Raise your voice, go to jail, lose your kids!

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The_Last_Rebel
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Raise your voice, go to jail, lose your kids!

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In-flight confrontations can lead to charges defined as terrorism

Bill Waugh, for the Times
Tamera Jo Freeman lost custody of her children after an incident on a Frontier Airlines flight. "A woman spanking her child is not as great a threat to aviation as members of Al Qaeda with box cutters," says one expert.
In-flight confrontations can lead to charges defined as terrorism

Bill Waugh, for the Times
Tamera Jo Freeman lost custody of her children after an incident on a Frontier Airlines flight. "A woman spanking her child is not as great a threat to aviation as members of Al Qaeda with box cutters," says one expert.
At least 200 passengers have been convicted of felonies under the Patriot Act, often for behavior involving raised voices and profanity. Some experts say airlines are misusing the law.
By Ralph Vartabedian and Peter Pae
January 20, 2009
Reporting from Los Angeles and Oklahoma City -- Tamera Jo Freeman was on a Frontier Airlines flight to Denver in 2007 when her two children began to quarrel over the window shade and then spilled a Bloody Mary into her lap.

She spanked each of them on the thigh with three swats. It was a small incident, but one that in the heightened anxiety after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks would eventually have enormous ramifications for Freeman and her children.

A flight attendant confronted Freeman, who responded by hurling a few profanities and throwing what remained of a can of tomato juice on the floor.

The incident aboard the Frontier flight ultimately led to Freeman's arrest and conviction for a federal felony defined as an act of terrorism under the Patriot Act, the controversial federal law enacted after the 2001 attacks in New York and Washington.

"I had no idea I was breaking the law," said Freeman, 40, who spent three months in jail before pleading guilty.

Freeman is one of at least 200 people on flights who have been convicted under the amended law. In most of the cases, there was no evidence that the passengers had attempted to hijack the airplane or physically attack any of the flight crew. Many have simply involved raised voices, foul language and drunken behavior.

Some security experts say the use of the law by airlines and their employees has run amok, criminalizing incidents that did not start out as a threat to public safety, much less an act of terrorism.

In one case, a couple was arrested after an argument with a flight attendant, who claimed the couple was engaged in "overt sexual activity" -- an FBI affidavit said the two were "embracing, kissing and acting in a manner that made other passengers uncomfortable."

"We have gone completely berserk on this issue," said Charles Slepian, a New York security consultant. "These are not threats to national security or threats to aircraft, but we use that as an excuse."

Justice Department spokesman Dean Boyd defended the prosecutions, saying that they have helped improve airline security. He added that the department has only pursued prosecution "when the facts and circumstances of a particular case warrant such action."

Indeed, the law has given airlines new flexibility to clamp down on unruly behavior. But the intent of the Patriot Act provisions was to put terrorists in violation of the law before they could execute an actual takeover, said Nathan Sales, a law professor at George Mason University who helped write the Patriot Act when he served in the Justice Department.

But Sales acknowledged that in the fervor to protect the skies, the practical application of the law has strayed.

"A woman spanking her child is not as great a threat to aviation as members of Al Qaeda with box cutters. That much is clear," he said.

For decades, airline personnel and law enforcement have had wide latitude in prosecuting unruly passengers, not only for assaults or threats but also for any behavior, including arguing, that disrupts a flight or "lessens the ability" of crew members to perform their jobs.

In practice, however, airlines have largely maintained order under Federal Aviation Administration rules, in which hundreds of unruly passengers are simply slapped with an infraction and fine each year.

According to FAA guidelines issued in 2007, "interference or intimidation of a crew member by itself is not chargeable under the [criminal] statute unless it rises to the level of physical assault, threatened physical assault or an act posing an imminent threat to the safety of the aircraft or other individuals on the aircraft."

Sept. 11, however, changed everything. Within two months of the attacks, Congress passed the Patriot Act, a sweeping attempt to improve the nation's defenses against international terrorism. It included broad new powers for law enforcement in such areas as electronic surveillance, money laundering and search warrants.

Included were two key provisions on airline security. The first defined disruptive behavior as a terrorist act, reflecting the seismic shift in airline security.

The second broadened the existing criminal law so that any attempt or conspiracy to interfere with a flight crew became a felony -- a change that allowed flight personnel to act against suspicious passengers even if they hadn't begun an actual assault.

The law gave flight personnel enormous latitude in determining what precisely posed a potential threat or disruption, and judging by some cases, there is no clear standard.

Last summer, a Boston man who took off his clothes and attempted to open an emergency exit during a flight to Los Angeles was not charged with a crime, even though the plane was forced to make an unscheduled landing in Oklahoma City.

Such was not the case with Carl Persing and Dawn Sewell, a Lakewood couple who never left their seats during the 2006 incident aboard a Southwest flight to Raleigh, N.C., that led to their arrests and four days in jail.

FBI and local investigators in Raleigh alleged that the couple engaged in a variety of sexual activities during the flight. At one point, according to an FBI affidavit, Persing was "observed with his face pressed against Sewell's vaginal area. During these actions, Sewell was observed smiling."

A flight attendant twice asked them to stop, according to the affidavit, and Persing responded, "Get out of my face," and later, "You and I are going to have a serious confrontation when we get off this plane."

But he denied making a threat. He said he did not feel well because of a chemotherapy drug and had put his head in Sewell's lap. "We were kind of confused why he was waking us up, why he wouldn't let me sleep," he said in a recent interview.

Charges were dropped against Sewell, but Persing, who had never been arrested before, was sentenced to 12 months' probation.

He almost lost his job as a Port of Los Angeles mechanic, which requires a security clearance from the Department of Homeland Security. The department initially yanked the clearance but reinstated it after a review of the facts.

The Justice Department does not keep data on how many such prosecutions or convictions have occurred, Boyd said. But according to the Transactional Records Access Clearinghouse, a Syracuse University program, the federal government has obtained 208 felony convictions for disrupting flights since 2003, when data first became available.

The single case of actual terrorism cited by Boyd involved Briton Richard Reid, who is serving three life sentences. Reid was subdued by passengers and flight attendants on a 2001 flight from Paris to Miami after he was seen trying to ignite explosives in his shoe.

Tension aboard planes has increased over the years as the number of flight attendants onboard has declined and flights have grown more crowded.

Airlines, in most cases, have provided no additional training for flight attendants to deal with unruly passengers or potentially threatening situations, said Corey Caldwell, spokeswoman for the Assn. of Flight Attendants. The amount of training attendants receive -- averaging six weeks -- has not changed since Sept. 11.

Tolerance for irrational behavior linked to mental illness has also diminished, said Ronald Honberg, legal director for the National Alliance on Mental Illness.

In a number of cases, mentally ill passengers act bizarre, falsely claiming to have heart attacks, seeing terrorists or needing to escape the plane. In other cases, including one earlier this month in Los Angeles, they use the word "bomb" or claim to have a bomb. They are typically restrained, but whether they are prosecuted depends on the widely varying judgment of prosecutors around the country.

"If you get out of your seat and walk to the front of a plane and talk about bombs, you get what you deserve," said Sales, the law professor.

On the other hand, Sales adds, "There are other sanctions than throwing the book at a person who has mental health issues."

The costs of a conviction can be enormous. In Tamera Freeman's case, it cost her custody of her children.

The confrontation on the Frontier Airlines flight to Denver was particularly harsh, recalled Amy Fleming, the flight attendant who told Freeman to stop spanking her children. In a recent interview, Fleming called Freeman the most unruly passenger she had seen in 11 years on the job.

"Absolutely she deserved a felony conviction," she said.

But at least one passenger, John Carlson, a defense attorney who was seated near Freeman, said there was no threat. "There was a nasty, loud exchange," Carlson said. Then Freeman "capitulated and offered no resistance. My sympathy shifted to her."

A spokeswoman for Frontier said the airline has provided more training for flight attendants since 2001, including classes on "ways to calm a situation before it reaches a boiling point or physical confrontation."

After three months in jail, Freeman agreed to plead guilty in exchange for being released on probation. A court-appointed attorney told her that a plea deal would be the fastest way to see her children, who had been taken back to Hawaii and put into foster care.

Her probation required her to stay in Oklahoma City, where she grew up, and prohibited her from flying. Meanwhile, legal proceedings in Hawaii have begun to allow the children's foster parents to adopt them.

Freeman has been denied permission to attend custody hearings in Maui over the last six months, court records show.

"I have cried. I have cried for my children every day," Freeman said. "I feel the system is failing me."

ralph.vartabedian@ latimes.com

peter.pae@latimes.com


On the one hand, she shouldn't have yelled at the flight attendant, but on the other, this did not warrant an arrest and is a good example of one issue I'd like to see addressed--at least a scaleback of some of the more draconian laws of the Patriot act. Makes me not want to fly at all.
"A woman spanking her child is not as great a threat to aviation as members of Al Qaeda with box cutters," says one expert.
I just had to sig that one.
"A woman spanking her child is not as great a threat to aviation as members of Al Qaeda with box cutters," says one expert.-Understatement of the century.
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The Original Nex
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Re: Raise your voice, go to jail, lose your kids!

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This is outrageous! I'm surprised the court even went along with the charges! And how big a bitch is that flight attendent? Who is she to judge that the passenger "absolutely deserved felony charges"?

Yes, don't spank you kids on an airplane (I'd argue, don't spank them at all), and certainly don't make a scene on the plane; but to be charged with terrorism and have custody of your kids removed? That's absurd.
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Re: Raise your voice, go to jail, lose your kids!

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What I really find outrageous is this:
In one case, a couple was arrested after an argument with a flight attendant, who claimed the couple was engaged in "overt sexual activity" -- an FBI affidavit said the two were "embracing, kissing and acting in a manner that made other passengers uncomfortable."
I really can't get over how uptight people are about others expressing affection in public, seeing how no one is forcing them to watch. Of course they wouldn't see anything wrong with that until the same thing happens to someone who is praying at a restaurant, or wearing religious symbols.

As for the airlines abusing the laws, who would have guessed that such a thing would happen? Because, you know, people have such a great track record not abusing whatever power they get. :banghead:
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Re: Raise your voice, go to jail, lose your kids!

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I'm all for discipline and good behavior on airplanes, but I agree that some of this has gone too far. But why be surprised? Did anyone honestly think that you could hand out power and not see it abused?

Absolutely there should be much better standards of what is and isn't threatening and a reasonable scale of punishments. Disruptive/annoying behavior in a confined space people can't leave - which is what an airplane in flight is - should not be tolerated without some form of sanction but felony convictions are, in most cases, over the top.

Yes, spanking your children, spilling a drink, throwing things on the floor, and arguing with a flight attendant is disruptive and should suffer some sort of sanction - but not a felony conviction and not a loss of your children. It is not a threat to the safety of other passengers nor to the operation of the aircraft which, IMO, is what the threshold should be for "felony" in this context.
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Re: Raise your voice, go to jail, lose your kids!

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LordOskuro wrote:What I really find outrageous is this:
In one case, a couple was arrested after an argument with a flight attendant, who claimed the couple was engaged in "overt sexual activity" -- an FBI affidavit said the two were "embracing, kissing and acting in a manner that made other passengers uncomfortable."
I really can't get over how uptight people are about others expressing affection in public, seeing how no one is forcing them to watch. Of course they wouldn't see anything wrong with that until the same thing happens to someone who is praying at a restaurant, or wearing religious symbols.
So what about a couple going on their honeymoon? I can't imagine not being openly affectionate with my bride.
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Re: Raise your voice, go to jail, lose your kids!

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LordOskuro wrote:What I really find outrageous is this:
In one case, a couple was arrested after an argument with a flight attendant, who claimed the couple was engaged in "overt sexual activity" -- an FBI affidavit said the two were "embracing, kissing and acting in a manner that made other passengers uncomfortable."
I really can't get over how uptight people are about others expressing affection in public, seeing how no one is forcing them to watch. Of course they wouldn't see anything wrong with that until the same thing happens to someone who is praying at a restaurant, or wearing religious symbols.

As for the airlines abusing the laws, who would have guessed that such a thing would happen? Because, you know, people have such a great track record not abusing whatever power they get. :banghead:
Didn't something later say something about the man's face/mouth being in the woman's crotch? That's a little beyond the normal kissing and hugging that is considered acceptable in public. Of course, people have been fucking in airplanes since the cabins got large enough to physically make it possible but that doesn't mean doing it in front of the other passengers it acceptable, either. It's public indecency, and should be treated as such - and not as "terrorism".
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Now I did a job. I got nothing but trouble since I did it, not to mention more than a few unkind words as regard to my character so let me make this abundantly clear. I do the job. And then I get paid.- Malcolm Reynolds, Captain of Serenity, which sums up my feelings regarding the lawsuit discussed here.

If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. - John F. Kennedy

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Re: Raise your voice, go to jail, lose your kids!

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LordOskuro wrote:What I really find outrageous is this:
In one case, a couple was arrested after an argument with a flight attendant, who claimed the couple was engaged in "overt sexual activity" -- an FBI affidavit said the two were "embracing, kissing and acting in a manner that made other passengers uncomfortable."
I really can't get over how uptight people are about others expressing affection in public, seeing how no one is forcing them to watch. Of course they wouldn't see anything wrong with that until the same thing happens to someone who is praying at a restaurant, or wearing religious symbols.
I take it you've never heard of "captive audience laws" before? The fact that the passengers on a flight don't really have a whole lot of choice except to "close their eyes" rather applies here. (Although charging it as a Federal offense is absurd).
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Re: Raise your voice, go to jail, lose your kids!

Post by Duckie »

General Zod wrote:
LordOskuro wrote:What I really find outrageous is this:
In one case, a couple was arrested after an argument with a flight attendant, who claimed the couple was engaged in "overt sexual activity" -- an FBI affidavit said the two were "embracing, kissing and acting in a manner that made other passengers uncomfortable."
I really can't get over how uptight people are about others expressing affection in public, seeing how no one is forcing them to watch. Of course they wouldn't see anything wrong with that until the same thing happens to someone who is praying at a restaurant, or wearing religious symbols.
I take it you've never heard of "captive audience laws" before? The fact that the passengers on a flight don't really have a whole lot of choice except to "close their eyes" rather applies here. (Although charging it as a Federal offense is absurd).
Kissing is not an offensive act, and thus is not a captive audience. If he was eating her out as someone else claimed that's beyond the limits, but making out is not a crime in anywhere but Saudi Arabia.

Further, I'm wondering how Terrorism can be so loosely defined that spanking or disrupting a flight now qualifies. Isn't terrorism supposed to be defined as "criminal acts with intent to cause terror"? What's so terrifying about being rude to a flight attendant?
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Re: Raise your voice, go to jail, lose your kids!

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MRDOD wrote: Kissing is not an offensive act, and thus is not a captive audience. If he was eating her out as someone else claimed that's beyond the limits, but making out is not a crime in anywhere but Saudi Arabia.
I never said that it was. But we don't know what they were doing beyond "overt sexual activity". That makes me think he was groping her tits or sticking his hands down her pants or something.
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Re: Raise your voice, go to jail, lose your kids!

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Broomstick wrote:Didn't something later say something about the man's face/mouth being in the woman's crotch? That's a little beyond the normal kissing and hugging that is considered acceptable in public. Of course, people have been fucking in airplanes since the cabins got large enough to physically make it possible but that doesn't mean doing it in front of the other passengers it acceptable, either. It's public indecency, and should be treated as such - and not as "terrorism".
If I read that correctly, the couple's version of the events was that he wasn't feeling too well and slept with his head in her lap and they got in trouble for that. The accounts are conflicting.
FBI and local investigators in Raleigh alleged that the couple engaged in a variety of sexual activities during the flight. At one point, according to an FBI affidavit, Persing was "observed with his face pressed against Sewell's vaginal area. During these actions, Sewell was observed smiling."

A flight attendant twice asked them to stop, according to the affidavit, and Persing responded, "Get out of my face," and later, "You and I are going to have a serious confrontation when we get off this plane."

But he denied making a threat. He said he did not feel well because of a chemotherapy drug and had put his head in Sewell's lap. "We were kind of confused why he was waking us up, why he wouldn't let me sleep," he said in a recent interview.

Charges were dropped against Sewell, but Persing, who had never been arrested before, was sentenced to 12 months' probation.
Wouldn't surprise me at all if they were telling the truth and some overzealous moralizing asshat decided to make an example of them. There are far too many cases like that in the US "justice" system.
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