Your view on the legalization of marijuana

[ray245]

I've heard that marijuana has been an issue in some states in the US, where the penalty of using marijuana was lowered. In Netherlands, marijuana is legalised for recreational purpose. Bear in mind, we are not talking about using those drugs for medical purpose.

So perhaps members here can share their view on marijuana for recreational purpose, and should it be allowed in any nation?

[The Romulan Republic]

For recreational purposes, its a waste of time and money I'd say. Its also a risk, because the dealers will spike it with stuff like crystal meth in order to make it cheaper and more addictive.

Which is a very good reason for legalizing it. If its legal, its regulated. Also, perhaps it loses some of the whole rebelliousness appeal for teenagers. Aren't their stats which show fewer teens use it in the Netherlands?

So basically, I'm against using it in principle, but I believe it does more harm than good to ban it.

[Solauren]

Regulate it, tax it, require a liscence (like liqiour) to sell it.

Instead of spening millions on enforcement of anti-drug laws, legal procescution, and incareration, you're now generating millions (or more) in tax revenue and related liscening fees.

[ArcturusMengsk]

Regulate it, tax it, require a liscence (like liqiour) to sell it.

Yep. In addition to generating revenue and lowering crime rates, it will cut back on prison overcrowding and move us that much closer to genuine personal liberty.

[Flagg]

What's been said already. I'd also add that there should be heavy advertising and 'propaganda' campaigns for the use of vaporizers and oral consumption as an alternative to smoking it, as those are safe ways to use.

[PhilosopherOfSorts]

Yes, marijuana was outlawed due to pressure from the pharmaceutical, petrochemical, and pulp paper industries, as a means to eliminate a competitor, not because of any harm it does. Regardless of that, prohibition just doesn't work, it didn't with alcohol in the twenties and thirties, and it doesn't with marijuana today. I think that the police have (or rather, should have) more important things to do than put peaceful, non-violent marijuana smokers in already overcrowded prisons. Add in the ridiculous sentences that get handed down for possession -- get busted with one ounce of marijuana and you can do more time than for aggravated assault -- and you have no good reason not to legalize.

Its also a risk, because the dealers will spike it with stuff like crystal meth in order to make it cheaper and more addictive.

I was told about this possibility back in school, but in eleven years of pot smoking I've never encountered anything like it. Given that, around here anyway, anything you could lace the pot with is more expensive, I think that's misinformation.

[ArcturusMengsk]

Given that, around here anyway, anything you could lace the pot with is more expensive, I think that's misinformation.

Right you are. I live in the immediate vicinity of Missouri, methamphetamine capital of the world, and I can assure you (not from first-hand experience, mind) that crystal meth is much more expensive, relatively speaking, that mere weed.

[Gandalf]

I imagine that legalising marijuana would also help production of hemp related products like ropes and durable garments.

That's definitely a bonus.

[cosmicalstorm]

What are the odds it will ever happen though?
From what I gather almost every politician is, at least publicly, against it, and it dosent look like many votes can be caught by arguing in favor of it.

[Bounty]

Marijuana is a stupid waste of money, but so is fighting it especially when there is precedent for other drugs being legal and taxed - tobacco and alcohol. I wholeheartedly support the legalisation of medicinal marijuana and wouldn't oppose lifting the ban on recreational use, though I can't say I'd fight for it tooth and nail. I certainly wouldn't want police resources being wasted on some high school kid selling pot to his buddies.

[Duckie]

What are the odds it will ever happen though?
From what I gather almost every politician is, at least publicly, against it, and it dosent look like many votes can be caught by arguing in favor of it.

The states of Michigan and Massachusetts just voted to decriminialise possession of one or less ounces of Marijuana for medical purposes.

I'm unsure if this means obtaining it is still illegal: A store would by nature have to have more than 1 ounce to sell it to people, and a store can't use it for medical purposes, but it's on the way in the liberal parts of the US.

[Ender]

My concern is what the tobacco companies would do with it if/when it became legal on a large scale. Look at all the utter shit they add to cigarettes. So I'd like to see some regulations on what the hell goes into it if it is made legal.

[The Original Nex]

What are the odds it will ever happen though?
From what I gather almost every politician is, at least publicly, against it, and it dosent look like many votes can be caught by arguing in favor of it.

The states of Michigan and Massachusetts just voted to decriminialise possession of one or less ounces of Marijuana for medical purposes.

I'm unsure if this means obtaining it is still illegal: A store would by nature have to have more than 1 ounce to sell it to people, and a store can't use it for medical purposes, but it's on the way in the liberal parts of the US.

Only MI stipulates it must be medical. The MA proposal applies to all marijuana less than an ounce. In MA at least, it's been decriminalized, not made legal, so you can get fined if you're caught with less than an ounce, but you won't have any criminal charges filed.

[Hillary]

Proper regulation of all drugs is the only sensible route to take.

Prohibition merely hands the supply of dangerous substances over to the gangsters. The sooner Govts realise that this is a public health issue, rather than a criminal law issue, the quicker we can address the problems associated with drug use.

The decriminalisation measures passed by MI & MA do not deal with the health issues one bit, although it does at least show some acceptance that treating drug users as criminals per se is a ridiculous policy.

[Count Chocula]

Better watch it guys, you're starting to sound like those darn Libertarians!

Ditto the prior posters. Legalize it, fit it into the existing alcohol distribution, tax and revenue systems. Give farmers something to grow besides tobacco in states like VA; besides, marijuana is arguably less harmful to the smoker than cigarettes.

There's precedent; up until 1985, the drug MDMA (now known in its diluted MDA form as Ecstasy) was available and legal. IIRC, they were selling for $5 a pop and bars made their money selling $4 bottles of water .

[ArcturusMengsk]

Better watch it guys, you're starting to sound like those darn Libertarians!

Err, no, we're starting to sound like liberals. 'Libertarians' are Bob Barr-style social conservatives who champion 'state's rights' because it is the most convenient way for them to enforce a segregationist social policy without seeming as domineering authoritarians. That they grudgingly accept the logical conclusion of this Confederate philosophy speaks well to their hard-headed consistency, but not to their values or intellectual rigor.

[Broomstick]

I imagine that legalising marijuana would also help production of hemp related products like ropes and durable garments.

Except that it wouldn't.

Marijuana suitable for rope (ignoring that we usually use synthetics for rope these days) and cloth is bred to emphasize the stem and its long fibers. Marijuana for drugs is bred to encourage luxuriant leaf growth. Two different varieties. It's like confusing sweet corn and popcorn - same plant, very different varieties.

That said - I could tolerate legalizing it, although keep it the fuck away from me personally because I am allergic to it and don't enjoy wheezing and gasping for breath. I'd want a strictly enforced ban against public smoking such as we have for tobacco but even more stringent because you shouldn't be imposing mind-altering substances on bystanders. Severe penalties, like real jail time, for driving while high or in similar situations. You want to use, fine, but do it responsibly and in a manner that won't hurt anyone else.

[Ender]

We should fight it, along with all recreational drug use. Going after the supply along won't work, though. We need to attack the demand. It seems the most realistic way to succeed at this is with education and an social stigma against it, probably engineered with the education program over the long term. Hire someone competent to design this education program so it doesn't become a joke to the kids.

The way we're fighting it right now isn't ideal, but legalizing it seems like a step in the wrong direction.

Is this a fakepost? Because otherwise I'm interested in your reasoning as to why all recreational drug use needs to be abolished. Yes, things like drunk driving are bad, but how do you go from that to prohibition? What does it matter if I enjoy going to a hooka bar every so often, or like a nice cuban cigar when I'm celebrating something?

[Hillary]

We should fight it, along with all recreational drug use. Going after the supply along won't work, though. We need to attack the demand. It seems the most realistic way to succeed at this is with education and an social stigma against it, probably engineered with the education program over the long term. Hire someone competent to design this education program so it doesn't become a joke to the kids.

The way we're fighting it right now isn't ideal, but legalizing it seems like a step in the wrong direction.

I totally agree that educating people about the dangers of drug use is a serious issue. However, prohibition doesn't work. It's never worked. As I said above, this is a public health issue, NOT a law enforcement one.

[Hillary]

I'd want a strictly enforced ban against public smoking such as we have for tobacco but even more stringent because you shouldn't be imposing mind-altering substances on bystanders.

Are you suggesting that tobacco has no effect on the mind? We simply have to stop this false differentiation between legal and illegal drugs. Alcohol and tobacco are NOT safer than many of the drugs that are currently illegal.

[RedImperator]

We should fight it, along with all recreational drug use. Going after the supply along won't work, though. We need to attack the demand. It seems the most realistic way to succeed at this is with education and an social stigma against it, probably engineered with the education program over the long term. Hire someone competent to design this education program so it doesn't become a joke to the kids.

The way we're fighting it right now isn't ideal, but legalizing it seems like a step in the wrong direction.

It's a concession to reality. I'm all for honest drug education (something we've been lacking in this country for almost eighty years), but you can't impose social stigmas from the top down, and if you don't legalize, you're still wasting billions of dollars and thousands of police hours, and ruining people's lives over a drug that, bluntly, isn't that harmful--certainly less harmful than alcohol. You can't even really make the case that prohibition has significantly driven down rates of use--there's no statistically significant difference between marijuana usage rates in states that have decriminalized and states that have stiff penalties on the books. The Netherlands, of all places, has a lower rate of teenage marijuana use than the United States.

From a utilitarian perspective, you'd do better just setting all that drug control money on fire. Conduct an honest education program, legalize and control the sale of the stuff, and collect the taxes. Christ knows the states need the money more than they need to stamp out marijuana use.

[ray245]

We should fight it, along with all recreational drug use. Going after the supply along won't work, though. We need to attack the demand. It seems the most realistic way to succeed at this is with education and an social stigma against it, probably engineered with the education program over the long term. Hire someone competent to design this education program so it doesn't become a joke to the kids.

The way we're fighting it right now isn't ideal, but legalizing it seems like a step in the wrong direction.

It's a concession to reality. I'm all for honest drug education (something we've been lacking in this country for almost eighty years), but you can't impose social stigmas from the top down, and if you don't legalize, you're still wasting billions of dollars and thousands of police hours, and ruining people's lives over a drug that, bluntly, isn't that harmful--certainly less harmful than alcohol. You can't even really make the case that prohibition has significantly driven down rates of use--there's no statistically significant difference between marijuana usage rates in states that have decriminalized and states that have stiff penalties on the books. The Netherlands, of all places, has a lower rate of teenage marijuana use than the United States.

From a utilitarian perspective, you'd do better just setting all that drug control money on fire. Conduct an honest education program, legalize and control the sale of the stuff, and collect the taxes. Christ knows the states need the money more than they need to stamp out marijuana use.

I don't think that bringing in other countries can help your case. I mean, every nation is different.

In Singapore, police enforcement and banning of drugs like marijuana can lower drug abuse to a very healthy level.

[salm]

Make it legal and treat it like alcohol. I want to hang out in the park and get high. Well it´s allready done widely and regularily but i´d rather do it legally.
Also make it legal in bars, on the way to bars and pretty much every where else. Like said before, treat it like alcohol.

Then invent a better fucking testing method. I don´t want to lose my drivers license just because these stupid tests aren´t accurate enough. They treat having smoked a joint two days ago the same as being high as a kite.

[Hillary]

I don't think that bringing in other countries can help your case. I mean, every nation is different.

In Singapore, police enforcement and banning of drugs like marijuana can lower drug abuse to a very healthy level.

The Netherlands is a rather more appropriate comparison than Singapore I would think.

Not that it's necessary to bring other countries into it at all. The US alcohol prohibition demonstrates the fact that the policy doesn't work. It led to gangsters running the supply and people drinking stronger concentrations of alcohol.

[Uraniun235]

Legalize the consumption, production, and exportation of marijuana.

I'm not a user myself, but I know Oregon would stand to make a lot of money and tax revenue off legal pot.

My concern is what the tobacco companies would do with it if/when it became legal on a large scale. Look at all the utter shit they add to cigarettes. So I'd like to see some regulations on what the hell goes into it if it is made legal.

There's always a counter to that though, and that's to grow your own or buy from a local producer you can trust. It's not nearly as hard to manufacture as tobacco.