BBC blocks Gaza Ad

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BBC blocks Gaza Ad

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CNN wrote: LONDON, England (CNN) -- The BBC is refusing to broadcast a plea from leading British charities for aid to Gaza, saying the ad would compromise the public broadcaster's appearance of impartiality.
Demonstrators protest at the BBC's central London offices Saturday against the broadcaster's decision.

Demonstrators protest at the BBC's central London offices Saturday against the broadcaster's decision.

The decision prompted weekend protests in England and Scotland, with one group saying Sunday that 100 people had occupied the foyer of the BBC building in Glasgow, Scotland and would not leave until the BBC runs the ad.

The Disasters Emergency Committee, which includes the British Red Cross, Oxfam, Save the Children and 10 other charities, plans to launch the ad on Monday.

British broadcasters, led by the BBC, originally declined to air the appeal -- but in the face of criticism from government ministers and others, ITV, Channel 4 and Channel 5 changed their minds. CNN was not approached to broadcast the ad, a DEC spokesman said.

About 5,000 people demonstrated in front of the BBC's Broadcasting House in central London on Saturday over the broadcaster's stance. Seven people were arrested. Video Watch protest against BBC decision »

In Glasgow, the London-based Stop the War Coalition said Sunday its supporters had moved into the foyer of the BBC building in what the group described as a peaceful protest.

The group did not plan to move beyond the foyer but intended to stay there until the BBC changes its decision, said Keith Boyd, a coalition member who called CNN on Sunday.

"Primarily we are asking that the ad be shown," Boyd said.

The BBC press office would not confirm whether its Glasgow office was being occupied or if protesters were even there.

"We don't comment on individual demonstrations," a statement from the BBC press office said.

The BBC is standing by its decision to not air the ad, director general Mark Thompson wrote in a blog post on the corporation's Web site.

"We concluded that we could not broadcast a free-standing appeal, no matter how carefully constructed, without running the risk of reducing public confidence in the BBC's impartiality in its wider coverage of the story," he wrote Saturday.

"Inevitably an appeal would use pictures which are the same or similar to those we would be using in our news programs but would do so with the objective of encouraging public donations. The danger for the BBC is that this could be interpreted as taking a political stance on an ongoing story," Thompson said.

"Gaza remains a major ongoing news story, in which humanitarian issues -- the suffering and distress of civilians and combatants on both sides of the conflict, the debate about who is responsible for causing it and what should be done about it -- are both at the heart of the story and contentious," he added.

The BBC, which is funded by an obligatory license fee paid by every British household with a television, is required by its charter to be impartial. It does not carry commercial advertising but does broadcast charity appeals.

The DEC is "disappointed that the BBC declined to support the Gaza appeal," the spokesman told CNN. "It might limit the reach of our key message to the general public."

The spokesman, who asked not to be named, said the BBC had to make its own decision about impartiality.

"That is a decision they must make. We have no view on that subject," he said.

Many readers of Thompson's blog post did have a view, however. The statement got hundreds of comments, most of them critical of the BBC.

A commenter who signed in as "bully--baiter" said the BBC was taking a side, no matter what it did.

"Sorry Mr. Thompson but you cannot have it both ways. If deciding to accede to the DEC request would be seen as political then deciding not to accede to it is also political. Don't insult me with your disingenuous attempts to suggest it is otherwise," the commenter wrote.

Other commenters simply rejected Thompson's position out of hand.

"I think the reasons for blocking help for a grave humanitarian disaster are simply astounding," "brit--proud" wrote. "How can simply bringing food, medicines and homes to hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians be seen as political impartiality? How stupid do the BBC think the British public are?"

But the corporation had its defenders as well.

"The last thing I want to do, is fund the BBC to broadcast propaganda," "SternG" wrote: "There's no way I will pay the BBC to air the DEC's politically-motivated 'appeal' for Gaza. Gaza is run by a government which is internationally recognized as a terrorist group, including by the EU. There is no doubt that some aid/fund will be 'procured' by Hamas. ... Good decision BBC."

British broadcasters have refused to air some previous DEC appeals, the umbrella organization's spokesman said.

A planned 2006 appeal for aid to victims of the war in Lebanon was scrapped because "there were genuine concerns, shared by the aid agencies, about the deliverability of aid."

Thompson cited doubts about whether DEC members could get aid to Gaza as a secondary reason for declining to take the ad.
Fucking good decision by the Beeb.
I don't take back all of my occasional annoyance at the BBC for its various slight (relatively slight, but still existant) bias in its coverage of all things Israel, but I feel a lot happier at it being my main source of news .
"They don't want to let us advertise sending aid money to the terrorist government! They must hate the Palestinians!". Bunch of small minded and narrow viewing twats.
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Re: BBC blocks Gaza Ad

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Yes because as we all know the suggestion that there is a humanitarian crisis in Gaza is "propaganda". This isn't an appeal by Hamas it is by a coalition of aid organisation. So either we have to accept that the BBC's so called impartiality is more important than trying to get aid to save people's lives, or we have to accept that somehow these lives are not in danger.

This is a bunch of bullshit, the appeal for aid should be shown.
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Re: BBC blocks Gaza Ad

Post by The Grim Squeaker »

The Guid wrote:Yes because as we all know the suggestion that there is a humanitarian crisis in Gaza is "propaganda".
That isn't propaganda, but the way it might be (and probably would have/is) shown can easily be.
This isn't an appeal by Hamas it is by a coalition of aid organisation.
I wasn't talking about Hamas involvement (I never thought of it).
So either we have to accept that the BBC's so called impartiality is more important than trying to get aid to save people's lives, or we have to accept that somehow these lives are not in danger.
Or that the ad itself might not be impartial in how it portrays the situation.
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Re: BBC blocks Gaza Ad

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DEATH wrote:Or that the ad itself might not be impartial in how it portrays the situation.
Except that Mr. Thompson said that "[the BBC] could not broadcast a free-standing appeal, no matter how carefully constructed, without running the risk of reducing public confidence in the BBC's impartiality in its wider coverage of the story".

So it would appear it's not what's in the ad the Beeb has issues with, it's what it's about. It doesn't matter what's in it, because the BBC wouldn't broadcast it anyway.

Personally I sympathize with the BBC's desire to preserve its impartiality, but I don't see how running an ad that most likely won't show anything worse than the BBC's own coverage from the area is going to damage the public's confidence in the broadcaster. I expect this advertisement to show how shitty a situation Gaza is in right now, but guess what-- the BBC already shows exactly that in its own news bulletins. So frankly this decision strikes me as needlessly frightened arse-covering by the BBC.
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Re: BBC blocks Gaza Ad

Post by Zac Naloen »

The BBC has never run these kind of campaign adds before. (i.e oxfam etc or any adverts except for their own programming)

By running this one they would be showing a bias just in the act.

I sympathise with the bbc's actions here, and definitely agree with them.
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Re: BBC blocks Gaza Ad

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Zac Naloen wrote:The BBC has never run these kind of campaign adds before. (i.e oxfam etc or any adverts except for their own programming)
Apparently the article disagrees with you:
The BBC, which is funded by an obligatory license fee paid by every British household with a television, is required by its charter to be impartial. It does not carry commercial advertising but does broadcast charity appeals.
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Re: BBC blocks Gaza Ad

Post by Zac Naloen »

Yes, Children in Need and Sports Relief.

Can you see the difference?

I said "These kinds of appeals"

Which is accurate.
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Re: BBC blocks Gaza Ad

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Yes I do. So would you say that you disagree with the BBC airing the ad. mainly because they don't ever air charity ads, or because of the danger of being seen to be political.

For instance would you agree with the BBC airing an ad for appeal if Japan was hit by a major earthquake and there was nobody thinking or saying that the Japanese government should have done more for example?
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Re: BBC blocks Gaza Ad

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Yes I do. So would you say that you disagree with the BBC airing the ad. mainly because they don't ever air charity ads, or because of the danger of being seen to be political.
I agree with the BBC not airing the add for the reasons given by the BBC.
For instance would you agree with the BBC airing an ad for appeal if Japan was hit by a major earthquake and there was nobody thinking or saying that the Japanese government should have done more for example?
Has Japan recently been involved in a highly politically charged event with accusations flying all over the place as to who supports what and why?
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Re: BBC blocks Gaza Ad

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Zac Naloen wrote:
For instance would you agree with the BBC airing an ad for appeal if Japan was hit by a major earthquake and there was nobody thinking or saying that the Japanese government should have done more for example?
Has Japan recently been involved in a highly politically charged event with accusations flying all over the place as to who supports what and why?
Or as another alternative, running an Ad for aid for Germany during WW2. There was far greater suffering there after all, and to make the analogy work you'd need the Nazi government still in power.
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Re: BBC blocks Gaza Ad

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DEATH wrote: Or as another alternative, running an Ad for aid for Germany during WW2. There was far greater suffering there after all, and to make the analogy work you'd need the Nazi government still in power.
Ok I was not going to bother with this thread until I saw this.
What the flying fuck Death? Are you?.... No you are I can't believe you said that... wait no I can

Hey everybody Death thinks Hamas is just like the Nazi's!
Real shit comparison there Death. First off if you recall your history there were calls for aid from Britian to Germany in 1946. One year after the war you can dig up reports of medical supplies and army rations being sent to Germany from both France and Great Britian. Even direct money, there were Germans who were not Nazi's appealing for money in British newspapers to help rebuild Germany.

More-over the thing that everyone in this thread ignored is the fact per the OP the plea came from British based charities this is not a HAMAS run front group. These are(We assume) citizens of Britian calling on fellow citizens of Britain to donate money so that they can undertake further humanitarian relief efforts inside Gaza. If HAMAS were any way involved in the add(Funding it, having a spokesperson in it, providing the film) then you'd have reasons to ban it. But as far as I can tell from the OP here is that this appeal was created in Britian for Britians by Britians and it just so happens they want to help out in Gaza which as noted just did get the fuck bombed out of it, does not have power or clean water for much of it's citizens and is in need of assistance.

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Re: BBC blocks Gaza Ad

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I apologize for using Nazi germany as an example, I was not trying to equate Hamas to being as bad as Nazi germany's government, but I was equating them to one committing illegal acts (war crimes in Germany's case, terrorism and therefore war crimes in the Hammas government's case) regardless of the fact that there is a proven track record money of aid money and supplies being siphoned off for funding/supplying armed groups there, which is why I have issues about whther calls for aid are calls for aid or can be shown as propaganda (Which I can very easily see happening "Look at the destruction! Weeping child! Send money against the invasion now!" It might be fair and balanced, and it easily might not). (which is irrelevant, I know, I can't remember what my point in this was).
Stupidly Bad example, sorry I used WW2 Germany.
USA Aid to North Korea during the Korean war then, I don't know.
Bean wrote: Real shit comparison there Death. First off if you recall your history there were calls for aid from Britian to Germany in 1946.
Actually, I've never ever heard about that, I was aware only of USA aid to Germany in the years immediately following WW2. Interesting.
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Re: BBC blocks Gaza Ad

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Again you can't compare it with a country we or anyone else is currently at war with. If you wanted to say add to Vietnam while France was still fighting there maybe. Aid to Germany in 1939 would fit the bill except HAMAS is a vastly weakier government limited to the most primitive war fighting methods while these two examples(Franco-Nam and German+Poland) are ones of sovereign countries with full armies and purchasing power to get more weapons from various clients.

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Re: BBC blocks Gaza Ad

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More-over the thing that everyone in this thread ignored is the fact per the OP the plea came from British based charities this is not a HAMAS run front group. These are(We assume) citizens of Britian calling on fellow citizens of Britain to donate money so that they can undertake further humanitarian relief efforts inside Gaza. If HAMAS were any way involved in the add(Funding it, having a spokesperson in it, providing the film) then you'd have reasons to ban it. But as far as I can tell from the OP here is that this appeal was created in Britian for Britians by Britians and it just so happens they want to help out in Gaza which as noted just did get the fuck bombed out of it, does not have power or clean water for much of it's citizens and is in need of assistance.
As i've already stated. The BBC is being consistent with it's policy regarding recent politically charged war zones. Sky are also not airing this add for the same reasons.

In the eyes of the BBC it's too soon for a news organisation to be seen to take sides by advertising aid. Sky News agree.

Whether or not it's the right decision or not, is another matter. But I sympathise and agree with them that it's not the place of a news organisation, commercial broadcasters obviously don't have that worry.
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Re: BBC blocks Gaza Ad

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DEATH wrote:I apologize for using Nazi germany as an example, I was not trying to equate Hamas to being as bad as Nazi germany's government, but I was equating them to one committing illegal acts (war crimes in Germany's case, terrorism and therefore war crimes in the Hammas government's case) regardless of the fact that there is a proven track record money of aid money and supplies being siphoned off for funding/supplying armed groups there, which is why I have issues about whther calls for aid are calls for aid or can be shown as propaganda (Which I can very easily see happening "Look at the destruction! Weeping child! Send money against the invasion now!" It might be fair and balanced, and it easily might not). (which is irrelevant, I know, I can't remember what my point in this was).
Israel's guilty of war crimes. At least three of the four Nuremberg crimes. Should my government be denied the right to send you aid?
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Re: BBC blocks Gaza Ad

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On the bright side, the Saudis and Emirates have already pledged to infuse billions of $$$ into Gaza, so whether or not the BBC airs this ad doesn't look as though it will have much practical effect upon whether or not aid flows to people in Gaza.
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Re: BBC blocks Gaza Ad

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Zac Naloen wrote:
Yes I do. So would you say that you disagree with the BBC airing the ad. mainly because they don't ever air charity ads, or because of the danger of being seen to be political.
I agree with the BBC not airing the add for the reasons given by the BBC.
So not for that reason. You're going with "neutrality"

For instance would you agree with the BBC airing an ad for appeal if Japan was hit by a major earthquake and there was nobody thinking or saying that the Japanese government should have done more for example?
Has Japan recently been involved in a highly politically charged event with accusations flying all over the place as to who supports what and why?[/quote]

Nope. I recognise the analogy does not entirely fit - I was trying to establish the parameters of your objection.
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Re: BBC blocks Gaza Ad

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Illuminatus Primus wrote:
DEATH wrote:I apologize for using Nazi germany as an example, I was not trying to equate Hamas to being as bad as Nazi germany's government, but I was equating them to one committing illegal acts (war crimes in Germany's case, terrorism and therefore war crimes in the Hammas government's case) regardless of the fact that there is a proven track record money of aid money and supplies being siphoned off for funding/supplying armed groups there, which is why I have issues about whther calls for aid are calls for aid or can be shown as propaganda (Which I can very easily see happening "Look at the destruction! Weeping child! Send money against the invasion now!" It might be fair and balanced, and it easily might not). (which is irrelevant, I know, I can't remember what my point in this was).
Israel's guilty of war crimes. At least three of the four Nuremberg crimes. Should my government be denied the right to send you aid?
Really? Put up or shut up. The four charges were: Crimes against Peace (rockets were being lobbed from the Gaza Strip, which makes the crime being on the part of the Palestinians), waging a War of Agression (Good luck defining that, no one has. In any case, the recent action is in response to Palestinian acts of war, and therefore self-defensive in nature), war crimes (Got proof?), and crimes against humanity (another vaguely defined charge).

On the Hamas side, we have:
  • Failure to carry arms openly
  • Not having a fixed distinctive emblem distinguishable at a distance (relates to being able to tell who is a combatant and who is not)
  • Use of protective signs for military purposes (e.g. use of ambulances marked with red crescent for movement of troops and materiel, this is known as perfidy)
  • Use of protected locations for military purposes (e.g. use of mosques for arms caches)
  • Use of human shields
And those are just the easy ones to dig up.
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Re: BBC blocks Gaza Ad

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Yeah, but they're underdogs, so they're allowed to do all that.

At least, I think that's the reasoning.
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Re: BBC blocks Gaza Ad

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* Use of human shields
Israel is quite open about using human shields themselves. Link
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Re: BBC blocks Gaza Ad

Post by Posner »

Kanastrous wrote:Yeah, but they're underdogs, so they're allowed to do all that.

At least, I think that's the reasoning.
I don't condone killing civilians, but in order to fight a guerilla war in an urban setting, even the most restrained of guerilla groups would have to break some rules set out in the Conventions. That has nothing to do with suicide bombing markets, but how else could any guerilla group fight if they didn't, for example, eschew the use of uniforms. In other words even not openly carrying weapons and not wearing uniforms might be against the rules of war, but that alone isn't enough to make a guerilla group immoral. Targeting civilian populations, on the other hand, is.
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Re: BBC blocks Gaza Ad

Post by Beowulf »

Posner wrote:
Kanastrous wrote:Yeah, but they're underdogs, so they're allowed to do all that.

At least, I think that's the reasoning.
I don't condone killing civilians, but in order to fight a guerilla war in an urban setting, even the most restrained of guerilla groups would have to break some rules set out in the Conventions. That has nothing to do with suicide bombing markets, but how else could any guerilla group fight if they didn't, for example, eschew the use of uniforms. In other words even not openly carrying weapons and not wearing uniforms might be against the rules of war, but that alone isn't enough to make a guerilla group immoral. Targeting civilian populations, on the other hand, is.
The requirement is not that they wear a uniform, but rather that they display a fixed distinctive emblem. Example, wearing a red feather in your cap, or wearing a red armband. The whole point of the requirement is so that you can distinguish between civilians and combatants. In so doing, you lower the risk of civilian casualties. Failure to adhere to the requirement is morally the same thing as targeting those civilian populations yourself.
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Re: BBC blocks Gaza Ad

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Mr Bean wrote:Hey everybody Death thinks Hamas is just like the Nazi's!
That's actually a pretty good comparison to be made between all the Islamic movements etc. Why is it that they always have mass nazi salutes etc in their rallies etc (At least for HIzbollah).
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Re: BBC blocks Gaza Ad

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^ linky to some pictures...?
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Re: BBC blocks Gaza Ad

Post by Mr Bean »

MKSheppard wrote: That's actually a pretty good comparison to be made between all the Islamic movements etc. Why is it that they always have mass nazi salutes etc in their rallies etc (At least for HIzbollah).
No question that Hizbollah likes to scare up publicity by doing things like celebrating Hitler's birthday and bemoaning the fact that he "left the job have finished".

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