Scientology to go on trial in France for "organised fra

[Sea Skimmer]

BBC NEWS
Scientology 'faces French trial'

The Church of Scientology in France will be tried in court for "organised fraud", according to legal sources.

The lawyer for one of the plaintiffs behind the case told the BBC that if convicted the controversial Church could be banned.

The Church has faced stiff opposition in France as well as Germany, where it has been declared unconstitutional.

The French branch of the Church of Scientology said it had been cleared of "numerous" similar charges.

It said such charges should not be brought to court again.

This case stems from claims by a woman who said she was approached by Scientologists in a Paris street in 1998 and offered a free personality test.

She says she ended up handing over more than 20,000 euros (£16,000) for courses, books, illegally prescribed drugs and an "electrometer" supposed to measure fluctuations in her mental state.

Olivier Morice, a lawyer for the woman and for one other plaintiff in the case, says the case could be brought before the court by the end of the year or in early 2009.

'Commercial operation'

Scientology was founded in the United States in the 1950s by science-fiction writer L Ron Hubbard.

It has attracted stars such as Tom Cruise, John Travolta and the late Isaac Hayes.

But it been accused in some countries of cult-like practices and exploiting its followers financially.

Scientologists reject this and say that they promote a religion based on the understanding of the human spirit.

France refuses to recognise Scientology as a religion, categorising it as a purely commercial operation and keeping it under surveillance.

In Germany last year, federal and state interior ministers declared the Church of Scientology unconstitutional, and in France in 2000 a government committee recommended dissolving the Church.

However, in October a Spanish court ruled that the Church of Scientology of Spain should be re-entered into the country's register of officially recognised religions.
Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/e ... 604311.stm

Published: 2008/09/08 13:53:07 GMT

© BBC MMVIII

[Superman]

This bunch of goofballs can't seem to go three weeks without getting sued, having their status as a "religion" taken away, attacked by computer nerds, or banned entirely from certain places. Even in nations where the "church" is allowed to flourish, it's often viewed with suspicion by the government because of past criminal activity. I wonder if, someday, these tards are somehow just going to do themselves in.

[Saxtonite]

attacked by computer nerds,

I wonder if, someday, these tards are somehow just going to do themselves in.

It probably is those groups who are still participating in chanology who have something to do with that or helped in some way. I remember some of them managed to revoke their tax status in Texas and one of the "Low Countries" of Europe (or at least try, not sure)..

[Tanasinn]

I doubt Scientology will do itself in with something like a Kool-Aid incident. It is, as our German friends have stated, a financial scam. If things start getting too hot, the head honchos will pack up, make up a new, similar scam, and go back to ripping off the same fucking morons that go for Scientology now.

[Superman]

It probably is those groups who are still participating in chanology who have something to do with that or helped in some way. I remember some of them managed to revoke their tax status in Texas and one of the "Low Countries" of Europe (or at least try, not sure)..

What I mostly meant was that the Church of Scientology has some self destructive tendencies. One the one hand, the Church is very wealthy, resourceful, and probably commands an army of lawyers. On the other, it seems to have a hard time keeping itself off of the FBI or IRS' radar.

[Rogue 9]

They took themselves off the IRS' radar fairly decisively in 1993 by (allegedly) blackmailing the commissioner*, getting their special tax deal (which is different from any religious organizations'), and then having the records of the deal sealed.

*David Miscavige, the "Chairman of the Board," claims to have obtained an unscheduled meeting with Fred Goldberg, then the IRS Commissioner, in 1991. No minutes of this meeting exist, but Miscavige claims he offered to drop all of Scientology's lawsuits against the IRS in exchange for tax exempt status. After the meeting, Goldberg appointed a special working group to work out the disagreement, completely bypassing the normal channels for tax exempt status. This is after Scientology spent decades using both legal and illegal methods to obtain personal information on high government officials, particularly those involved with the IRS and Treasury; circumstance points to extortion, though there's no direct evidence. Reference: New York Times.

[Darth Wong]

Sorry, but I can't get excited about Scientology getting persecuted for doing things that are A-OK when they're done in the name of a "legitimate" religion like Christianity. This is not an assault on fraud; it is an attempt to perpetuate the notion that longstanding religions are superior.

[Wicked Pilot]

This is France we're talking about. Catholicism is on it's way to a natural death so I certainly see the merit in letting it continue to slide on its own while clamping down on any dangerous upstarts like Scientology of Islam trying to fill the void.

[Adrian Laguna]

Sorry, but I can't get excited about Scientology getting persecuted for doing things that are A-OK when they're done in the name of a "legitimate" religion like Christianity. This is not an assault on fraud; it is an attempt to perpetuate the notion that longstanding religions are superior.

This is France we're talking about, if the Catholic Church were prescribing drugs illegally or selling devices with supposed medical benefits they'd be going after them too.

[Rogue 9]

Sorry, but I can't get excited about Scientology getting persecuted for doing things that are A-OK when they're done in the name of a "legitimate" religion like Christianity. This is not an assault on fraud; it is an attempt to perpetuate the notion that longstanding religions are superior.

Scientology is an organized crime syndicate that chooses to use religion as its front. It did not claim to be a religion when it started out (Dianetics is subtitled "The Modern Science of Mental Health"), and still claims to not be one when it's convenient for them (such as when trying to lure religious people into their schemes). L. Ron Hubbard used to claim that his auditing and vitamin regimens were scientific treatments until a federal court ruled otherwise and the IRS started moving in for tax fraud; his response was to give his organization the trappings of religion. It wasn't until the 1970s that the fees became fixed donations, the franchises became missions, and so on and so forth; even with all that, nothing really changed. That they chose to use a faux church as their front doesn't make this a religious issue any more than it would if the Mob were to found a phony denomination for money laundering.

[Kanastrous]

*shrug*

Insert name of any religion here is an organized crime syndicate that chooses to use certain trapping as a front.

[Darth Wong]

Sorry, but I can't get excited about Scientology getting persecuted for doing things that are A-OK when they're done in the name of a "legitimate" religion like Christianity. This is not an assault on fraud; it is an attempt to perpetuate the notion that longstanding religions are superior.

Scientology is an organized crime syndicate that chooses to use religion as its front.

And Christianity began as part of the Roman Emperor Constantine's plan to unify the known world under one oppressive regime. That's somehow morally superior to you?

It did not claim to be a religion when it started out (Dianetics is subtitled "The Modern Science of Mental Health"), and still claims to not be one when it's convenient for them (such as when trying to lure religious people into their schemes).

So? Judaism did not claim to be a religion when it started out either. It claimed to be fact.

L. Ron Hubbard used to claim that his auditing and vitamin regimens were scientific treatments until a federal court ruled otherwise and the IRS started moving in for tax fraud; his response was to give his organization the trappings of religion.

Judeo-Christianity also claimed that its beliefs were factual until the scientific evidence became overwhelming, at which point they invented this "religion and science occupy different spheres" bullshit.

It wasn't until the 1970s that the fees became fixed donations, the franchises became missions, and so on and so forth; even with all that, nothing really changed. That they chose to use a faux church as their front doesn't make this a religious issue any more than it would if the Mob were to found a phony denomination for money laundering.

Oh, so it's a "faux" church? What defines a "real" church? The cross?

You're full of shit. The fact is that all religions are nothing more than scientifically absurd nonsense that people made up, usually for personal gain (look at all the rules in the Old Testament which just happen to benefit the rulers and/or the priesthood). The only difference between "real" religions and "faux" ones is that the "real" ones are older. All of the arguments Christians use to justify their beliefs could just as easily be applied to Scientology.

[Rye]

Scientology is an organized crime syndicate that chooses to use religion as its front.

The same could be said about the Roman Catholic Church, what with crimen sollicitationis, aiding and abetting known paedophiles and all the dodgy money and connections to the mafia over the years.

That they chose to use a faux church as their front doesn't make this a religious issue any more than it would if the Mob were to found a phony denomination for money laundering.

Or a real one. Of course, the church hasn't always been strident in its condemnation of the mafia until relatively recently, and even now it's rare that sicilian church officials will come out and say to belong to the mafia is to be immoral. And these really are the issues of morality, traditionally the issues that are religious in nature. Condoms vs Mafia? Condoms will be far more condemned.

[Singular Intellect]

Would be awesome if they moved on afterwards to all other religions that are guilty of things beyond relatively trivial fraud. Things like murder, genocide, war, etc.

[Vendetta]

The only difference between "real" religions and "faux" ones is that the "real" ones are older.

That's pretty much it. Most of the people associated with older churches are actually there because they buy into the associated nonsense, but Scientology is still young enough that the people at the top are still in it for the scam, so they can be nipped in the bud.

[Stargate Nerd]

Sorry, but I can't get excited about Scientology getting persecuted for doing things that are A-OK when they're done in the name of a "legitimate" religion like Christianity. This is not an assault on fraud; it is an attempt to perpetuate the notion that longstanding religions are superior.

My sentiments exactly. It's always especially funny when people complain about how Scientologists are trying to hijack and subvert governments. Like Fundamentalist Christians and Islamists aren't attempting the same darn thing worldwide.

[Rogue 9]

Oh, so it's a "faux" church? What defines a "real" church? The cross?

No; sincere belief does. Scientology's veneer of religious belief is explicitly stated to be a sham designed to gain and maintain tax exemption in their own internal documents. The higher ups don't believe it any more than you do.

But that's largely irrelevant to the issue. I don't give a blue damn what Scientologists choose to believe; they can believe in body thetans, Xenu, past volcanic genocide, and all the rest and it doesn't bother me one bit. You know damn well that I don't give a shit about differences in religious belief or lack thereof. That is not the problem.

The problems are many. First, Scientology is not open about its beliefs to potential converts. By the time someone has reached OT III and learned about the core beliefs of his church, he has been in for years, probably decades even, and either spent over $300,000 or been on staff working insane hours for little pay for all that time. Whatever else you might say about Islam, Hinduism, Christianity, Wicca, and so forth, at least their beliefs aren't top secret; when someone joins, he knows what he's getting.

Second, brainwashing. Hubbard carefully designed auditing and Scientology courses to break down the individual's sense of self to make them more pliant to his wishes. I know, I know; you think Christianity does the same thing, but even if it does, it isn't to anything close to this degree. Longtime Scientologists have a hard time even functioning in normal society. The conditioning is designed to make those receiving it highly suggestible; most people who actually get to the Operating Thetan levels and start learning the core beliefs of Scientology (which include human superpowers in addition to the aforementioned thetans and Xenu, which I acknowledge aren't that much more far-fetched than most other religious beliefs) would not accept them if they hadn't already been through years of intense conditioning first.

Third, false medical practice. Let me be the first to say that faith healers of any stripe are fucking scum, and that I realize Scientology isn't unique in this, but it's there. Many members have died in Scientology's care and even more have suffered total mental breakdowns due to the organization's hatred of psychiatric care and its promotion of auditing as a cure for mental illness, this when auditing is designed to weaken the mind. Scientology claims to be able to cure any mental illness and several things that aren't illnesses at all, including Down's syndrome, schizophrenia, homosexuality (not an illness of course, though they say it is), autism (my personal beef with them), bipolar disorder, and any other you care to name.

Fourth, tax evasion. As a conservative estimate, Scientology's various corporate entities, of which there are many, collectively owe well over $150 million in back taxes, just from before they gained their irregular, if not downright illegal, tax exemption. (Scientology's collective group of corporations had combined average annual revenues of $285 million between 1967 and 1993, when they gained tax exemption; $150 million is about 2% of total income over those years, an extremely low figure. Again, New York Times.)

Fifth, and somewhat related to the second entry on this list, Scientology uses multiple front groups, including Narconon, the poorly named Citizens' Commission on Human Rights, HealthMed, Sterling Management Systems, Applied Scholastics, and several other entities to recruit. Other religions, of course, have mission groups and charities that serve the same purpose, but Scientology's fronts universally deny that they're connected to Scientology, but then later will discover "problems" with their clients that, surprise, they need auditing to solve. This, again, plays into the fraud charges, some of which the OP mentions, because they explicitly claim to be something they're not.

Sixth, persecution of critics. Yes, fanatics of all stripes do this, but few in the Western world do so as effectively as Scientology. If you criticize a radical preacher, he's going to yell at you and might organize a picket. If you criticize Scientology, they will sic private investigators on you, attempt to get you fired from your job, accuse you of crimes to your neighbors and acquaintances, file multiple harassing lawsuits, stake out your house, kill your pets, and do whatever else they think they can get away with. This extends to staff members who attempt to leave; several have died under mysterious circumstances after expressing a desire to quit. Immediately springing to mind is the case of Stacy Moxon, who was electrocuted in a transformer room at Gold Base in Hemet, California that she did not have the key to and is underneath a manhole that is normally a two-person job to lift. Those who successfully "blow," as it's called in Scientology jargon, are harassed like any other critics.

Seventh, they have an armed compound in the desert, the aforementioned Gold Base. Religious groups doing that are pretty much always bad news; see the Branch Davidians. Gold Base is also home to the Rehabilitation Project Force, which brings me to:

Eighth, fucking slavery. The RPF is the group that Scientology staff members who are judged to be non-producers or in doubt are assigned to. They are given one-quarter of staff's already extremely low pay, are not allowed to speak unless spoken to, must run (not walk) everywhere they go, are not allowed to mingle with non-RPF staffers, and are made to do the most menial labor available for fifteen hours a day, being allowed precisely seven hours to sleep. They are not permitted to go anywhere outside the company of a security guard. The original RPF order, approved by Hubbard, may be read here.

Should other organized religions be prosecuted when they commit organizational crimes? Hell yes; I don't see anyone denying it, and I vehemently advocate it. But the facts are clear; Scientology is at its root a criminal enterprise, no different from any other criminal enterprise, no matter what airs they may put on, and its leaders are criminals. There have been several court cases in multiple states and countries establishing this. That is why I oppose Scientology like I do other fundamentalist and/or abusive religious groups, and that is why I will continue to oppose Scientology until such time as its abusive practices stop.

[SirNitram]

I'm kinda curious how that's different from certain Christian sects, honestly..

[General Zod]

The problems are many. First, Scientology is not open about its beliefs to potential converts. By the time someone has reached OT III and learned about the core beliefs of his church, he has been in for years, probably decades even, and either spent over $300,000 or been on staff working insane hours for little pay for all that time. Whatever else you might say about Islam, Hinduism, Christianity, Wicca, and so forth, at least their beliefs aren't top secret; when someone joins, he knows what he's getting.

Despite the fact that the vast majority of Christians are largely ignorant of what the Bible actually says about stuff?

Second, brainwashing. Hubbard carefully designed auditing and Scientology courses to break down the individual's sense of self to make them more pliant to his wishes. I know, I know; you think Christianity does the same thing, but even if it does, it isn't to anything close to this degree. Longtime Scientologists have a hard time even functioning in normal society. The conditioning is designed to make those receiving it highly suggestible; most people who actually get to the Operating Thetan levels and start learning the core beliefs of Scientology (which include human superpowers in addition to the aforementioned thetans and Xenu, which I acknowledge aren't that much more far-fetched than most other religious beliefs) would not accept them if they hadn't already been through years of intense conditioning first.

Christianity already starts brainwashing you from before you can speak.

Third, false medical practice. Let me be the first to say that faith healers of any stripe are fucking scum, and that I realize Scientology isn't unique in this, but it's there. Many members have died in Scientology's care and even more have suffered total mental breakdowns due to the organization's hatred of psychiatric care and its promotion of auditing as a cure for mental illness, this when auditing is designed to weaken the mind.

Two words: Jehovas Witnesses.

Scientology claims to be able to cure any mental illness and several things that aren't illnesses at all, including Down's syndrome, schizophrenia, homosexuality (not an illness of course, though they say it is), autism (my personal beef with them), bipolar disorder, and any other you care to name.

And the Catholic Church claims that homosexuality can be "cured" by accepting Christ, or that condoms actually spread AIDs. Next.

Fourth, tax evasion. As a conservative estimate, Scientology's various corporate entities, of which there are many, collectively owe well over $150 million in back taxes, just from before they gained their irregular, if not downright illegal, tax exemption. (Scientology's collective group of corporations had combined average annual revenues of $285 million between 1967 and 1993, when they gained tax exemption; $150 million is about 2% of total income over those years, an extremely low figure. Again, New York Times.)

The tax breaks the Catholic Church and other major religions get is effectively legalized tax evasion. Next.

Fifth, and somewhat related to the second entry on this list, Scientology uses multiple front groups, including Narconon, the poorly named Citizens' Commission on Human Rights, HealthMed, Sterling Management Systems, Applied Scholastics, and several other entities to recruit. Other religions, of course, have mission groups and charities that serve the same purpose, but Scientology's fronts universally deny that they're connected to Scientology, but then later will discover "problems" with their clients that, surprise, they need auditing to solve. This, again, plays into the fraud charges, some of which the OP mentions, because they explicitly claim to be something they're not.

Two words: Mother Theresa.

Sixth, persecution of critics. Yes, fanatics of all stripes do this, but few in the Western world do so as effectively as Scientology. If you criticize a radical preacher, he's going to yell at you and might organize a picket. If you criticize Scientology, they will sic private investigators on you, attempt to get you fired from your job, accuse you of crimes to your neighbors and acquaintances, file multiple harassing lawsuits, stake out your house, kill your pets, and do whatever else they think they can get away with. This extends to staff members who attempt to leave; several have died under mysterious circumstances after expressing a desire to quit. Immediately springing to mind is the case of Stacy Moxon, who was electrocuted in a transformer room at Gold Base in Hemet, California that she did not have the key to and is underneath a manhole that is normally a two-person job to lift. Those who successfully "blow," as it's called in Scientology jargon, are harassed like any other critics.

Major religions do this already, only on a much more massive scale. All they have to do is accuse you of being sexually abnormal and your entire community can turn against you in tight knit environments.

Seventh, they have an armed compound in the desert, the aforementioned Gold Base. Religious groups doing that are pretty much always bad news; see the Branch Davidians. Gold Base is also home to the Rehabilitation Project Force, which brings me to:

Sarah Palin's church in Alaska comes to mind.

Eighth, fucking slavery. The RPF is the group that Scientology staff members who are judged to be non-producers or in doubt are assigned to. They are given one-quarter of staff's already extremely low pay, are not allowed to speak unless spoken to, must run (not walk) everywhere they go, are not allowed to mingle with non-RPF staffers, and are made to do the most menial labor available for fifteen hours a day, being allowed precisely seven hours to sleep. They are not permitted to go anywhere outside the company of a security guard. The original RPF order, approved by Hubbard, may be read here.

A significant deal of religions justified slavery through their beliefs. I'm failing to see any significant difference here.

Should other organized religions be prosecuted when they commit organizational crimes? Hell yes; I don't see anyone denying it, and I vehemently advocate it. But the facts are clear; Scientology is at its root a criminal enterprise, no different from any other religious organization, no matter what airs they may put on, and its leaders are criminals. There have been several court cases in multiple states and countries establishing this. That is why I oppose Scientology like I do other fundamentalist and/or abusive religious groups, and that is why I will continue to oppose Scientology until such time as its abusive practices stop.

Fixed for you.

[MKSheppard]

And Christianity began as part of the Roman Emperor Constantine's plan to unify the known world under one oppressive regime. That's somehow morally superior to you?

Wait what? Constantine invented Christanity? That's a new one for me.

[General Zod]

And Christianity began as part of the Roman Emperor Constantine's plan to unify the known world under one oppressive regime. That's somehow morally superior to you?

Wait what? Constantine invented Christanity? That's a new one for me.

I know, I know, it's a Wiki. . .

The accession of Constantine was a turning point for the Christian Church, generally considered the beginning of Christendom. After his victory, Constantine I took over the role of the patron for the Christian faith. He supported the Church financially, had an extraordinary number of basilicas built, granted privileges (e.g. exemption from certain taxes) to clergy, promoted Christians to high ranking offices, and returned property confiscated during the Great Persecution of Diocletian,[10] and endowed the church with land and other wealth.[11] Between 324 and 330, Constantine built, virtually from scratch, a new imperial capital at Byzantium on the Bosphorus (it came to be named for him: Constantinople) – the city employed overtly Christian architecture, contained churches within the city walls (unlike "old" Rome), and had no pagan temples.[12]

In doing this, however, Constantine I required the Pagans "to foot the bill".[11] Christian chroniclers tell that it appeared necessary to Constantine "to teach his subjects to give up their rites (...) and to accustom them to despise their temples and the images contained therein,"[13] This led to the closure of pagan temples due to a lack of support, their wealth flowing to the imperial treasure;[14] Constantine I did not need to use force to implement this,[11] although his subjects are said to simply have obeyed him out of fear. Only the chronicler Theophanes has added that temples "were annihilated", but this is considered "not true" by contemporary historians. [15]

[Superman]

Constantine canonized Christianity and was largely responsible for its massive growth and acceptance in the Roman Empire, and consequently throughout the world.

[Darth Wong]

Oh, so it's a "faux" church? What defines a "real" church? The cross?

No; sincere belief does. Scientology's veneer of religious belief is explicitly stated to be a sham designed to gain and maintain tax exemption in their own internal documents. The higher ups don't believe it any more than you do.

Totally irrelevant if the followers believe it.

But that's largely irrelevant to the issue. I don't give a blue damn what Scientologists choose to believe; they can believe in body thetans, Xenu, past volcanic genocide, and all the rest and it doesn't bother me one bit. You know damn well that I don't give a shit about differences in religious belief or lack thereof. That is not the problem.

The problems are many. First, Scientology is not open about its beliefs to potential converts. By the time someone has reached OT III and learned about the core beliefs of his church, he has been in for years, probably decades even, and either spent over $300,000 or been on staff working insane hours for little pay for all that time. Whatever else you might say about Islam, Hinduism, Christianity, Wicca, and so forth, at least their beliefs aren't top secret; when someone joins, he knows what he's getting.

And what part of the definition of a "real" religion is that related to?

Second, brainwashing. Hubbard carefully designed auditing and Scientology courses to break down the individual's sense of self to make them more pliant to his wishes. I know, I know; you think Christianity does the same thing, but even if it does, it isn't to anything close to this degree. Longtime Scientologists have a hard time even functioning in normal society. The conditioning is designed to make those receiving it highly suggestible; most people who actually get to the Operating Thetan levels and start learning the core beliefs of Scientology (which include human superpowers in addition to the aforementioned thetans and Xenu, which I acknowledge aren't that much more far-fetched than most other religious beliefs) would not accept them if they hadn't already been through years of intense conditioning first.

Christianity used to have vastly more intrusive techniques. Does this mean that Christianity was not a "real" religion for most of its history?

Third, false medical practice. Let me be the first to say that faith healers of any stripe are fucking scum, and that I realize Scientology isn't unique in this, but it's there. Many members have died in Scientology's care and even more have suffered total mental breakdowns due to the organization's hatred of psychiatric care and its promotion of auditing as a cure for mental illness, this when auditing is designed to weaken the mind. Scientology claims to be able to cure any mental illness and several things that aren't illnesses at all, including Down's syndrome, schizophrenia, homosexuality (not an illness of course, though they say it is), autism (my personal beef with them), bipolar disorder, and any other you care to name.

No different from Christianity, hence not support for your "faux religion" bullshit.

Fourth, tax evasion. As a conservative estimate, Scientology's various corporate entities, of which there are many, collectively owe well over $150 million in back taxes, just from before they gained their irregular, if not downright illegal, tax exemption. (Scientology's collective group of corporations had combined average annual revenues of $285 million between 1967 and 1993, when they gained tax exemption; $150 million is about 2% of total income over those years, an extremely low figure. Again, New York Times.)

If Christianity only recently got a tax exemption, how much back tax would it owe?

Fifth, and somewhat related to the second entry on this list, Scientology uses multiple front groups, including Narconon, the poorly named Citizens' Commission on Human Rights, HealthMed, Sterling Management Systems, Applied Scholastics, and several other entities to recruit. Other religions, of course, have mission groups and charities that serve the same purpose, but Scientology's fronts universally deny that they're connected to Scientology, but then later will discover "problems" with their clients that, surprise, they need auditing to solve. This, again, plays into the fraud charges, some of which the OP mentions, because they explicitly claim to be something they're not.

And Christians claim en masse that creationism is an "alternate scientific theory".

Sixth, persecution of critics. Yes, fanatics of all stripes do this, but few in the Western world do so as effectively as Scientology. If you criticize a radical preacher, he's going to yell at you and might organize a picket. If you criticize Scientology, they will sic private investigators on you, attempt to get you fired from your job, accuse you of crimes to your neighbors and acquaintances, file multiple harassing lawsuits, stake out your house, kill your pets, and do whatever else they think they can get away with. This extends to staff members who attempt to leave; several have died under mysterious circumstances after expressing a desire to quit. Immediately springing to mind is the case of Stacy Moxon, who was electrocuted in a transformer room at Gold Base in Hemet, California that she did not have the key to and is underneath a manhole that is normally a two-person job to lift. Those who successfully "blow," as it's called in Scientology jargon, are harassed like any other critics.

What Scientology does is a pitiful joke compared to the behaviour of the "real" religions in many parts of the world, and particularly in the past.

Seventh, they have an armed compound in the desert, the aforementioned Gold Base. Religious groups doing that are pretty much always bad news; see the Branch Davidians. Gold Base is also home to the Rehabilitation Project Force, which brings me to:

More bullshit where you quote problems with Scientology that also apply to other religions either today or in the past?

Eighth, fucking slavery. The RPF is the group that Scientology staff members who are judged to be non-producers or in doubt are assigned to. They are given one-quarter of staff's already extremely low pay, are not allowed to speak unless spoken to, must run (not walk) everywhere they go, are not allowed to mingle with non-RPF staffers, and are made to do the most menial labor available for fifteen hours a day, being allowed precisely seven hours to sleep. They are not permitted to go anywhere outside the company of a security guard. The original RPF order, approved by Hubbard, may be read here.

Buy a fucking clue, asshole: Christians have done plenty of slavery.

Should other organized religions be prosecuted when they commit organizational crimes? Hell yes; I don't see anyone denying it, and I vehemently advocate it. But the facts are clear; Scientology is at its root a criminal enterprise, no different from any other criminal enterprise, no matter what airs they may put on, and its leaders are criminals. There have been several court cases in multiple states and countries establishing this. That is why I oppose Scientology like I do other fundamentalist and/or abusive religious groups, and that is why I will continue to oppose Scientology until such time as its abusive practices stop.

Scientology is a religion, just like any other religion. It's all well and good to say you oppose it, but unless you oppose Christianity with the same vehemence, you're full of shit.

[Darth Wong]

And Christianity began as part of the Roman Emperor Constantine's plan to unify the known world under one oppressive regime. That's somehow morally superior to you?

Wait what? Constantine invented Christanity? That's a new one for me.

He made it into the Christian church we know today, which has almost nothing to do with anything that Jesus guy said.

[Terralthra]

Scientology is a religion, just like any other religion. It's all well and good to say you oppose it, but unless you oppose Christianity with the same vehemence, you're full of shit.

I don't see how it's wrong to oppose an organization for the practices it currently has. More than half of the items for which you said Scientology = Christianity involved the phrases "in the past" or "used to." If one's problem with a religion is specific objectionable practices, and a religious organization stops those practices...