Miami activist thinks they are above reality / the law

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Miami activist thinks they are above reality / the law

Post by Solauren »

Miami activist moves homeless people illegally into foreclosed houses
By Tamara Lush, The Associated Press

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MIAMI - Max Rameau delivers his sales pitch like a pro. "All tile floor!" he says during a recent showing. "And the living room, wow! It has great blinds."


But in nearly every other respect, he is unlike any real estate agent you've ever met. He is unshaven, drives a beat-up car and wears grungy cut-off sweat pants. He also breaks into the homes he shows. And his clients don't have a dime for a down payment.


Rameau is an activist who has been executing a bailout plan of his own around Miami's empty streets: He is helping homeless people illegally move into foreclosed homes.


"We're matching homeless people with people-less homes," he said with a grin.


Rameau and a group of like-minded advocates formed Take Back the Land, which also helps the new "tenants" with secondhand furniture, cleaning supplies and yard upkeep. So far, he has moved six families into foreclosed homes and has nine on a waiting list.


"I think everyone deserves a home," said Rameau, who said he takes no money from his work with the homeless. "Homeless people across the country are squatting in empty homes. The question is: Is this going to be done out of desperation or with direction?"


With the housing market collapsing, squatting in foreclosed homes is believed to be on the rise around the country. But squatters usually move in on their own, at night, when no one is watching. Rarely is the phenomenon as organized as Rameau's effort to "liberate" foreclosed homes.


Florida - especially the Miami area, with its once-booming condo market - is one of the hardest-hit states in the housing crisis, largely because of overbuilding and speculation. In September, Florida had the country's second-highest foreclosure rate, with one out of every 178 homes in default, according to Realty Trac, an online marketer of foreclosed properties. Only Nevada's rate was higher.


Like other cities, Miami is trying to ease the problem. Officials launched a foreclosure-prevention program to help homeowners who have fallen behind on their mortgage, with loans of up to $7,500 per household.


The city also recently passed an ordinance requiring owners of abandoned homes - whether an individual or bank - to register those properties with the city so police can better monitor them.


Elsewhere around the country, advocates in Cleveland are working with the city to allow homeless people to legally move into and repair empty, dilapidated houses. In Atlanta, some property owners pay homeless people to live in abandoned homes as a security measure.


In early November, Rameau drove a woman and her 18-month old daughter to a ranch home on a quiet street lined with swaying tropical foliage. Marie Pierre, 39, has been sleeping at a shelter with her toddler. She said she had been homeless off and on for a year, after losing various jobs and getting evicted from several apartments.


"My heart is heavy. I've lived in a lot of different shelters, a lot of bad situations," Pierre said. "In my own home, I'm free. I'm a human being now."


Rameau chose the house for Pierre, in part, because he knew its history. A man had bought the home in the city's predominantly Haitian neighbourhood in 2006 for $430,000, then rented it to Rameau's friends. Those friends were evicted in October because the homeowner had stopped paying his mortgage and the property went into foreclosure.


Rameau, who makes his living as a computer consultant, said he is doing the owner a favour. Before Pierre moved in, someone stole the air conditioning unit from the backyard, and it was only a matter of time before thieves took the copper pipes and wiring, he said.


"Within a couple of months, this place would be stripped and drug dealers would be living here," he said, carrying a giant plastic garbage bag filled with Pierre's clothes into the home.


He said he is not scared of getting arrested.

"There's a real need here, and there's a disconnect between the need and the law," he said. "Being arrested is just one of the potential factors in doing this."

Miami spokeswoman Kelly Penton said city officials did not know Rameau was moving homeless into empty buildings - but they are also not stopping him.

"There are no actions on the city's part to stop this," she said in an email. "It is important to note that if people trespass into private property, it is up to the property owner to take action to remove those individuals."

Pierre herself could be charged with trespassing, vandalism or breaking and entering. Rameau assured her he has lawyers who will represent her free.

Two weeks after Pierre moved in, she came home to find the locks had been changed, probably by the property's manager. Everything inside - her food, clothes and family photos - was gone.

But late last month, with Rameau's help, she got back inside and has put Christmas decorations on the front door.

So far, police have not gotten involved.
So, let's see. This person is causing cases of...

Trespassing (the squaters, and any visitors)
Damage of Property (the locks for the houses)
Destruction of Property (the locks for the houses)
Unauthorized Alteration of Property (new locks, alterations the squaters make)
Tax Evasion (Property taxes)
And probably theft (Water and Electrical Utilities at minimum, but telephone and cable are possible)
Conspiracy to commit above

And possibly
Health Violations - if the house in unsafe (unlikely in anyway that's visually apparent)
Contributing to the deliquency of minors (whenever a kid moved into, or even visited the house)


Also, in Florida, is it legal to shot trespassers on site? If so, you could argueable add conspiracy to inflicted bodily harm, or worse. (Hopefully, no one gets shot over this).


Sure, I agree, it would be nice if the houses could be used for something, besides druggies moving in or teenagers partying, but this is NOT the way to do it.
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Re: Miami activist thinks they are above reality / the law

Post by gizmojumpjet »

The damage to these homes will almost certainly go far beyond the damage to the locks. There's no motivation to take good of a home you didn't pay for and can simply walk away from at will.
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Re: Miami activist thinks they are above reality / the law

Post by Sidewinder »

So these people are saying, "Just take whatever you need! It's someone else's property? Fuck 'em! If they're not paying for it, why should we?" Anyone reminded of Voluntaryist and his Hall of Shameful claims regarding Libertarianist societies?
Also, in Florida, is it legal to shot trespassers on site?
If the police fail to enforce laws against trespassing and theft, you can guarantee people will stockpile guns and ammo to defend their personal property, and say, "Fuck off! Don't you have something better to do, like arrest the trespassers and thieves who're trying to take away my things, and forcing me to buy guns to defend myself and my property?" to the police if they object.
Please do not make Americans fight giant monsters.

Those gun nuts do not understand the meaning of "overkill," and will simply use weapon after weapon of mass destruction (WMD) until the monster is dead, or until they run out of weapons.

They have more WMD than there are monsters for us to fight. (More insanity here.)
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Re: Miami activist thinks they are above reality / the law

Post by salm »

gizmojumpjet wrote:The damage to these homes will almost certainly go far beyond the damage to the locks. There's no motivation to take good of a home you didn't pay for and can simply walk away from at will.
Actually there are examples where squatting works quite well. The Georg-von-Rauch-Haus which was abandoned in 1970 for example. In 1971 50 or so people moved in, the cops didn´t manage to kick them out and since then a whole bunch of people live in it. There are other examples which show that squatting has worked over long periods of time.
And frankly, i can´t see a reason why people shouldn´t use homes if they´re not inhabited and the people are homeless.
If you can´t afford shelter and the government won´t support you, you just have to get it that way.
Having masses of homeless people seems more damaging to society than a couple of broken locks.
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Re: Miami activist thinks they are above reality / the law

Post by Sidewinder »

salm wrote:Having masses of homeless people seems more damaging to society than a couple of broken locks.
And this is better than an anarchic society in which people stockpile guns to defend their property because the police aren't defending it?
Please do not make Americans fight giant monsters.

Those gun nuts do not understand the meaning of "overkill," and will simply use weapon after weapon of mass destruction (WMD) until the monster is dead, or until they run out of weapons.

They have more WMD than there are monsters for us to fight. (More insanity here.)
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Re: Miami activist thinks they are above reality / the law

Post by gizmojumpjet »

salm wrote:Actually there are examples where squatting works quite well. The Georg-von-Rauch-Haus which was abandoned in 1970 for example. In 1971 50 or so people moved in, the cops didn´t manage to kick them out and since then a whole bunch of people live in it. There are other examples which show that squatting has worked over long periods of time.
It's possible you could convince me that homeless people won't be irresponsible tenants, but it's going to take a lot more than vague anecdotes.

salm wrote:And frankly, i can´t see a reason why people shouldn´t use homes if they´re not inhabited and the people are homeless.
If you can´t afford shelter and the government won´t support you, you just have to get it that way.
Having masses of homeless people seems more damaging to society than a couple of broken locks.
You can't see a reason why people shouldn't break into and live in homes that don't belong to them without permission? None at all?
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Re: Miami activist thinks they are above reality / the law

Post by Aaron »

Sidewinder wrote: And this is better than an anarchic society in which people stockpile guns to defend their property because the police aren't defending it?
Do you honestly think that banks are going to start shooting squaters? At the most they will hire a security company to post a couple guys inside.
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Re: Miami activist thinks they are above reality / the law

Post by The Duchess of Zeon »

It's a personal form of Autogestion, also the Recovered Factories movement in Argentina, which has seen laid-off workers invade, take over, and open back up over 200 businesses... Successfully. I see no reason why defaulted properties shouldn't be seized from the original owners, i.e., the banks (who have after all destroyed the American economy, and yet are getting handed billions of dollars for having done so!), and handed over to people who can put them to good use. The same goes for closed factories, it would be nice to see a Recovered Factories movement in the United States, that could change the face of the corporate world here for the better, though of course the big capitalists wouldn't stand for it out of sheer terror, so there'd be fighting over the issue.

I do, regardless, favour legislation that any property which is functionally abandoned--not being used for anything productive--can be claimed by any group able to put it to productive use, and that would also make it illegal for factories in such circumstances to be sold to people who'd tear them down and redevelop them, the replacing use has to be one that employs the same number of people or else the Recovery of the Factory by the workers will be recognized. This will force big corporations to either "use it or lose", creating a terra nullius like in international law. And of course it would create a healthy bit of fear in the big corporate fat cats.

I admit the homes issue is more complex, but generally anyone who is going to provide a roof over the heads of the homeless should be allowed to seize foreclosed homes that are sitting empty, it's just that I think it would be a lot better for a government agency or charity to seize the homes and then run them properly as extremely low income housing for the poor (some nominal fee, like twenty-five or fifty dollars a month + crucially, the inhabitants being fully responsible for all maintenance, which would engender responsibility).
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Re: Miami activist thinks they are above reality / the law

Post by Ziggy Stardust »

Sidewinder wrote:If the police fail to enforce laws against trespassing and theft, you can guarantee people will stockpile guns and ammo to defend their personal property, and say, "Fuck off! Don't you have something better to do, like arrest the trespassers and thieves who're trying to take away my things, and forcing me to buy guns to defend myself and my property?" to the police if they object.
Where are you getting this absurd idea that the actions of this "activist" (whom I by no means endorse) are going to result in the police for some reason abandoning their posts and society collapsing into anarchy? We are talking about MIAMI here. The police have MUCH better things to worry about than homeless people living in an ABANDONED building.

And besides which, squatter's rights is a big movement in both Europe and Asia. For the most part, they do take care of the buildings they move into, because they don't want to live in squalor. That's the whole point. You have to realize squatters are rarely just one or two people living in a building, it is generally a larger group, which means that destructive individuals are generally outnumbered and forced to leave if they mess things up too much.
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Re: Miami activist thinks they are above reality / the law

Post by Coyote »

I'm also of the opinion that the banks should allow homeless people to move in; after all not all homeless people are tinfoil-hatter types. The banks let homeless squatters in, they get a bit of a tax break, maybe, for providing to the community.

Otherwise, if they refuse to let people live there, then they get billed for the extra man-hours police have to put in to patrol the empty neighborhoods that the banks pushed development of; and if a fire happens in a forclosed (abandoned) home as things deteriorate, then the banks get billed for that, too.

Give it to squatters and have them sign a responsibility agreement to provide upkeep and obey the law, and if they can live there for "XYZ" period of time without incident, they can work out a deal with the bank for ownership or at least a rent.
Something about Libertarianism always bothered me. Then one day, I realized what it was:
Libertarian philosophy can be boiled down to the phrase, "Work Will Make You Free."


In Libertarianism, there is no Government, so the Bosses are free to exploit the Workers.
In Communism, there is no Government, so the Workers are free to exploit the Bosses.
So in Libertarianism, man exploits man, but in Communism, its the other way around!

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Re: Miami activist thinks they are above reality / the law

Post by salm »

gizmojumpjet wrote: It's possible you could convince me that homeless people won't be irresponsible tenants, but it's going to take a lot more than vague anecdotes.
It´s hard to find English websites about the Bethanien (aka Georg-von-Rauch-Haus) but here´s some information. link
www.bethanien.de wrote: ...In the meantime, the building's medical history has come to an end, and Künstlerhaus Bethanien GmbH looks after 25 studios, 3 exhibition studios, and a media lab. It is a project workshop, an event location, and the publisher of a series of ambitious catalogue publications as well as an art magazine.


For some reason i can´t copy and paste the text from the following webpage. Just go there and look under Europe and Germany:

link

You can't see a reason why people shouldn't break into and live in homes that don't belong to them without permission? None at all?
In the current situation, no. Loads of people have lost their homes and can´t afford to get shelter. They´re forced to be homeless and live in tents. The houses belong to banks who use them for nothing else than financial reasons. People having homes is more important than banks having money.
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Re: Miami activist thinks they are above reality / the law

Post by Pablo Sanchez »

Coyote wrote:I'm also of the opinion that the banks should allow homeless people to move in; after all not all homeless people are tinfoil-hatter types. The banks let homeless squatters in, they get a bit of a tax break, maybe, for providing to the community.
Without the structure of a renter's lease it's a very difficult legal issue for banks. What's to stop squatters from giving false names and then completely stripping the house of all its wiring and metal fixtures for sale as scrap? A substantial amount of money can be made at this, and the bank would eat the cost. I agree that it's insane for banks to turn people out of houses, just so they can lock them up and then eat a net loss, but turning them over to whoever wants them isn't a good plan.

Rather, when it became clear that this was going to be a housing disaster of national proportions, banks should have tried to come up with plans to minimize their losses and keep people in the houses, because taking a 50% loss on the value of a mortgage is better than eating that 100%. But, of course, the plan ended up being "We'll fuck this up as bad as we can, then tell the government it has to give us lots of free money."
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Re: Miami activist thinks they are above reality / the law

Post by KrauserKrauser »

Sweet, I hope all of you support my idea of going in and essentially stealing the closest foreclosed home I can find. I mean, I may be able to afford a home, but it would be better and cheaper for me if I just stole one the bank isn't using.

Oh they can steal because they are poor? So if I quit contributing to society I no longer have to be subject to their laws? Sweet, sign me up!

Then if they had any cash lying around in their accounts, maybe I can steal that too.
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Re: Miami activist thinks they are above reality / the law

Post by Coyote »

Pablo Sanchez wrote:Without the structure of a renter's lease it's a very difficult legal issue for banks. What's to stop squatters from giving false names and then completely stripping the house of all its wiring and metal fixtures for sale as scrap? A substantial amount of money can be made at this, and the bank would eat the cost. I agree that it's insane for banks to turn people out of houses, just so they can lock them up and then eat a net loss, but turning them over to whoever wants them isn't a good plan.

Oh, I know, some sort of biometric recordings and other measures would have to be taken into account, something I'm sure the banks aren't eager to absorb the cost of --not without the help of government, and of course the civil-liberties people would come unglued at the notion of biometric data being gathered so that a promissory note can be had from the "curators to be".

Basically, I'm thinking of a formalized "house-sitting" plan with an option to eventually be granted some sort of easy term lease provided the squatters are responsible, provide upkeep, etc. But since this would be "socialism!!!11" it'll never happen, so I'm not really trying to provide much detail. :?
Something about Libertarianism always bothered me. Then one day, I realized what it was:
Libertarian philosophy can be boiled down to the phrase, "Work Will Make You Free."


In Libertarianism, there is no Government, so the Bosses are free to exploit the Workers.
In Communism, there is no Government, so the Workers are free to exploit the Bosses.
So in Libertarianism, man exploits man, but in Communism, its the other way around!

If all you want to do is have some harmless, mindless fun, go H3RE INST3ADZ0RZ!!
Grrr! Fight my Brute, you pansy!
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Re: Miami activist thinks they are above reality / the law

Post by Coyote »

KrauserKrauser wrote:Sweet, I hope all of you support my idea of going in and essentially stealing the closest foreclosed home I can find. I mean, I may be able to afford a home, but it would be better and cheaper for me if I just stole one the bank isn't using.

Oh they can steal because they are poor? So if I quit contributing to society I no longer have to be subject to their laws? Sweet, sign me up!

Then if they had any cash lying around in their accounts, maybe I can steal that too.
Well, in my case I'd see a formalized plan with limits and responsibilities that would be legally binding, with the squatter sproviding caretaker services for the bank's property, with the property serving as potential incentive... but actually, in my super-perfect world the problem would be moot because people who were already making their mortgage payments at the earlier, pre-adjusted rate would have simply been allowed to stay at that payment level so they'd not be evicted in the first place.

The problem is, American businesses don't look beyond th enext financial quarter, it seems. They want the poor bastards to pay the Big Rate, right now, and if they can't the bank'll unass them without thinking about the aggregate effects-- abandoned houses, property maintenance, property value loss, and expanded workload of police and fire responding to problems on what is now bank property... a smart bank would have realized that it's worth their while to let the people stay and pay at the lower introductory rates than it was to foreclose and lose all income, lose property value, and face economic loss elsewhere as tax revenues plummet as public service demands expand.

But then, I'm one of the people that blame the banks for approving high-riskers in the first place; I'm not blaming the high-risk buyers for simply taking what was offered to them...
Something about Libertarianism always bothered me. Then one day, I realized what it was:
Libertarian philosophy can be boiled down to the phrase, "Work Will Make You Free."


In Libertarianism, there is no Government, so the Bosses are free to exploit the Workers.
In Communism, there is no Government, so the Workers are free to exploit the Bosses.
So in Libertarianism, man exploits man, but in Communism, its the other way around!

If all you want to do is have some harmless, mindless fun, go H3RE INST3ADZ0RZ!!
Grrr! Fight my Brute, you pansy!
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Re: Miami activist thinks they are above reality / the law

Post by The Duchess of Zeon »

KrauserKrauser wrote:Sweet, I hope all of you support my idea of going in and essentially stealing the closest foreclosed home I can find. I mean, I may be able to afford a home, but it would be better and cheaper for me if I just stole one the bank isn't using.
As long as you're willing to share it with anyone else who needs housing, sure (and I'm not being a hypocrite. For the past two weeks someone I've never met in person before in my life before the day he showed up to live with us has been living in Amy and I's apartment, he just got a place of his own here today, so he stayed as long as he needed to).
Oh they can steal because they are poor? So if I quit contributing to society I no longer have to be subject to their laws? Sweet, sign me up!
"Theft" is less ethically unacceptable if nobody is using the property in question.
Then if they had any cash lying around in their accounts, maybe I can steal that too.
Since that cash is still doing work, from an economic perspective, no, that wouldn't be acceptable.

Your support for capitalism in light of current circumstances is.. Unfortunate, though, not surprising.
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Re: Miami activist thinks they are above reality / the law

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While this may be illegal, and with very good reason, it becomes challenging to find a moral problem with the homeless seeking shelter in a foreclosed home. It becomes different when a claim is made that they therefore own it, but I don't know that, for instance, I would report if I saw it happen.
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Re: Miami activist thinks they are above reality / the law

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Coyote wrote: I'm not blaming the high-risk buyers for simply taking what was offered to them...
maybe too far off-topic, but why not? Just because someone offers you something, does not mean that you are obliged - or halfway smart - to take it. No matter what blandishments a banker throws my way, I am still the sole person responsible for seeing that I don't take on more debt than I can service.
The Duchess wrote: As long as you're willing to share it with anyone else who needs housing, sure (and I'm not being a hypocrite. For the past two weeks someone I've never met in person before in my life before the day he showed up to live with us has been living in Amy and I's apartment, he just got a place of his own here today, so he stayed as long as he needed to).
Seems like your voluntary decision to invite someone to cohabit in a property for which you are paying <> someone moving unasked into a property to which they have zero contractual or financial connection, at all.
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Re: Miami activist thinks they are above reality / the law

Post by Erik von Nein »

There's over 44,000 homeless people in my county alone, over a third of which are children. That some essentially abandoned homes are being used for shelter for people who have none aside from probably a car doesn't in the least bit bother me. There are shelters in my city, for example, but families who stay there have reportered that they're unsafe to stay in for too long and usually leave quickly. It's not as if these people don't have jobs, either, since they still usually have some income. It's just that, at the end of the day their choice is between rent and food.

Not that I think these people are going about this too legally. If anything the banks themselves should be brought in on the whole deal to write off as charitable donations for people who need housing. Hey, good PR and tax breaks, sounds like something any company should love.
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Re: Miami activist thinks they are above reality / the law

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Qwerty 42 wrote:While this may be illegal, and with very good reason, it becomes challenging to find a moral problem with the homeless seeking shelter in a foreclosed home. It becomes different when a claim is made that they therefore own it, but I don't know that, for instance, I would report if I saw it happen.
The moral problem is that they are breaking into those homes.

It ceases to be a problem if they are allowed in by the owner.
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Re: Miami activist thinks they are above reality / the law

Post by Broomstick »

The Duchess of Zeon wrote: I do, regardless, favour legislation that any property which is functionally abandoned--not being used for anything productive--can be claimed by any group able to put it to productive use
Who the hell gets to decide what is and isn't "being used for anything productive"?

I have a friend who years ago bought 15 acres in Indiana. A number of years ago a developer wanted to lay claim to it because "he isn't using it for anything". Well, he doesn't have to use it for something "useful", he wants to own 15 acres, use two to live on, and let the rest go wild (or rather, let it remain wild) with the various animals and native plants that have always been there.

As it happens, the developer managed to get several acres NEXT to this man's property, which are now full of half-built condos no one is living in and which won't be finished due to bankruptcy. Now, not only are these half-built buildings falling into ruin, but the scavengers who have stripped these structures of plumbing, siding, wood, anything valuable are now trespassing onto this man's property, threatening him, his family, and his possessions. There is at least one group of drug dealers in that abandoned property. It would have been better if that "developed" land has been left doing nothing useful.

Who or what guarantees the new owners will be an improvement?

What if someone has bought property but needs a year or two to raise funding to properly convert it to something "useful"? Who decides the acceptable length of time in which to raise funds? Who decides what is and isn't useful?

I do think that if you want to own property/building/home/factory you should be responsible for security - these banks would be a lot more eager to do something constructive if they were on the hook for security costs. As it is, the places get stripped and the bank just sells them as fixer-uppers, the new owner being responsible for repairing the damage.
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Erik von Nein
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Re: Miami activist thinks they are above reality / the law

Post by Erik von Nein »

The article mentions that the people moved in were six families who were helped with cleaning supplies and second-hand furniture. Sure, they could also end up being drug dealers who strip the houses of anything useful, but it doesn't sound that likely.

Sitting on a bunch of foreclosed houses because they have no value anymore and because the company is facing impending bankruptcy and needs billions of dollars worth of bailouts kind of implies that the properties are just sitting there doing nothing. More than likely someone's going to come along and vandalize it, anyway, like your example of those half-built condos. If families are being helped by having actual shelter that goes beyond some half-ass homeless shelter or their vehicle then I'm not particularly bothered by it. Yeah, it's still illegal, but arresting the families and sending various members off to jail isn't going to help. It'll just make the matter that much worse.

Regardless, like I said before there should be some effort put into getting the banks to agree to lend these places as temporary homeless shelters that have regular visits to make sure some modicum of upkeep is being maintained. These people really don't have a whole lot of choices once they lose their housing, even if they are employed, so the companies may as well work with them.
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Re: Miami activist thinks they are above reality / the law

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Erik von Nein wrote:Regardless, like I said before there should be some effort put into getting the banks to agree to lend these places as temporary homeless shelters that have regular visits to make sure some modicum of upkeep is being maintained. These people really don't have a whole lot of choices once they lose their housing, even if they are employed, so the companies may as well work with them.
The problem is that that leaves the bank legally liable for their "shelters". Also, the skills needed to run a bank aren't the same as those needed to run a shelter. It's easiest/safest for the banks to boot people out and leave the buildings empty, even if they're vandalized, than it is to use them to provide shelter. The homeless become someone else's problem
A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. Leonard Nimoy.

Now I did a job. I got nothing but trouble since I did it, not to mention more than a few unkind words as regard to my character so let me make this abundantly clear. I do the job. And then I get paid.- Malcolm Reynolds, Captain of Serenity, which sums up my feelings regarding the lawsuit discussed here.

If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. - John F. Kennedy

Sam Vimes Theory of Economic Injustice
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Re: Miami activist thinks they are above reality / the law

Post by Erik von Nein »

Then hand over management of the property to someone who's had some experience with it. Or lease it to the government for cheap. Or something. Kicking these people out into the streets is inhumane.
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Re: Miami activist thinks they are above reality / the law

Post by Big Orange »

This sort of lunacy of squandering property over money reminds me of the lunacy in the 1930s Depression where agricultural companies stockpiled fruit and vegetables in huge mounds in secure compounds, while hundreds of thousands of impoverished people starved.
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