California might get an independent re-districting committee

[Guardsman Bass]

Plan on California Ballot for New Districting Panel
By JENNIFER STEINHAUER

LOS ANGELES — Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger has spent more than $2 million from his campaign coffers to support a ballot proposition that could profoundly alter the composition, and perhaps the governing style, of the California Legislature.

The proposal, Proposition 11, while nowhere near as high-profile as the ballot measure that would ban same-sex marriage, is being marketed to Californians with nearly the same vigor.

Under the proposal, the responsibility for drawing the new boundaries for legislative districts — in both the Senate and the Assembly — would shift from the Legislature to a new 14-member commission comprising five Democrats, five Republicans and four independent or minor-party voters who would draw new maps every 10 years, corresponding with the census cycle.

California’s legislative districts, which resemble little oil spills when viewed on a map, are heavily gerrymandered. Not one of the 120 seats changed party hands in the last two elections, held two and four years ago.

The initiative, which was largely written by Common Cause and the AARP, is supported by Mr. Schwarzenegger, various former state officials and the League of Women Voters.

Opponents include the state’s Democratic Party, which dominates the Legislature and whose leaders feel the measure favors Republicans, and a union of corrections officers that has long been an opponent of Mr. Schwarzenegger.

The California Legislature is largely split between the most liberal branches of the state’s Democrats and its more conservative Republicans. As such, the Legislature often has great difficulty passing substantive legislation and struggles each year to approve a budget.

This year, the Legislature broke all budget deadline records, yet still failed to cover the state’s fiscal needs through next July. A special session will be held next month to deal with the shortfall.

“Under the current system,” said Janis Hirohama, the president of the League of Women Voters of California, “we see legislators are not accountable to the voters.”

Supporters of the proposition have raised about $14 million — including $2.5 million donated by Mr. Schwarzenegger — to market the initiative in television and radio advertisements throughout the state. Opponents have put together less than $1 million.

“Redistricting reform is something the governor has thought was necessary for California since he was elected,” said a Schwarzenegger spokeswoman, Julie Soderlund. “A system where politicians pick their own voters is not fair at all.”

An adviser to the California Democratic Party, Bob Mulholland, said Mr. Schwarzenegger supported the proposition only “because he thinks it would help Republicans.”

The process for choosing commission members would be complex. A panel of three state auditors would narrow the applicant pool to 60, of which the four leaders of the Legislature would be allowed to strike up to 24. From the remaining names, the state auditor would randomly draw those of eight commissioners, who would select the final six commissioners from those remaining in the pool.

A poll of 1,186 likely voters released last week by the Public Policy Institute of California found 41 percent favored the measure and 34 percent opposed it, which means a large number of people have not made up their minds. The margin of sampling error was plus or minus three percentage points.

In 2005, Mr. Schwarzenegger pushed an initiative that would have given the power to draw Congressional districts to a panel of retired judges; it lost badly at the ballot box.

Personally, I hope this passes - and it might, amidst the sound and fury being generated by Proposition 8 (which makes me wonder if this was deliberate on Schwarzeneggar's part - sending a major changing effort like this at a time when a massive culture war fight was drawing all the political oxygen). It's always bothered me that state legislatures were in charge of re-drawing the legislatural boundaries every 10 years, since they obviously have an incentive to create districts that promote their own presence in office. Hell, before Baker v. Carr, they did exactly that; Baker v. Carr happened because Tennessee hadn't re-districted in 61 years, which meant that urban areas were grossly under-represented, and they couldn't get the legislature to change that.

[Darth Fanboy]

Marketed with vigor my ass. I've seen next to nothing for prop 11. Each side for Props 7, 8, 9, and 10 are getting the word out far more.

[Guardsman Bass]

Marketed with vigor my ass. I've seen next to nothing for prop 11. Each side for Props 7, 8, 9, and 10 are getting the word out far more.

Well, I guess $2 million is small change when the amount of money being thrown around in the Proposition 8 fight is more than $25 million on each side before the latest estimates come in. But then, maybe that's the point; perhaps Schwarzeneggar is hoping that people will simply pass the re-districting proposition without controversy.

[Sea Skimmer]

My god do they need some kind of reform on the issue, nothing could be worse then the way things already are. Just take a look at the following map from 2002 to get an idea. 'oil spills' certainly is an accurate way of putting it.
http://www.calvoter.org/voter/maps/stat ... ngress.pdf

[Guardsman Bass]

To add -

Another reason why I want to see this happen is because I've seen what a basically a one-party-dominant state does to voters of the other party when they have dominance in the state legislature. After Representative Jim Matheson won the 2nd Congressional District here in Utah in 2000 by a large margin (a district that has centered around Salt Lake County for a long time, and includes an area that is traditionally linked by local history, the economy, and so forth), the local Republicans in the state legislature decided to wipe him out and effectively disenfranchise all the liberals in Salt Lake County on the federal level at the same time. So they took his Salt Lake County boundary, split off the more liberal western half and dumped it into the third congressional district (where it would be too small to have any effect on Republican dominance there), then attached the more conservative southeastern part of Salt Lake County and the now-rump northeastern liberal part by a narrow Utah County corridor to virtually the entire bottom half of the fucking state - an area with little direct economic, traditional, cultural, and such connections to the Salt Lake County people (who turned out in droves to make sure that Matheson didn't get knocked out). Matheson barely survived the 2002 race, and since then he's been a super-DINO to stay in office.

[Guardsman Bass]

Of course, it must have been mere convenience that the Utah legislature connected Matheson's new district to the more-conservative-than-god southern half of the state (and believe it or not, I actually went to a panel on gerrymandering where a Republican senator honestly tried to defend this).

In any case, this is why I hope this passes in California.

[Guardsman Bass]

My god do they need some kind of reform on the issue, nothing could be worse then the way things already are. Just take a look at the following map from 2002 to get an idea. 'oil spills' certainly is an accurate way of putting it.
http://www.calvoter.org/voter/maps/stat ... ngress.pdf

It kind of makes you wonder who thought it was a good idea for the people whose jobs depend on the boundaries either staying where they are or enhancing their leads (or, when they have a one-party state, wiping out the representation of the opposite party) to be in charge of setting up the boundaries of their own offices.

[Sea Skimmer]

It kind of makes you wonder who thought it was a good idea for the people whose jobs depend on the boundaries either staying where they are or enhancing their leads (or, when they have a one-party state, wiping out the representation of the opposite party) to be in charge of setting up the boundaries of their own offices.

It probably wasn't one idea at one time, no doubt it evolved over time as the state population grew, and at the hands of those same people who are in office and want to stay that way.

Man, I’d quite believed it until looked up this map, but I’ve heard that in California some voting dissects have chunks which are connected by something a tenuous as a 10 foot wide bike path… for a distance of several miles. Its clear to me now that that’s probably not even the worst example of what’s going on.

[Robert Treder]

Pretty sure I'll be voting for this, but I'm gonna vote this Wednesday, so I'll do all my final research then.

Although I haven't read all the nitty-gritty details, I think I preferred the previous redistricting measure that was offered (and failed) as its panel of redistricters was made up of some retired judges, whereas this one's panel has been described as being made up of democrats and republicans ... which doesn't seem quite as impartial to me, but who knows.

But I don't get too caught up on trying to find a perfect measure; I'm fairly certain none exists. If it's in the right direction, that's good enough. It always irks me to see like the Sierra Club or somebody saying, "Don't vote for this measure which furthers our cause, it doesn't go far enough!" How do you know how long it will be before you get another one on the ballot, and who's to say that it will be any better? Whatever.

[Medic]

My god do they need some kind of reform on the issue, nothing could be worse then the way things already are. Just take a look at the following map from 2002 to get an idea. 'oil spills' certainly is an accurate way of putting it.
http://www.calvoter.org/voter/maps/stat ... ngress.pdf

And FYI, it's changed since that link. Both before and after it changed however, I happened to stay in the 52nd District, Duncan Hunter's old stomping ground and hopefully not his sons new one. (Duncan Hunter of Military Commissions Act of 2006 repute retired and his son, with a different middle initial, is running in his seat)

[Beowulf]

Well, I voted for Prop 11. The districts as they stand are far too crazy.

[Nova Andromeda]

You people supporting this sort of thing are fucking idiots! You want to make districting fair in Ca., but pay no thought to the fact that the Republican / conservative states are gerimandered worse in favor of Republicans and THEY certainly aren't going to get rid of gerimandering. Why is it you people constantly bend over backwards to give control of the gov. to Republicans?!?

[General Zod]

You people supporting this sort of thing are fucking idiots! You want to make districting fair in Ca., but pay no thought to the fact that the Republican / conservative states are gerimandered worse in favor of Republicans and THEY certainly aren't going to get rid of gerimandering. Why is it you people constantly bend over backwards to give control of the gov. to Republicans?!?

Was there some kind of point somewhere in this bleating? How the fuck is forming an independent bipartisan committee to draw the district maps giving control to the Republicans?

[Beowulf]

You people supporting this sort of thing are fucking idiots! You want to make districting fair in Ca., but pay no thought to the fact that the Republican / conservative states are gerimandered worse in favor of Republicans and THEY certainly aren't going to get rid of gerimandering. Why is it you people constantly bend over backwards to give control of the gov. to Republicans?!?

Was there some kind of point somewhere in this bleating? How the fuck is forming an independent bipartisan committee to draw the district maps giving control to the Republicans?

If the Democrats aren't in control, then obviously the Rethuglikkkans are in control.

[Ekiqa]

You people supporting this sort of thing are fucking idiots! You want to make districting fair in Ca., but pay no thought to the fact that the Republican / conservative states are gerimandered worse in favor of Republicans and THEY certainly aren't going to get rid of gerimandering. Why is it you people constantly bend over backwards to give control of the gov. to Republicans?!?

What you guys need to do is form what we have here in Canada. An independent elections agency that operates the elections itself, without any partisan infighting. We don't have people kicked off the voter rolls. The districts are automatically adjusted after every census, with new seats added all the time. It was formed by an act of government, that clearly lays out what it can and cannot do.

[Nova Andromeda]

You people supporting this sort of thing are fucking idiots! You want to make districting fair in Ca., but pay no thought to the fact that the Republican / conservative states are gerimandered worse in favor of Republicans and THEY certainly aren't going to get rid of gerimandering. Why is it you people constantly bend over backwards to give control of the gov. to Republicans?!?

What you guys need to do is form what we have here in Canada. An independent elections agency that operates the elections itself, without any partisan infighting. We don't have people kicked off the voter rolls. The districts are automatically adjusted after every census, with new seats added all the time. It was formed by an act of government, that clearly lays out what it can and cannot do.

Like every other gov. institution in the U.S. the election system is badly broken. I'd love to see an independant and fair districting system (or no districting system at all). However, the idea of creating 'fair' districting systems only (or mostly) in Democratic / 'liberal' states is idiotic in the extreme! Sadly, this thread is testament to how dumb the average voter is (assuming I haven't missed some provision in the law preventing the above exploit).

[General Zod]

Like every other gov. institution in the U.S. the election system is badly broken. I'd love to see an independant and fair districting system (or no districting system at all). However, the idea of creating 'fair' districting systems only (or mostly) in Democratic / 'liberal' states is idiotic in the extreme! Sadly, this thread is testament to how dumb the average voter is (assuming I haven't missed some provision in the law preventing the above exploit).

Why don't you actually explain why it's a bad idea instead of just screeching that it's stupid and expecting everyone to treat your word as though it's some kind of profound revelation?

[Sea Skimmer]

You people supporting this sort of thing are fucking idiots! You want to make districting fair in Ca., but pay no thought to the fact that the Republican / conservative states are gerimandered worse in favor of Republicans and THEY certainly aren't going to get rid of gerimandering. Why is it you people constantly bend over backwards to give control of the gov. to Republicans?!?

Okay, prove its worse in republican states or shutup. The proposal in any case is for a fucking commission split half and half between democrats and republicans, and the relevant laws are set by individual fucking states.

Like every other gov. institution in the U.S. the election system is badly broken. I'd love to see an independant and fair districting system (or no districting system at all). However, the idea of creating 'fair' districting systems only (or mostly) in Democratic / 'liberal' states is idiotic in the extreme! Sadly, this thread is testament to how dumb the average voter is (assuming I haven't missed some provision in the law preventing the above exploit).

Yeah you certainly are showing how fucking retard and polarized the average idiot voter is, good job.

[CaptainChewbacca]

Similar to the 'gerrymandered republican states', California is a ridiculously gerrymandered democrat state. The fact that such republican states exist doesn't excuse the existence of gerrymandering in California, nor can it be used to justify the practice. I certainly don't support 'only dems playing fair', as Nova is shrieking about.

[CaptainChewbacca]

edit: Hit submit too soon.

My own town, for example, is in California 18th. We used to be in a Republican distric, but they redrew the line around our town to split us into the 18th. The result being Modesto's very large population has no influence whatsoever on who represents the outlying communities east and north of town. We get lumped in with the commuter communities of the southeastern bay area, and get outvoted every time.

Take a look at this map and tell me that's an electoral district that makes regional or geographic sense.

[CmdrWilkens]

Dude if you want regionally gerrymandered take a look at my old district, MD-03:

[Surlethe]

Opponents include the state’s Democratic Party, which dominates the Legislature and whose leaders feel the measure favors Republicans, and a union of corrections officers that has long been an opponent of Mr. Schwarzenegger.

Fair elections favor the minority party, when the state has been so badly gerrymandered that no seat has changed party years in two election cycles? Do tell. That's like Steve Jobs whining that Obama's tax plan "favors poor people".

[Stark]

Due to issues like this, my state was basically sat on by a corrupt, dictatorial premier for ages - a guy so corrupt he used the police commissioner to pick up his payoffs. Re-sync electorates to population and looky-loo, the urban population is represented again!

[RedImperator]

I'm still baffled how SCOTUS could have ruled partisan gerrymandering constitutional. I've been saying for years it needs to be outlawed, by Constitutional amendment if need be. And Nova Andromeda, the proposition doesn't affect Congressional districts, so I don't see what you're screeching about. It will have no impact on the balance of power in Congress (frankly, even if it did, the Democrats are going to have a 50 seat majority, and losing a few gerrymandered seats from California won't hurt anything).

[Guardsman Bass]

What a Congress ought to do (but good luck getting it) is pass a bill cutting off all federal funding to states that don't have a nonpartisan or "split-partisan" committee that does re-districting. That way, you get around the idiots at the state level who are going to be gung-ho against anything that might threaten their little kingdoms without having to do the fight of a national level constitutional amendment.

You people supporting this sort of thing are fucking idiots! You want to make districting fair in Ca., but pay no thought to the fact that the Republican / conservative states are gerimandered worse in favor of Republicans and THEY certainly aren't going to get rid of gerimandering. Why is it you people constantly bend over backwards to give control of the gov. to Republicans?!?

Yeah, I'm such a fucking idiot for thinking that districts should actually be drawn along compact lines with strong cultural, historical, and economic connections as opposed to be splintered around to keep John K. Congresscritter in power in the state legislature for another two decades.