affairs situation into the mould of WW2?

[Illuminatus Primus]

Its such bullshit too, if you ask the State Department what we're doing with uhm, countless warlords in Afghanistan and Iraq, what we do with Saudi Arabia and Iran - its certainly not anti-Nazi total war. No, its diplomacy. Ineffective, hypocritical diplomacy, but diplomacy. Churchill-humping by this Administration, like everything else, is an exercise in political convenience, photo-op imagery, and ego-stroking, not even sincere ideology.

[Patrick Degan]

It's the only script these people have got.

[Illuminatus Primus]

I mean, the gall of this retard, whose own Administration just secured the surge for his party's political vitality by bribing the insurgents not to fight us. Yeah, the principled stand does not include talking to them, but is certainly includes creating a market for not killing Americans.

[Gandalf]

Is anyone even listening to Bush anymore? I'd think all eyes would have turned from Mr 28% to John McCain. On my local news, a McCain speech seems to get better coverage than a Bush speech.

I can just imagine GWB standing in the White House front yard shouting "Look at me! I'm still relevant!".

Goddammit, when will these fucking people stop trying to force every foreign-affairs situation into the mould of WW2?

When it stops working.

[Kanastrous]

Alas there's a segment of Israel-above-everything types (like some of my relatives) who are already convinced that Obama is really Bin Laden in blackface, or something, and keep sending me these clever-clever emails to that basic effect...

...these people are so fucking deluded that they have convinced themselves that American Christian Zionists are their best pals and natural allies.

Really, I wish that people whose primary loyalty is to Israel - including my relatives - would just move there, where their loyalty would be both better appreciated, and more appropriate.

[Lusankya]

What exactly is wrong with at least having some kind of communication with these organisations anyway, so long as it's meaningful communication? I mean, if communication brought everyone to the conclusion that the US could buy relative peace in a region for 20 goats, paved roads, a school and a hospital, then that's preferable to continued hostilities.

I mean, there are some groups that would never negotiate on a meaningful level with the US, but for those that do, even if no agreement can be reached, then some kind of dialogue would at least leave the US (hopefully) with a better understanding of their motives, which will help the US in the future.

[Coyote]

Really, I wish that people whose primary loyalty is to Israel - including my relatives - would just move there, where their loyalty would be both better appreciated, and more appropriate.

American Jews have vowed to fight to the last Israeli!

[Illuminatus Primus]

Heh, is that how you more liberal Isrealis look at bellicose foreign Jews?

[The Spartan]

Isn't it Captain Chucklefuck's administration that started dealing with North Korea? Clearly, tWat is an appeaser.

Jackass. Of course, no one will bring that up and every asshole conservitard will crow on and on about how BHO will ruin this country and it will be a disaster, etc.

I fucking hate politics.

[Stuart Mackey]

It's the only script these people have got.

I am not sure if its a display of gross historical ignorance or a gullible populace that will buy into anything if couched in the right way.

[Knife]

What exactly is wrong with at least having some kind of communication with these organisations anyway, so long as it's meaningful communication? I mean, if communication brought everyone to the conclusion that the US could buy relative peace in a region for 20 goats, paved roads, a school and a hospital, then that's preferable to continued hostilities.

I mean, there are some groups that would never negotiate on a meaningful level with the US, but for those that do, even if no agreement can be reached, then some kind of dialogue would at least leave the US (hopefully) with a better understanding of their motives, which will help the US in the future.

Because there is a slight chance that if we talk to them, they'll invade Poland.

[Gil Hamilton]

As if Bush has any right to talk about repeating mistakes. He's the guy who brought Vietnam to a new generation. Goddammit, when will these fucking people stop trying to force every foreign-affairs situation into the mould of WW2?

I'd say it's because WW2 has become a romantic fantasy for military enthusiasts. It was the last good, where righteous all American boys stormed beaches and fought long battles as Bands of Brothers against an unambiguously bad set of enemies, while a whole nation full of America's sweethearts went to work in factors and waited for their boys to come home.

It was also the last time the United States was politically able to incinerate entire cities full of those unambiguously bad people, shove loyal Americans who happened to be of the same race as those bad people into camps, and people stoically nodded and said that is must be so. I think war enthusiasts would love to have the political climate that allowed for strategic bombing back, whether or not strategic bombing is even necessary in these pissant bush wars as it was in World War 2. In other words, it's RAH RAH AMERICA FUCK YEAH BOMB STRAIGHT TO HELL redneck nonsense.

[Terralthra]

As if Bush has any right to talk about repeating mistakes. He's the guy who brought Vietnam to a new generation. Goddammit, when will these fucking people stop trying to force every foreign-affairs situation into the mould of WW2?

To quote:

So why does the US have such a fascination about a time that everyone else would rather just forget about and move on? Well, probably because that was the last war in which they did any good, when they had a clear win over an unambiguous evil villain who posed a genuine threat, rather than any of these wishy-washy recent wars, where they run in, stomp all over a developing nation and run out again declaring victory around the time the population have to start eating their own dead.

source

[Patrick Degan]

It also "helps" that the United States didn't have a single bomb dropped on it during the war. Makes romanticising it a whole lot easier.

[The Original Nex]

Bush has been projecting his own family insecurity over his grandfather, Prescott Bush's dealings with the Nazis in the late '30s. The Bush clan has more connections with the Nazi appeasers than Obama ever did or will.

[Terralthra]

It also "helps" that the United States didn't have a single bomb dropped on it during the war. Makes romanticising it a whole lot easier.

Um...you sure about that?

[FSTargetDrone]

It also "helps" that the United States didn't have a single bomb dropped on it during the war. Makes romanticising it a whole lot easier.

Um...you sure about that?

The US wasn't overtly in the war until Pearl Harbor was bombed. The point is, the continental USA wasn't attacked (other than some minor shelling by Japanese subs and some balloon bombs that managed to use the jet stream to set some fires in the northwest, I believe) during the course of the war. Certainly nothing approaching the scale of bombing seen in Europe and Asia.

[Ender]

It also "helps" that the United States didn't have a single bomb dropped on it during the war.

I take it Pearl Harbor doesn't count under the technicality that Hawaii wasn't a state yet?

EDIT: stupid pronouns

[Terralthra]

I take it Pearl Harbor doesn't count under the technicality that Hawaii wasn't a state yet?

Eh, it was a US territory, and had been for fifty years. Questions about the legality of the annexation, the statehood of Hawaii, etc., are all just moving goalposts around. The US was bombed during World War II. It wasn't bombed nearly as much as any of the other countries which had bombs dropped on them.

[FSTargetDrone]

Well, and the Aleutian Islands Campaign. Also not a state. Neither until 1959, Alaska and Hawaii.

Anyway, getting back to Obama, he's responded:

Page last updated at 15:48 GMT, Thursday, 15 May 2008 16:48 UK

Obama attacks Bush over Iran barb

Barack Obama has accused George W Bush of attacking him after the US president compared those in favour of talking to terrorists to Nazi appeasers.

The White House has denied that the remarks - from a speech to the Israeli parliament - were aimed at Mr Obama.

Mr Obama, who is the frontrunner to become the Democrats' presidential nominee, has argued in favour of negotiating with the Iranian regime.

But he has ruled out talking to militant organisations like Hamas.

'False comfort'

"Some seem to believe that we should negotiate with the terrorists and radicals," said Mr Bush in his speech.

"We have heard this foolish delusion before. As Nazi tanks crossed into Poland in 1939, an American senator declared: 'Lord, if I could only have talked to Hitler, all this might have been avoided.' We have an obligation to call this what it is - the false comfort of appeasement."

Mr Obama responded in a statement:

"It is sad that President Bush would use a speech to the Knesset on the 60th anniversary of Israel's independence to launch a false political attack. George Bush knows that I have never supported engagement with terrorists."

But White House spokeswoman Dana Perino rejected Mr Obama's interpretation of the president's remarks, saying "there are many who have suggested these types of negotiations with people that the president... thinks that we should not talk to".

"I understand when you're running for office you sometimes think the world revolves around you," she added.

"That is not always true. And it is not true in this case."

The BBC's James Coomarasamy in Washington says the row indicates that Republicans have identified Senator Obama's Middle East policy and his perceived weakness amongst Jewish voters as a key point of attack, should he, as many expect, be Republican John McCain's opponent in the November election.

Mr Obama raised eyebrows last year when he first stated his support for direct negotiations without preconditions with the controversial Iranian President, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.

His position has been criticised, not only by John McCain, but also by Mr Obama's rival for the Democratic nomination, Hillary Clinton.

[Patrick Degan]

It also "helps" that the United States didn't have a single bomb dropped on it during the war.

I take it Pearl Harbor doesn't count under the technicality that Hawaii wasn't a state yet?

EDIT: stupid pronouns

Then just a territory, of course. And one over 2000 miles away from the west coast as well, so America at large didn't suffer the horrors of London, Coventry, Rotterdam, Kiev, Minsk, or Lenningrad upon any of our cities. Even the Pearl Harbour bombing left the city of Honolulu largely untouched, so really we got through the war without a scratch on the homefront, unlike our allies who were right on the front line, so to speak.

[Einhander Sn0m4n]

Obama has returned fire.

Obama says Bush falsely accuses him of appeasement

By LIZ SIDOTI – 2 hours ago

WASHINGTON (AP) — Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama accused President Bush on Thursday of launching a "false political attack" with a comment about appeasing terrorists and radicals.

The Illinois senator interpreted the remark as a slam against him but the White House denied that Bush's words were in any way directed at Obama, who has said as president he would be willing to personally meet with Iran's leaders and those of other regimes the United States has deemed rogue.

In a speech to Israel's Knesset, Bush said: "Some seem to believe that we should negotiate with the terrorists and radicals, as if some ingenious argument will persuade them they have been wrong all along.

"We have heard this foolish delusion before. As Nazi tanks crossed into Poland in 1939, an American senator declared: 'Lord, if I could only have talked to Hitler, all this might have been avoided.' We have an obligation to call this what it is — the false comfort of appeasement, which has been repeatedly discredited by history."

Obama responded with a statement, seizing on Bush's remarks even as it was unclear to whom the president was referring.

"It is sad that President Bush would use a speech to the Knesset on the 60th anniversary of Israel's independence to launch a false political attack," Obama said in the statement his aides distributed. "George Bush knows that I have never supported engagement with terrorists, and the president's extraordinary politicization of foreign policy and the politics of fear do nothing to secure the American people or our stalwart ally Israel."

The White House said Bush's comment wasn't a reference to Obama.

"It is not," press secretary Dana Perino told reporters in Israel. "I would think that all of you who cover these issues and have for a long time have known that there are many who have suggested these types of negotiations with people that the president, President Bush, thinks that we should not talk to. I understand when you're running for office you sometimes think the world revolves around you. That is not always true. And it is not true in this case."

The debate over whether the president should directly negotiate with rogue leaders has been one of the most prominent issue differences in the race for the Democratic nomination. Obama says he would meet with heads of state in places like Cuba, Iran and North Korea. Rival Hillary Rodham Clinton says those meetings could be used for propaganda and her first response will be outreach through other diplomatic channels.

As Obama inches closer to clinching the Democratic nomination, he's spent far more time assailing Republicans and the GOP's nominee-in-waiting, John McCain, than he has going after Clinton. By assailing Bush, Obama sent a signal that he's strong enough to take on the sitting president and the incumbent party — and counter the notion fueled by Clinton that she would be the stronger Democratic general election candidate.

Bush, for his part, mostly refrained from directly injecting himself into the presidential race through the Republican primary. When McCain clinched the nomination in March, however, the two appeared together in the White House Rose Garden. Since then, he has talked up McCain frequently.

When it comes to the Democratic race, the president typically avoids naming names but he has publicly disagreed with the positions of the Democratic front-runners.

He has, for example, strongly disagreed with Obama's expressed willingness to meet the leaders of U.S. adversaries such as Cuba and Iran. And, McCain has criticized Obama directly and repeatedly for saying that he would meet with Cuba's leader, Raul Castro, without preconditions.

Obama, go further on this. Call a spade a spade and tell the world you know Bush is actively trying to start World War III, not protect the security of America and Israel. Tell him and the other Likudnik Neocons to stop using American blood, tears, and treasure as capital to be monetized through its destruction under cover of accusations of anti-Semitism. We're seeing through the lies now, and we are waking up to the patterns that whatever the Bushies/Neocons/Likudniks say, the opposite is true.

Then you must impeach the motherfuckers for war crimes, treason, and crimes against the Constitution and Humanity at large.

[FSTargetDrone]

Then just a territory, of course. And one over 2000 miles away from the west coast as well, so America at large didn't suffer the horrors of London, Coventry, Rotterdam, Kiev, Minsk, or Lenningrad upon any of our cities. Even the Pearl Harbour bombing left the city of Honolulu largely untouched, so really we got through the war without a scratch on the homefront, unlike our allies who were right on the front line, so to speak.

As far as is known, only 6 civilians died as the result of enemy attacks on the Continental USA during WW2:

On May 5, 1945, Reverend Archie Mitchell of the Bly Christian & Missionary Alliance Church took his expectant wife and 5 Sunday school children on fishing trip and picnic. Finding the main road blocked by equipment, he pulled off to a spot where the creek was accessible. As he got the food from the car he heard one of the children say "Look what I found!". As his wife and the children ran to see what was found, there was an explosion. The 5 children and Mrs. Mitchell were killed instantly.

What the children had found was the remains of balloon bomb. Thousands of these balloons were launched from Honshu, Japan during a 5 month period that ended in April 1945. The hydrogen-filled paper balloons were 33 feet in diameter and carried 5 bombs - 4 incendiaries and one antipersonnel high explosive. The balloons included mechanisms for controlling altitude so it could be carried by the jet stream from Japan to North America in 3 days. More than 350 balloons were documented as having reached the continent but except for these deaths near Gearhart Mountain, they caused little damage.

Archie Mitchell remarried and became a missionary to Vietnam. In May of 1962 he was abducted by Viet Cong and was never seen again.

The area surrounding the Mitchell Monument was donated to the Fremont National Forest by the Weyerhaeuser Corporation in 1998.

Aside from the personal tragedy to that family, it is so insignificant as to be nothing more than a historical curiosity when compared to all the deaths suffered elsewhere in the world by civilians whose homes were caught up in enemy bombing. Yes, it's true, the USA, both its territories and continental states, was actually attacked during the course of the war, but as you say, aside from those members of the US military who went into action, hardly anyone at home suffered physical injuries.

As an aside:

When the military arrived, they found four incendiary bombs, delivered by the same balloon, and deactivated them. The FBI and the military already knew about the airborne bombs, but they kept this information from the general public, informing only school principals, police, clergy, and other authorities. The coroner listed the cause of death as “an explosion from an undetermined source.”

Of the thousands of balloon bombs the Japanese launched into the river of air, only several hundred have been found. After the war, Sakyo Adachi, the Japanese meteorologist who had advocated balloon warfare, visited the Mitchell Recreation area, left a wreath on the monument there, and expressed his condolences.

Here's an interesting list on Wikipedia about different enemy actions against North America during the war.

[Oni Koneko Damien]

On topic...

You know, it was more of a humourous hyperbole on my part. But now, I swear, Shrubbie has to be masturbating furiously to WW2 stock footage at night, what else explains this fetish/obsession of his?