McCain: It's all Obama's fault I attack him!

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McCain: It's all Obama's fault I attack him!

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The first question I asked John McCain and then Barack Obama was: How do you feel about the tone and direction of the campaign so far?

No surprise. Both men pronounced themselves thoroughly frustrated by the personal bitterness and negativism they have seen in the two months since they learned they would be running against each other.

"I'm very sorry about it," McCain said in a Saturday interview at his Arlington headquarters. "I think we could have avoided at least some of this if we had agreed to do the town hall meetings" together, as he had suggested, during the summer months.

Obama, in a phone interview yesterday from Elkhart, Ind., argued that "the classic tit-for-tat campaigning" of recent weeks "is part of the politics of the past that we have to move beyond." Ironically, having turned down McCain's proposal for weekly joint town halls, Obama argued that the formal debates, starting in late September, may refocus the campaign on real issues.

On June 4, McCain proposed 10 town-hall-style debates before screened audiences of uncommitted independent voters across the country. Obama countered by offering two such sessions this summer, one on Independence Day and one in August, and the idea died. Three days ago, Obama said he would participate only in the three debates sponsored by the Commission on Presidential Debates, the first of which is scheduled for Sept. 26.

Since the idea of joint town meetings was scrapped, the campaign has featured tough and often negative ads and speeches. They culminated last week in an exchange in which Obama said that McCain and his supporters were calling attention to the Democrat's unusual name and the fact that "he doesn't look like all those other presidents on those dollar bills."

The McCain campaign in turn accused Obama of playing "the race card."

In the interviews, both candidates expressed indignation at what was being said about them. "I'm not going to be smeared," McCain declared. "I went through that once, and I'm not going to do it again. . . . If anybody says I'm a racist . . . I'm not going to stand for that."

Obama insisted that he had never made such an accusation. And he condemned McCain for suggesting that "I would rather lose a war to win a political campaign. That is patently offensive. When his campaign ran an ad suggesting that I had refused to visit wounded troops because I couldn't have TV cameras with me, reporters immediately said that was patently false. . . . I'm not going to sit back and let my record be distorted."

When I asked Obama how he thought the campaign could be returned to the issues, he said he hoped that the two conventions would "offer each party a chance to showcase its best ideas" and that the three scheduled presidential debates then "will allow people to see Senator McCain and myself interact in a way that keeps people more honest because you're standing there face to face."

I told Obama that McCain made exactly that point in arguing for the early joint appearances. What McCain actually said was: "When you have to stand on a stage with your opponent, as I've done in other campaigns, you obviously have a tendency to improve the relationship. . . . When you have to spend time with somebody, I think it changes the equation."

I asked Obama if he had any regrets about turning down McCain's early June invitation to start the joint appearances back then. He said, "I think the notion that somehow as a consequence of not having joint appearances, Senator McCain felt obliged to suggest that I'd rather lose a war to win a campaign doesn't automatically follow. I think we each have control over ourselves and our campaigns, and we have to take responsibility for that."

He also noted, "We responded with an offer of doing five debates, rather than the traditional three, which the McCain campaign declined.

"My general point," Obama continued, "is that both the conventions and the debates will offer formats for Senator McCain and myself to make our best case to the American people at a time when the American people will be paying attention.

"And ultimately, the best corrective to overly negative campaigns are the American people, who are not interested in a lot of bickering but are interested in who's got the best answers for the country."

I think everybody would agree with that last point.
Broder is always nattering on like this; excusing any Republican foible and happily agreeing that the blame is on the Dem. If only the Dems would be good, neutered dogs like in 2003 and 2004, bipartisanship would have flourished! No more ugly politics. Indeed, today, he recounted two moments that he said were the only 'negative incidents' between the two, both from Obama not doing what McCain wanted and McCain getting hives at the thought.

All this highlights how the American political media has gone completely off the deep end. McCain is literally saying 'It's your fault I hit you', and it's treated as reasonable.
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Post by Illuminatus Primus »

"Ironically, having turned down town-hall meetings" - what an asshole. Its not like those weren't entirely biased agitprop for McCain. Afterall, let's have some town halls in Missouri and good old hometown Alabama, how about Oklahoma? They know no shame.
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Post by Glocksman »

Illuminatus Primus wrote:"Ironically, having turned down town-hall meetings" - what an asshole. Its not like those weren't entirely biased agitprop for McCain. Afterall, let's have some town halls in Missouri and good old hometown Alabama, how about Oklahoma? They know no shame.
Indeed.
Fox news, of all outlets, reported that the New York 'town hall' McCain wanted to have with Obama was stacked with ticketholding McCain supporters, not the general public.
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Post by General Zod »

McSame using the "blame the victim" tactic? How. . .completely unsurprising and Republican of him.
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Post by Illuminatus Primus »

He blames children of drug addicts for their situation if they want health care or assistance, and women who've been raped for being pregnant if they want an abortion, so who is surprised?
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Post by Darth Wong »

And still, no matter how large the mountain of evidence against this preposterous idea, people continue to claim that the media is "liberal biased".
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Post by Big Orange »

It seems like US political debate over at Spacebattles.com has seriously gone off the deep end (not that it was brilliant to begin with) and shows how ingrained rabid conservative sentiments are in the general population (who don't realize how deeply betrayed they have been by the Republicans) let alone the 'mainstream' media (who are constantly barked at to tow the party line).
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Post by Cos Dashit »

I remember back when Clinton was still in the running and it was unclear who the democratic candidate would be. Some ads attacking Obama appeared on the web, and McCain took them down, saying he was not going to run a smear campaign, in any way, shape, or form.

Once it became obvious that Obama would win against Hillary, McCain started attacking Obama on everything, "He's only been to Iraq once!", "He won't debate me!", and dropping snide comments about Obama's experience, plans for Iraq, etc.

Seriously, if you're going to say something, stick with it. At least try.
Please forgive any idiotic comments, stupid observations, or dumb questions in above post, for I am but a college student with little real world experience.
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Post by Steve »

Big Orange wrote:It seems like US political debate over at Spacebattles.com has seriously gone off the deep end (not that it was brilliant to begin with) and shows how ingrained rabid conservative sentiments are in the general population (who don't realize how deeply betrayed they have been by the Republicans) let alone the 'mainstream' media (who are constantly barked at to tow the party line).
Why are you even looking at discussions on SB? Shouldn't you be preserving those precious minutes for more important things like, say, breathing?
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Post by Rye »

Big Orange wrote:It seems like US political debate over at Spacebattles.com has seriously gone off the deep end (not that it was brilliant to begin with) and shows how ingrained rabid conservative sentiments are in the general population (who don't realize how deeply betrayed they have been by the Republicans) let alone the 'mainstream' media (who are constantly barked at to tow the party line).
That's because they're fuckwits that think politics goes: Libertarian (good), Authoritarian right wing (dubbed centrist, so good), socialist marxist liberal gay-whiner, atheist-whiner, gun-taker(bad), commie-nazi (bad). All problems are down to individuals, and America can kick your country's ass, so shut the Hell up.
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Post by Darth Wong »

Big Orange wrote:It seems like US political debate over at Spacebattles.com has seriously gone off the deep end (not that it was brilliant to begin with) and shows how ingrained rabid conservative sentiments are in the general population (who don't realize how deeply betrayed they have been by the Republicans) let alone the 'mainstream' media (who are constantly barked at to tow the party line).
SpaceBattles.Com is a haven for troglodyte conservative morons, and always has been. We're talking about the kind of people who think Rush Limbaugh makes good points.
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Post by Steve »

Darth Wong wrote:
Big Orange wrote:It seems like US political debate over at Spacebattles.com has seriously gone off the deep end (not that it was brilliant to begin with) and shows how ingrained rabid conservative sentiments are in the general population (who don't realize how deeply betrayed they have been by the Republicans) let alone the 'mainstream' media (who are constantly barked at to tow the party line).
SpaceBattles.Com is a haven for troglodyte conservative morons, and always has been. We're talking about the kind of people who think Rush Limbaugh makes good points.
They used to have a more diverse political spectrum, but aside from equally-stupid and idiotic douchebag leftists like Cairon it seems the majority has tilted over to that direction.

Just another point in the column proving the decline of Spacebattles, gleefully assisted by a mod staff committed to intellectual mediocrity since enforcing rules on intellectual honesty would take away from the board being 'fun'.
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"No folly is more costly than the folly of intolerant idealism." - Sir Winston L. S. Churchill, Princips Britannia

American Conservatism is about the exercise of personal responsibility without state interference in the lives of the citizenry..... unless, of course, it involves using the bludgeon of state power to suppress things Conservatives do not like.

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Post by Einhander Sn0m4n »

'Blame the Victim' mentality from a Republican? Say it ain't so! GG no re, McSame :lol:
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Post by The Yosemite Bear »

Owch! to hear one of the most respected of the SB mods talk like that just hurts man...
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Post by Big Orange »

Steve wrote:They used to have a more diverse political spectrum, but aside from equally-stupid and idiotic douchebag leftists like Cairon it seems the majority has tilted over to that direction.

Just another point in the column proving the decline of Spacebattles, gleefully assisted by a mod staff committed to intellectual mediocrity since enforcing rules on intellectual honesty would take away from the board being 'fun'.
Well on SD.Net, I sometimes wonder if I'm watching the same TV show or movie as most people here, but at least political or historical debates are much more grounded most of the time and it really feels like the loonies have taken over the asylum in the election sub-forum of Spacebattles.com (in that nuthouse, advocating public health care and restricting Neoliberalist policies that are wrecking the economy makes you a communist pinko liberal).
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Post by Pulp Hero »

I think a lot of reaonable people on SB have decided to just stop posting in politics. Last time I commented mild support for a position it got eaten in flames.
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Post by Slacker »

Yeah, I'd agree with that one...I just don't bother with the political debate forums any more. When Bryan's the moderate voice on the board, there's a problem.
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Post by Shinova »

Bryan's moderate? I wonder what that makes E1701, whose anti-Obama position can pretty much be summed up by: "He's too charismatic." :lol:
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Post by Big Orange »

Bryan is delusional and seems like Saddam's propaganda minister, but he is nowhere near as actively malevolent and psychopathic as Future Merc (who tries to argue for schoolyard bullying for fuck's sake). But the rest of Spacebattles.com is not so bad and seems a little more easy going.
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Post by Setesh »

Shinova wrote:Bryan's moderate? I wonder what that makes E1701, whose anti-Obama position can pretty much be summed up by: "He's too charismatic." :lol:
I've heard worse, there are comments on one of Obama's televised speech's like.

'He's too casual'
'His body language is odd.'
'He's not black, his ancestors weren't slaves' (this one has 30 people go, wtf?)
'His head is shaped oddly'
'He said republican's were proud to be ignorant' (misquote of the tire gauge response)

On and on, I haven't seen many rational reasons not to vote for him come up.
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Post by Death from the Sea »

Darth Wong wrote:And still, no matter how large the mountain of evidence against this preposterous idea, people continue to claim that the media is "liberal biased".
the printed media tends to be more so than the tv media
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Post by Darth Wong »

Death from the Sea wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:And still, no matter how large the mountain of evidence against this preposterous idea, people continue to claim that the media is "liberal biased".
the printed media tends to be more so than the tv media
Bullshit.
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Post by SirNitram »

Death from the Sea wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:And still, no matter how large the mountain of evidence against this preposterous idea, people continue to claim that the media is "liberal biased".
the printed media tends to be more so than the tv media
David Broder, the man who spewed forth this vitriol at the top of the page, is not merely print media, he occupies some sort of perverse spot near the top of the political print media.

And what did he say? Obama's at fault. McCain hits him because he loves him.
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Post by The Yosemite Bear »

Of course in the mind of your typical abuser it's always the other person's fault. Rascist: It's the dark people's fault, Wife Beater: I love her, but she just pushes my buttons too much, Child Abuser: they have no respect for authority, Currupt Cop: You don't know what it's like to go through that neighborhood full of people that hate me.
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Post by Big Orange »

Well it seems like some SB posters are getting bored of TK99's Neocon bravado (even bragging about the infamous detention compound at Guantanamo).
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