"The Truth About Russia in Georgia"

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"The Truth About Russia in Georgia"

Post by Battlehymn Republic »

Is there any truth to this?

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August 26, 2008

The Truth About Russia in Georgia


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TBILISI, GEORGIA – Virtually everyone believes Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili foolishly provoked a Russian invasion on August 7, 2008, when he sent troops into the breakaway district of South Ossetia. “The warfare began Aug. 7 when Georgia launched a barrage targeting South Ossetia,” the Associated Press reported over the weekend in typical fashion.

Virtually everyone is wrong. Georgia didn't start it on August 7, nor on any other date. The South Ossetian militia started it on August 6 when its fighters fired on Georgian peacekeepers and Georgian villages with weapons banned by the agreement hammered out between the two sides in 1994. At the same time, the Russian military sent its invasion force bearing down on Georgia from the north side of the Caucasus Mountains on the Russian side of the border through the Roki tunnel and into Georgia. This happened before Saakashvili sent additional troops to South Ossetia and allegedly started the war.

Regional expert, German native, and former European Commission official Patrick Worms was recently hired by the Georgian government as a media advisor, and he explained to me exactly what happened when I met him in downtown Tbilisi. You should always be careful with the version of events told by someone on government payroll even when the government is as friendly and democratic as Georgia's. I was lucky, though, that another regional expert, author and academic Thomas Goltz, was present during Worms' briefing to me and signed off on it as completely accurate aside from one tiny quibble.

Goltz has been writing about the Caucasus region for almost 20 years, and he isn't on Georgian government payroll. He earns his living from the University of Montana and from the sales of his books Azerbaijan Diary, Georgia Diary and Chechnya Diary. Goltz experienced these three Caucasus republics at their absolute worst, and he knows the players and the events better than just about anyone. Every journalist in Tbilisi seeks him out as the old hand who knows more than the rest of us put together, and he wanted to hear Patrick Worms' spiel to reporters in part to ensure its accuracy.

“You,” Worms said to Goltz just before he started to flesh out the real story to me, “are going to be bored because I'm going to give some back story that you know better than I do.”

“Go,” Goltz said. “Go.”

The back story began at least as early as the time of the Soviet Union. I turned on my digital voice recorder so I wouldn't miss anything that was said.

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Patrick Worms

“A key tool that the Soviet Union used to keep its empire together,” Worms said to me, “was pitting ethnic groups against one another. They did this extremely skillfully in the sense that they never generated ethnic wars within their own territory. But when the Soviet Union collapsed it became an essential Russian policy to weaken the states on its periphery by activating the ethnic fuses they planted.

http://www.michaeltotten.com/images/Pea ... bilisi.jpg
A poster on a wall in Tbilisi, Georgia

“They tried that in a number of countries. They tried it in the Baltic states, but the fuses were defused. Nothing much happened. They tried it in Ukraine. It has not happened yet, but it's getting hotter. They tried it in Moldova. There it worked, and now we have Transnitria. They tried it in Armenia and Azerbaijan and it went beyond their wildest dreams and we ended up with a massive, massive war. And they tried it in two territories in Georgia, which I'll talk about in a minute. They didn't try it in Central Asia because basically all the presidents of the newly independent countries were the former heads of the communist parties and they said we're still following your line, Kremlin, we haven't changed very much.”

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He's right about the massive war between Armenia and Azerbaijan, though few outside the region know much about it. Armenians and Azeris very thoroughly transferred Azeris and Armenians “back” to their respective mother countries after the Soviet Union collapsed through pogroms, massacres, and ethnic-cleansing. Hundreds of thousands of refugees fled savage communal warfare in terror. The Armenian military still occupies the ethnic-Armenian Nagorno-Karabakh region in southwestern Azerbaijan. It's another so-called “frozen conflict” in the Caucasus region waiting to thaw. Moscow takes the Armenian side and could blow up Nagorno-Karabakh, and subsequently all of Azerbaijan, at any time. After hearing the strident Azeri point of view on the conflict for a week before I arrived in Georgia, I'd say that particular ethnic-nationalist fuse is about one millimeter in length.

“Now the story starts really in 1992 when this fuse was lit in Georgia,” Worms said. “Now, there's two territories. There's Abkhazia which has clearly defined administrative borders, and there's South Ossetia that doesn't. Before the troubles started, Abkhazia was an extremely ethnically mixed area: about 60 percent Georgian, 20 percent Abkhaz, and 20 percent assorted others – Greeks, Estonians, Armenians, Jews, what have you. In Ossetia it was a completely integrated and completely mixed Ossetian-Georgian population. The Ossetians and the Georgians have never been apart in the sense that they were living in their own little villages and doing their own little things. There has been inter-marriage and a sense of common understanding going back to distant history. The Georgians will tell you about King Tamar – that's a woman, but they called her a king – and she was married to an Ossetian. So the fuse was lit and two wars start, one in Abkhazia and one in South Ossetia.”

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South Ossetia is inside Georgia, while North Ossetia is inside Russia.

“The fuse was not just lit in Moscow,” he said. “It was also lit in Tbilisi. There was a guy in charge here, Zviad Gamsakhurdia, a little bit like [Serbian Nationalist war criminal in Bosnia Radovan] Karadzic. He was a poet. He was an intellectual. But he was one of these guys who veered off into ethnic exclusivism. He made stupid declarations like Georgia is only for the Georgians. If you're running a multi-ethnic country, that is really not a clever thing to say. The central control of the state was extremely weak. The Russians were trying to make things worse. There was a civil war between Georgians and Tbilisi. But the key thing is that here there were militias, Georgian militias, and some of them pretty nasty.”

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Thomas Goltz

Thomas Goltz then interjected his only critique of Patrick Worms' explanation of events that led to this war. “It started in 1991,” he said, “but it went into 1992 and 1993, as well.” Then he turned to me. “This guy, [Zviad] Gamsakhurdia, was driven from power from across the street. They bombed this place.” He meant the Marriott Hotel. We stood in the lobby where Worms had set up his media relations operation. “There's a horrible picture in my Georgia book of this facade.”

“Of this building?” I said.

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Marriot Hotel (right), Tbilisi, Georgia

“Yeah,” Goltz said. “That was December 1991. He fled in December 1991.”

“Where did he go?” I said.

“To Chechnya,” Goltz said. “Of course. He led the government in exile until he came back in 1993 then died obscurely in the mountains, of suicide some people say, others say cancer. Then he was buried in Grozny.” He turned then again to Patrick Worms. “1991,” he said. “Not 1992.”

“1991,” Worms said. “Okay.”

So aside from that quibble, everything else Worms said to me was vouched for as accurate by the man who literally wrote the book on this conflict from the point of view of both academic and witness.

“So in 1991,” Worms said, “things here explode. And basically it gets pretty nasty. Thomas can tell you what happened. Read his book, it's worth it. And by the time the dust settles, there are between 20,000 and 30,000 dead. Many atrocities committed by both sides, but mostly – at least that's what the Georgians say – by the Abkhaz. And the end result is everybody gets kicked out. Everybody who is not Abkhaz or Russian gets kicked out. That's about 400,000 people. 250,000 of those still live as Internally Displaced Persons within Georgia. As for the rest: the Greeks have gone back to Greece, the Armenians to Armenia, some Abkhaz to Turkey, etc.

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Abkhazia (upper left)

“When it's over,” he said, “you've got two bits of Abkhazia which are not ethnic Abkhazia. You've got Gali district which is filled with ethnic Georgians. And you've got the Kodori Gorge which is filled with another bunch of Georgians. So there the end result was a classic case of ethnic-cleansing, but the world didn't pay much attention because it was happening at the same time as the Yugoslav wars. Ossetia was different. Ossetia also had a war that started about the same time, and it was also pretty nasty, but it never quite succeeded in generating a consolidated bit of territory that Ossetians could keep their own. When the dust settled there, you ended up with a patchwork of Georgian and Ossetian villages. Before the war, Ossetians and Georgians lived together in the same villages. After the war they lived in separate villages. But there were still contacts. People were talking, people were trading. It wasn't quite as nasty as it was in Abkhazia.

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“Now fast forward to the Rose Revolution,” he said.

The Rose Revolution was a popular bloodless revolution that brought Georgia's current president Mikheil Saakashvili to power and replaced the old man of Georgian politics Eduard Shevardnadze who basically ran the country Soviet-style.

“The first thing that Misha [Mikheil Saakashvili] did was try to poke his finger in [Russian President Vladimir] Putin's eyes as many times as possible,” Worms said, “most notably by wanting to join NATO. The West, in my view, mishandled this situation. America gave the wrong signals. So did Europe.”

“Can you elaborate on that a bit?” I said.

“I will,” he said. “But basically the encouragement was given despite stronger and stronger Russian signals that a Georgian accession to NATO would not be tolerated. Fast forward to 2008, to this year, to the meeting of NATO heads of state that took place in Bucharest, Romania, where Georgia was promised eventual membership of the organization but was refused what it really wanted, which was the so-called Membership Action Plan. The Membership Action Plan is the bureaucratic tool NATO uses to prepare countries for membership. And this despite the fact that military experts will tell you that the Georgian Army, which had been reformed root and branch with American support, was now in better shape and more able to meet NATO aspirations than the armies of Albania and Macedonia which got offered membership at the same meeting.

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Tbilisi, Georgia

“Just a little bit of back story again, in July of 2007 Russia withdrew from the Conventional Forces Treaty in Europe. This is a Soviet era treaty that dictates where NATO and the Warsaw Pact can keep their conventional armor around their territories. Russia started moving a lot of materiel south. After Bucharest, provocations started. Russian provocations started, and they were mostly in Abkhazia.

“One provocation was to use the Russian media to launch shrill accusations that the Georgian army was in Kodori preparing for an invasion of Abkhazia. Now if you go up there – I took a bunch of journalists up there a few times – when you get to the actual checkpoint you have a wall of crumbling rock, a wooden bridge, another wall of crumbling rock, a raging torrent, and a steep mountainside filled with woods. It's not possible to invade out or invade in unless you've got air support. Which is why the Abkhaz were never able to kick these Georgians out. They just kept that bit of territory.”

He paused and looked over at Thomas Goltz as though he was bracing for a critique.

“I'm just doing what I've done already,” he said, “but this time I'm getting advice from an expert on how I'm doing.”

Thomas Goltz silently nodded.
The rest is on the blog.
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Post by The Duchess of Zeon »

No. It's a blog, and the rest has been disproved exhaustively. A bunch of neocon anti-Slavic bullshit.
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Post by Stark »

I'm fascinated by the relevance of pictures of streets. Tblisi has buildings... ergo... Georgia rules? I couldn't follow his veering from 'ethnic exclusivity is bad' to 'zomg Georgians not living in Georgia' stuff. Is that wrong? :)
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Post by Battlehymn Republic »

Guy went all of the way to Georgia to do some independent/guerilla blog journalism. If I went to Beijing to cover human rights abuses I'd post all of my vacation pics too, no sense in letting it languish on my hard drive/ a Flicker account.
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Post by PunkMaister »

One thing to be noted about this whole conflict is that one does not see Osetians nor Abkhazians cheering the presence of Russian troops in their respective conflicted territories. So it kind of makes it questionable what is the real agenda of Russia in invading those territories of Georgia in the first place...
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Post by Ender »

PunkMaister wrote:One thing to be noted about this whole conflict is that one does not see Osetians nor Abkhazians cheering the presence of Russian troops in their respective conflicted territories. So it kind of makes it questionable what is the real agenda of Russia in invading those territories of Georgia in the first place...
Funny how we've seen multiple videos of exactly what you claim we haven't seen then, like how they had the family praising the Russians on Fox News and Fox scrambled to a commercial.
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Post by Illuminatus Primus »

The Duchess of Zeon wrote:No. It's a blog, and the rest has been disproved exhaustively. A bunch of neocon anti-Slavic bullshit.
Why must an opposition opinion toward Russia be anti-Slavic? This is why people think you're an agitator; you use language which escalates discussions. You must not merely name a fraud but imply racist motives to boot.
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Post by Pelranius »

*pokes IvP moratorium*

This sounds like the typical garbage I've read from Christian Zionists and neocons "justifying" for the settlement squatting in the Occupied Territories, which itself in turn sounds like the rantings of Islamic Fundamentalists going on about the Elders of Zion.

All fanatics do sound the same. I suppose there might be some justification for classifying bigotry as a mental disease after all.
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Post by K. A. Pital »

“A key tool that the Soviet Union used to keep its empire together,” Worms said to me, “was pitting ethnic groups against one another. They did this extremely skillfully in the sense that they never generated ethnic wars within their own territory. But when the Soviet Union collapsed it became an essential Russian policy to weaken the states on its periphery by activating the ethnic fuses they planted."
What an idiot. The USSR used to forcibly pacify ethnic conflicts "to keep it's empire together". What he said doesn't make any fucking sense. Did we "plant" Chechnya in the RSFSR to have a war later? :lol: Tajikistan maybe?

The idiot also thinks we want those post-Soviet wars. :roll:

The only real truth may be the following: we are vowing to include Abkhazia into a Union State with Russia and Belorus (something that Medvedev hinted at) - for the sake of basing our Red Banner Black Fleet Navy, due to the Ukrainian nationalist hysteria.
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Post by Block »

Illuminatus Primus wrote:
The Duchess of Zeon wrote:No. It's a blog, and the rest has been disproved exhaustively. A bunch of neocon anti-Slavic bullshit.
Why must an opposition opinion toward Russia be anti-Slavic? This is why people think you're an agitator; you use language which escalates discussions. You must not merely name a fraud but imply racist motives to boot.
Especially since there's a lot of Slavs outside of Russia that hate the Russian government. But I spose they're all self hating right?
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Post by K. A. Pital »

Especially since there's a lot of Slavs outside of Russia that hate the Russian government.
Ahem... there's quite a lot of Slavic people inside Russia which hate the government as well.

This particular matter of foreign policy, however, has united almost all of Russia - only 1% thinks Russia is acting wrongly and 8% think Russia is to blame for S.O. and Abkhazia.

It's a matter which Western leaders, who, and I beg your pardon, look more like talking heads disconnected from reality, need to understand.
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Post by Illuminatus Primus »

That doesn't mean opposition to Russia's foreign policy means that you're ideologically anti-Slavic. Its the exact same reasoning by which opposition to Israel is anti-Semitic.
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Post by Block »

Stas Bush wrote:
Especially since there's a lot of Slavs outside of Russia that hate the Russian government.
Ahem... there's quite a lot of Slavic people inside Russia which hate the government as well.

This particular matter of foreign policy, however, has united almost all of Russia - only 1% thinks Russia is acting wrongly and 8% think Russia is to blame for S.O. and Abkhazia.

It's a matter which Western leaders, who, and I beg your pardon, look more like talking heads disconnected from reality, need to understand.
I'm not really commenting on the current situation, simply on the fact that not liking the Russian government doesn't make one "Slavophobic."
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Post by K. A. Pital »

Illuminatus Primus wrote:That doesn't mean opposition to Russia's foreign policy means that you're ideologically anti-Slavic.
Sure. I'm merely noting that opposition on this particular issue is likely to be not just the opposition to the Russian government, but to the absolute majority of Russian citizens and their opinion. It doesn't indicate that someone is ideologically anti-Slavic, anti-Russian or whatnot.
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Post by Battlehymn Republic »

Did anyone even read the actual full post where he eventually talks to Georgian veterans from the conflict.
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Post by Vympel »

PunkMaister wrote:One thing to be noted about this whole conflict is that one does not see Osetians nor Abkhazians cheering the presence of Russian troops in their respective conflicted territories. So it kind of makes it questionable what is the real agenda of Russia in invading those territories of Georgia in the first place...
You need to look around more. Such pictures are quite common.
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Post by CJvR »

Well it hardly matters anymore if Moscow started it since the Georgians in that case took the bait hook line and sinker. A days worth of international press about the SO militas aggression while the Russian "peacekeepers" did absolutely nothing would have altered the spinn on the entire thing.
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Post by Pablo Sanchez »

Vympel wrote:You need to look around more. Such pictures are quite common.
In fact one of the articles in yesterday's New York Times was most concerned with how jubilant South Ossetians were with Russia's recognition of their independence, and how much they wanted Russia to absorb them. It included some of the reasons, at least one of which I had no idea about (apparently the Georgian government liked to divert the S. Ossetians' drinking water to irrigate farming areas settled by ethnic Georgians).
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Post by Big Orange »

The Duchess of Zeon wrote:No. It's a blog, and the rest has been disproved exhaustively. A bunch of neocon anti-Slavic bullshit.
While I'm not anti-Slavic or anti-Russian per se, didn't the inept Tsar Nicholas the 2nd help widen the regional Austro-Hungarian conflict against Serbia into the First World War, because he wanted another war to distract his malcontent subjects? While Josef Stalin (who was ironically a Georgian) help sign a non-aggression pact with a ultramilitant Germany, giving Hitler a free hand for the conquest of Poland and France?

But in this case, the war against Georgia seemed less premeditated and Russia does not seem to want to dig it's feels down into a grinding occupation, but it is sill not good at all and threatening Poland with a nuclear strike is fucking heavy stuff.
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Post by Fingolfin_Noldor »

Big Orange wrote:... threatening Poland with a nuclear strike is fucking heavy stuff.
Erm, Poland under the threat of nukes has been there since at least the end of the Cold War. So... what's new?
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Post by CJvR »

Big Orange wrote: ...didn't the inept Tsar Nicholas the 2nd help widen the regional Austro-Hungarian conflict against Serbia into the First World War, because he wanted another war to distract his malcontent subjects?...
No not really. The main blame for that war lies in Belgrade and Vienna. Russias main contribution was it's incompetence.
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Post by K. A. Pital »

Big Orange wrote:... threatening Poland with a nuclear strike is fucking heavy stuff.
We didn't threaten Poland with "a nuclear strike". We threatened it with expanded re-targeting of our MRBMs. Just made public the thing we should inevitably do with the placement of US interceptors and radar facilities there, duh.

Poland would've get wiped out in a nuclear war anyway, so it's just a cold note on the door: "Now you have one more US/NATO military installation that requires a huge number of nukes to kill".
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Post by Big Orange »

CJvR wrote:
Big Orange wrote: ...didn't the inept Tsar Nicholas the 2nd help widen the regional Austro-Hungarian conflict against Serbia into the First World War, because he wanted another war to distract his malcontent subjects?...
No not really. The main blame for that war lies in Belgrade and Vienna. Russias main contribution was it's incompetence.
Yes, like I said the last Russia Tsar was not primarily to blame for World War I, but he did make a regional conflict (escelated by the Austrian-Hungarians) far worse than it was and it helped drag in the other Great Powers soon enough, all for the sake of internal prestige that horrifically backfired. Nicholas the 2nd being violently overthrowed seemed fitting.
Stas Bush wrote:We didn't threaten Poland with "a nuclear strike". We threatened it with expanded re-targeting of our MRBMs. Just made public the thing we should inevitably do with the placement of US interceptors and radar facilities there, duh.

Poland would've get wiped out in a nuclear war anyway, so it's just a cold note on the door: "Now you have one more US/NATO military installation that requires a huge number of nukes to kill".
Yes I agree and concede, America was not helping things by going back several steps to the Cold War by placing strategic defences in Poland. But Russia is getting cocky again when it is sitting on impressive oil and gas reserves.
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