Ford union heads: hard at work!

[aerius]

http://www.clickondetroit.com/video/15908257/index.html

The video is hilarious. Your taxpayer bailout dollars are going to a good cause!

[SCRawl]

Maybe I'm misremembering, but I thought that Ford wasn't part of the bailout, at least for now. With regard to the video, it's not at all new, but that doesn't diminish how revolting their behaviour is. Am I being too optimistic to hope that they'll get sacked over that?

[Ma Deuce]

Maybe I'm misremembering, but I thought that Ford wasn't part of the bailout, at least for now.

No they aren't, but I'd be surprised if this didn't go on at some GM and Chrysler plants as well. It probably depends mainly on the "culture" of the given Union local.

I guess the good news is this problem isn't nearly as bad as it used to be, not that it should be tolerated in even even smallest amount.

Am I being too optimistic to hope that they'll get sacked over that?

Probably. And now with the Democrats in firm control, all those fuckers out there who pull this kind of shit will probably think they can get away with it indefinitely without risking their employer's future, 'cuz they'll just get bailed out again ad infinitum, right?

[Phantasee]

Holy shit. I totally gotta get me one of them union jobs, man.

[Bilbo]

Truly pathetic that to get union workers to actually WORK you have to give them incentives. GEE, I thought getting a decent PAYCHECK was incentive for showing up at work you shiftless, useless, pathetic, motherfuckers.

[Ekiqa]

Truly pathetic that to get union workers to actually WORK you have to give them incentives. GEE, I thought getting a decent PAYCHECK was incentive for showing up at work you shiftless, useless, pathetic, motherfuckers.

What kind of job do you have?

I have to work New Years Eve, and the only incentive I have is that I will get barely minimum wage, or I will be fired. No extra pay for working on a holiday, as the shift will end at maybe 5am if I am lucky, though it might go till noon, and be a 14 hour shift.

If my job was unionised, I'd atleast get holiday bonus pay, nor would I be fired if I took the night off.

Just thank your lucky stars that unions are around to force through some decent labour laws.

[Kitsune]

I am not Union but I do get time and a half for working holidays......You also had to request a holiday off about a month in advance.

[AMT]

Truly pathetic that to get union workers to actually WORK you have to give them incentives. GEE, I thought getting a decent PAYCHECK was incentive for showing up at work you shiftless, useless, pathetic, motherfuckers.

Actually they got the idea from NON union auto shops like Toyota. The Toyota plant in Georgetown KY for example has a bonuses for 100% attendance, as well as a year end celebration where everyone with perfect attendance can go to a special dinner, where dozens of prizes are given away, including several Toyota vehicles (they even pay the tax and title for them!).

So... yeah. It's not about being shiftless, useless, or lazy. It's about the fact that some businesses realize that the carrot approach to certain issues like attendance usually works a lot better then the stick approach.

Only bad thing about it is that the incentives are only for actual employees. So those who work for contractors, like security, most non-full time types, etc. don't qualify

And to be frank, stuff like that from Toyota only occurred thanks to Unions and their impact. It's just a shame that unions went from what they were to what they currently are, at least in some industries.

[Bilbo]

Truly pathetic that to get union workers to actually WORK you have to give them incentives. GEE, I thought getting a decent PAYCHECK was incentive for showing up at work you shiftless, useless, pathetic, motherfuckers.

Actually they got the idea from NON union auto shops like Toyota. The Toyota plant in Georgetown KY for example has a bonuses for 100% attendance, as well as a year end celebration where everyone with perfect attendance can go to a special dinner, where dozens of prizes are given away, including several Toyota vehicles (they even pay the tax and title for them!).

So... yeah. It's not about being shiftless, useless, or lazy. It's about the fact that some businesses realize that the carrot approach to certain issues like attendance usually works a lot better then the stick approach.

Only bad thing about it is that the incentives are only for actual employees. So those who work for contractors, like security, most non-full time types, etc. don't qualify

And to be frank, stuff like that from Toyota only occurred thanks to Unions and their impact. It's just a shame that unions went from what they were to what they currently are, at least in some industries.

The pathetic part was how these dog and pony shows have to be done to get the employees show up for work.

[AMT]

Truly pathetic that to get union workers to actually WORK you have to give them incentives. GEE, I thought getting a decent PAYCHECK was incentive for showing up at work you shiftless, useless, pathetic, motherfuckers.

Actually they got the idea from NON union auto shops like Toyota. The Toyota plant in Georgetown KY for example has a bonuses for 100% attendance, as well as a year end celebration where everyone with perfect attendance can go to a special dinner, where dozens of prizes are given away, including several Toyota vehicles (they even pay the tax and title for them!).

So... yeah. It's not about being shiftless, useless, or lazy. It's about the fact that some businesses realize that the carrot approach to certain issues like attendance usually works a lot better then the stick approach.

Only bad thing about it is that the incentives are only for actual employees. So those who work for contractors, like security, most non-full time types, etc. don't qualify

And to be frank, stuff like that from Toyota only occurred thanks to Unions and their impact. It's just a shame that unions went from what they were to what they currently are, at least in some industries.

The pathetic part was how these dog and pony shows have to be done to get the employees show up for work.

Perhaps if most rank and file workers got perks equal to those at higher levels such dog and pony shows wouldn't be needed in the first place. While places like Europe have plenty of off days and whatnot to take care of personal needs, the US lags very far behind them, so at the very least they should provide such bonuses, if they're going to force workers to work so much during the year. (Europe: mandatory 3 weeks off per year paid, plus six days, verses the US)

[mr friendly guy]

Bilbo is right. These guys are pathetic and its sad that the company has to resort to this at a time when they are haemorrhaging cash.

Now some posters here have it bad, as they stated in previous posts, but that doesn't have anything to do with the conditions shown in the video. These guys clearly do have incentive to put in the hours, that is overtime pay. Complaining about how you are forced to work at holidays without extra pay is bad for you, but doesn't appear to be the case here. The bad thing is, these fuckers just lie about the overtime.

In case any one is interested, I get decent conditions such as public holiday pay, overtime etc. The problem is, the government centralised pay roll finds excuses to refuse pay (oops, we forgot to pay you, you will get it next time) and either stretches the wording of the agreement and others just blatantly breaks it (to not pay overtime). That being said, their interpretation of the agreement is being challenged, which as these things go, take time. And I will only be partially satisfied when they give me what I am ordered. I want the head of payroll or whoever instituted these bullshit interpretation to be sacked.

[Stargate Nerd]

Yes two individuals misbehaving is truly deserving of all the outrage in this thread.

[mr friendly guy]

Because suggesting that workers who don't put in the hours they are supposed to and lie about it should be sacked is soooo excessive. I mean, you would think in our over the top outrage we were asking for them to be shot or something.

[Bilbo]

Yes two individuals misbehaving is truly deserving of all the outrage in this thread.

Two thousand PLUS hours of overtime in one year and all you call that is misbehaving? I do believe that this constitutes theft, fraud, and since the guys boss knows that his underling is doing this Conspiracy.

[Big Phil]

Yes two individuals misbehaving is truly deserving of all the outrage in this thread.

Two thousand PLUS hours of overtime in one year and all you call that is misbehaving? I do believe that this constitutes theft, fraud, and since the guys boss knows that his underling is doing this Conspiracy.

On that subject, some basic math for people:

Most American workers are paid based on 2080 hours of work each year (40 hrs/week x 52 weeks). Now, look at this calculation:

Hourly Wage ($20) x 2080 hours/year = $41,600 annual salary

Assuming someone gets paid time and a half for overtime, and to keep the calculation simple work one hour of overtime for each regular hour, then the calculation becomes this

(Hourly Wage ($20) x 2080 hours/year) + (Hourly Overtime Wage ($30) x 2080 hours/year) = ($41,600+$62,400) = $104,000

This isn't simply misbehaving - this is outright theft. That's embezzlement, for fucks sake. I wonder why this wasn't identified sooner? Any given year only has 8760 hours in in (365 days x 24 hours), and we're to believe that these fuckers worked nearly half of the hours available in a year? Even workaholics putting in 12-14 hour days usually give it a break on weekends.

[Rogue 9]

I don't care how unionized they are. They clearly deserve to be fired, and if the union contracts don't allow it, then Ford shouldn't have entered into them.

[Vain]

Even workaholics putting in 12-14 hour days usually give it a break on weekends.

My father has been known to work consecutive 12 hour days for weeks at a time, when the OT is available. Of course, he spends that time at work, and not dicking off at home. He likes his job, and you can't sneeze at tripling your salary if you are the kind of person who can keep it up.

[Bilbo]

Even workaholics putting in 12-14 hour days usually give it a break on weekends.

My father has been known to work consecutive 12 hour days for weeks at a time, when the OT is available. Of course, he spends that time at work, and not dicking off at home. He likes his job, and you can't sneeze at tripling your salary if you are the kind of person who can keep it up.

Work 12 hours a day all year long and you only get HALF the overtime these two assholes recorded.

[Kitsune]

Most American workers are paid based on 2080 hours of work each year (40 hrs/week x 52 weeks). Now, look at this calculation:

Hourly Wage ($20) x 2080 hours/year = $41,600 annual salary

Assuming someone gets paid time and a half for overtime, and to keep the calculation simple work one hour of overtime for each regular hour, then the calculation becomes this

(Hourly Wage ($20) x 2080 hours/year) + (Hourly Overtime Wage ($30) x 2080 hours/year) = ($41,600+$62,400) = $104,000

They are senior union officials so it is quite likely that they make more per hour than that.

According to simplyhired, a Union Official makes an average of 59,000 a year. That is more like around $30 an hour and that is not a senior union official. I will bet he makes more like twice what you list......

I would bet you could employ almost six workers for his cost

[Glocksman]

According to simplyhired, a Union Official makes an average of 59,000 a year. That is more like around $30 an hour and that is not a senior union official. I will bet he makes more like twice what you list...

If you want to know what union officials make from their union offices in the way of pay, the Department of Labor has that information available on their website.

In my union local, the officers and stewards only get 'lost time' (compensation for lost wages at their regular hourly rate because of union business) and a refund on their union dues every quarter.

Dues are less than $8/week, so the refund isn't that large.

The only one who actually is paid by the union full time is the 'Service Representative' or 'Business Agent', who typically travels a lot and works with several locals.

My BA made $46k last year and got reimbursed about $19k in expenses (gas, food, lodging, car rentals, etc.) while doing his job.
Considering that he lives in Terre Haute and drives to Indianapolis, Evansville, and a couple of small shops in SW Kentucky several times a month, he's not making a princely amount of money.

A couple of weeks ago there was a rally in Indy for the hotel workers, and I and several others from our shop volunteered to go.
It wasn't paid time off for us because it wasn't 'shop related' (I worked Sunday at double time, so I wasn't worried about the lost pay), but he rented a van to haul 10 of us to Indy and paid for supper on the way back for us.
We had to sign the receipt so the regional would reimburse him for the money spent on dinner.

Other unions operate differently though, so YMMV.

[Stargate Nerd]

Yes two individuals misbehaving is truly deserving of all the outrage in this thread.

Two thousand PLUS hours of overtime in one year and all you call that is misbehaving? I do believe that this constitutes theft, fraud, and since the guys boss knows that his underling is doing this Conspiracy.

Yes but it doesn't change the fact that most or much of the outrage in this thread is focused on unions in general, rather than just two individuals engaging in theft, fraud and conspiracy.

[Knife]

Yes but it doesn't change the fact that most or much of the outrage in this thread is focused on unions in general, rather than just two individuals engaging in theft, fraud and conspiracy.

Kind of hard to miss that they are union bosses.

[Glocksman]

Yes but it doesn't change the fact that most or much of the outrage in this thread is focused on unions in general, rather than just two individuals engaging in theft, fraud and conspiracy.

Kind of hard to miss that they are union bosses.

True.
OTOH, not all unions and union officers are like that any more than all Democrats are like Rod Blagojevich or all Republicans are like GWB.

I've been a shop steward for most of my employment at the local TJ Maxx DC, and I can tell you that it's not because I love the dues refund I get for my service.
Frankly, I do it because it's challenging (try ticketing shirts for 8 hours a day for years instead ) and it allows me to help my union brothers and sisters when they're being screwed by management.

Absent those factors I'd be crazy to become a local officer or steward because you get bitched out by the members both for things that are your fault and for things you had nothing to do with.

It's not pleasant, however I can take the heat for my failures but it really grates when I have to defend the failures of other local officers or stewards.

In the end I realize that it's my job to listen to my people even if the complaints are unjustified or if they're just bitching to merely to blow off steam because I'm the one person in their area they can yell at without fear of company discipline.

For every corrupt asshole in a union local (and I know a few in my own who hold office merely for 'prestige' and paid time off to the national convention) there are a lot more who quietly toil away.

As far as the perps in question go, just fire their asses.
If their statements turn out to be true, there isn't an ALJ in the country who'd give them their jobs back.

[Stargate Nerd]

Yes but it doesn't change the fact that most or much of the outrage in this thread is focused on unions in general, rather than just two individuals engaging in theft, fraud and conspiracy.

Kind of hard to miss that they are union bosses.

Unless you're arguing that they're corrupt because they're union, I don't see how it matters.

[Knife]

Unless you're arguing that they're corrupt because they're union, I don't see how it matters.

*sigh* That even if rage is being leveled at a union, in this instance there is at least this one where it is justified you tool.