Repealing Don’t Ask Don’t Tell Would Be a Disaster?

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Repealing Don’t Ask Don’t Tell Would Be a Disaster?

Post by Max »

Only if you're an ex-gay pornstar who rubs elbows with Coulter..
By Matt Sanchez
War Correspondent and Political Commentator

It’s been one week since Barack Obama was sworn in as commander-in-chief and the new president has not hesitated to push his agenda–the repeal of Don’t Ask Don’t Tell.


Although “the primary purpose of the armed forces is to prepare for and to prevail in combat should the need arise”, forcing the military to legitimize same-sex relationships will be a Trojan Horse for imposing gay marriage nationwide and all in the name of “change.”

Gay activists have a mission for the military and it’s not national defense.

The repeal of Don’t Ask Don’t Tell (DADT) would force the United States military to accept the future same-sex marriages of those serving. Activists would use this federal recognition of gay marriage in the military to challenge and force a repeal of state constitutional amendments, but wedding bells are not the only reason why gay advocates and military officials should not be heading to the altar.

A 2008 Military Times poll of members of the armed forces found that the troops were opposed to the repeal of Don’t Ask Don’t Tell by a margin of 2 to 1.

The queer thing about Don’t Ask Don’t Tell is that President Bill Clinton mandated the policy after numerous campaign promises to the Clinton lesbian, gay and transgender constituency. Don’t Ask Don’t Tell was designed to protect those who serve and participate in the LGBT lifestyle against unfair prosecution from their superiors.

The compromise was this: You keep your private life private and we won’t bother you.

Americans are a fair people who understand that some men and women in uniform may have same-sex relationships or self-identify as gay and lesbian. Most Americans do not condone discrimination, but they understand national defense is paramount. Not everyone agrees.

The Servicemembers Legal Defense Network (SLDN)–a national, non-profit legal services–would like to see gay pride extended to the military to advocate the LGBT cause and they’re not the only ones.

Many pro-gay groups hold up the example of international armed forces throughout the world that have lifted bans on homosexuality.

It is true: France, Germany, Italy and Spain all permit openly gay service members. But in Afghanistan, neither France, Spain, Italy or Germany will confront the Taliban. For many nations, the military has become more of a social symbol rather than a true fighting force. This is not the politically correct example for the American military to follow.

“There are just Marines,” is what drill instructors tell their young recruits in order to leapfrog the cultural, social, regional, economic and ethnic differences between the thousands of young strangers who are forged into the U.S. Marine Corps. Most Marines will agree, there are no “black” Marines, “white” Marines, “Asian” Marines, “Latin” Marines or “gay” Marines–there are just Marines.

This is counter-intuitive in our current culture of celebrity, hyphenated Americans, color coded Americans and the endless examples of self-promotion that parade through the media every day.

Despite what gay advocates call an “oppressive” job environment, most of the gay veterans I’ve spoken with over the years recall their time in service with nostalgia and pride.

The military workplace has no civilian equivalent. The military rigorously separates male and females, to avoid loss of morale and fraternization. However the rules permit heterosexual men and women to date. “Office romances” take on a drastically different meaning when the tools of the trade include heavy equipment, explosive devices and semi-automatic weapons. If infantrymen in an all-male combat unit hooked up, would that cause a problem with crucial unit cohesion? Will gay service members have to be separated from their non-gay service members? Will separate showers and living quarters be required? Or will there be all-gay military units? Will gays who don’t wish to self-identify be forced to do so?

Gay activists have a mission for the military and it’s not national defense. Gay groups want Americans who have had sex changes to also be permitted to join the armed forces.

In the tireless quest for equality, the Servicemembers Legal Defense Network told me, via e-mail, that the non-profit is “working with other organizations to address the medical and grooming regulations which prohibit service for transgender people.”

The new commander-in-chief can unilaterally repeal Don’t ask Don’t Tell with a stroke of a pen, but he has held back. After winning the election in 2008 Obama said he:

“…first wants to confer with the Joint Chiefs of Staff and his new political appointees at the Pentagon to reach a consensus, and then present legislation to Congress.”

With two wars and danger clearly present, Americans and the Obama administration will have to ask if the mission of protecting the country should take a back seat to the agenda of promoting social change.
++foxforum.blogs.foxnews.com/2009/01/28/sanchez_obama/

So France, Germany, Italy and Spain won't confront the Taliban because of...the gays?

Ugh...just be glad anybody wants to serve in the military after the foolishness of the last eight years.
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Re: Repealing Don’t Ask Don’t Tell Would Be a Disaster?

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The military rigorously separates male and females, to avoid loss of morale and fraternization.
Thus confirming without doubt that this guy knows nothing about the military.
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Re: Repealing Don’t Ask Don’t Tell Would Be a Disaster?

Post by General Zod »

Is there anything in this steaming right wing pile of bullshit that hasn't already been addressed thousands of times already? It's nothing but fear mongering and some bizarre slippery slopes. Though they are at least right on one thing. Allowing openly gay personnel will eventually require to legitimize gay marriage, or else you'll be denying an entire class of servicemen benefits everyone else receives. That probably terrifies the shit out of the religious whackaloons.
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Re: Repealing Don’t Ask Don’t Tell Would Be a Disaster?

Post by Morilore »

Retard wrote:Gay activists have a mission for the military and it’s not national defense.
If you know what I mean :wink:

This article is hilarious because it weeps repressed-gay panic/arousal. Then again, according to Max the author is an "ex-gay pornstar" so I suppose that's to be expected.
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Re: Repealing Don’t Ask Don’t Tell Would Be a Disaster?

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General Zod wrote:Allowing openly gay personnel will eventually require to legitimize gay marriage, or else you'll be denying an entire class of servicemen benefits everyone else receives. That probably terrifies the shit out of the religious whackaloons.
What makes you think this is any different to denying the right of marrage to every other gay or lesbian in the country. Being in the military makes no difference.
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Re: Repealing Don’t Ask Don’t Tell Would Be a Disaster?

Post by Kanastrous »

The military's aura as defenders-of-the-nation would lend extra weight to the argument for extension of marriage protections, for some people, if the military changes its policy.
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Re: Repealing Don’t Ask Don’t Tell Would Be a Disaster?

Post by General Zod »

Lost Soal wrote: What makes you think this is any different to denying the right of marrage to every other gay or lesbian in the country. Being in the military makes no difference.
Are you forgetting the American worship of its servicemen? I can guarantee the moment generals and admirals start bitching out the government for not giving its troops equal rights, heads will roll on the issue. We've already seen a drastic shift as top brass are starting to publicly agree that Don't Ask Don't Tell is a retarded policy.
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Re: Repealing Don’t Ask Don’t Tell Would Be a Disaster?

Post by Ender »

Lost Soal wrote:
General Zod wrote:Allowing openly gay personnel will eventually require to legitimize gay marriage, or else you'll be denying an entire class of servicemen benefits everyone else receives. That probably terrifies the shit out of the religious whackaloons.
What makes you think this is any different to denying the right of marrage to every other gay or lesbian in the country. Being in the military makes no difference.
In civilian life, this discrepancy must be addressed through the long battle going on in this country. In the military, such discrepancies are addressed by the command to "unfuck yourself now". Additionally, in civilian life there is no direct cost to those who deny gays marriage rights. In the military, doing away with BAH amounts to essentially cutting the pay in half of everyone who has been in for more than one term.

Exactly how much support do you think the repressive nuts would enjoy if their argument was "Hey, you lose about half your paycheck... but on the upside, we get to put down the gays!"?
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Re: Repealing Don’t Ask Don’t Tell Would Be a Disaster?

Post by Illuminatus Primus »

Ender wrote:
The military rigorously separates male and females, to avoid loss of morale and fraternization.
Thus confirming without doubt that this guy knows nothing about the military.
You servicemen should confront tards like this. "Really? How much time have you spent in uniform deployed abroad?"
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Re: Repealing Don’t Ask Don’t Tell Would Be a Disaster?

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How about the poll he cites; is it valid, and a cause for concern?
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Re: Repealing Don’t Ask Don’t Tell Would Be a Disaster?

Post by General Zod »

Darth Hoth wrote:How about the poll he cites; is it valid, and a cause for concern?
I'd say the cause for concern is minimal, even though it is a valid poll. (Approximately 58% said they were against repealing DADT). But by the same token, how many troops were against racial integration?
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Re: Repealing Don’t Ask Don’t Tell Would Be a Disaster?

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Darth Hoth wrote:How about the poll he cites; is it valid, and a cause for concern?
It's about as valid as any newspaper poll. Which is to say, not really. It representative of those in the service who (1) have enough time on their hands to spend the time reading the Military Times (remfs) and (2) get worked up about gays to take the time to respond. Also, Military times polls aren't closed to active duty, most of the letters to the editor and such you see are reservists and retired. So the poll is likely skewed by that as well. So if you want to use that to estimate what the reaction will be of those who are actually doing the work over there, I don't think it is a valid measure. There will be resistance, of that I don't doubt. But I think the sheer demand for guys to do the job will work out. There is also the fact that when most people think "gay", the stereotype is the extremely effeminate man. The military being what it is, I expect that those gays who choose to serve will more likely be what I am given to understand are called "bears" - hypermasculine guys. This will go a long way towards breaking down stereotypes in peoples minds faster.

I expect there will be some problems, but I think that when this has run its course the integration will be smoother than it was when racial barriers were abolished. I am curious as to what they are going to do about the berthing situation though.
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Re: Repealing Don’t Ask Don’t Tell Would Be a Disaster?

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Ender wrote: I expect there will be some problems, but I think that when this has run its course the integration will be smoother than it was when racial barriers were abolished. I am curious as to what they are going to do about the berthing situation though.
The fact that there's no way of telling who's gay or not just by looking alone will likely make this significantly smoother than racial integration.
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Re: Repealing Don’t Ask Don’t Tell Would Be a Disaster?

Post by Rye »

Huh. So the gays serving in the British armed forces in Helmand and elsewhere are overlooked because it's inconvenient for his point? That's annoying as fuck.
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Re: Repealing Don’t Ask Don’t Tell Would Be a Disaster?

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>foxnews

Stopped reading there.
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Re: Repealing Don’t Ask Don’t Tell Would Be a Disaster?

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It is true: France, Germany, Italy and Spain all permit openly gay service members. But in Afghanistan, neither France, Spain, Italy or Germany will confront the Taliban. For many nations, the military has become more of a social symbol rather than a true fighting force. This is not the politically correct example for the American military to follow.
Conveniently leaves out any mention of Canada which has openly gay members serving and confronts the Taliban quite regularly and successfully.
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Re: Repealing Don’t Ask Don’t Tell Would Be a Disaster?

Post by General Zod »

Korvan wrote:
It is true: France, Germany, Italy and Spain all permit openly gay service members. But in Afghanistan, neither France, Spain, Italy or Germany will confront the Taliban. For many nations, the military has become more of a social symbol rather than a true fighting force. This is not the politically correct example for the American military to follow.
Conveniently leaves out any mention of Canada which has openly gay members serving and confronts the Taliban quite regularly and successfully.
The fact that it neatly implies that the reasons they don't fight in Afghanistan is because of gay members rather than any other legitimate reason that they might have without outright saying it is rather disingenuous, and typical dishonest bullfuckery from types like this.
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Re: Repealing Don’t Ask Don’t Tell Would Be a Disaster?

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Ender wrote:It's about as valid as any newspaper poll. Which is to say, not really. It representative of those in the service who (1) have enough time on their hands to spend the time reading the Military Times (remfs) and (2) get worked up about gays to take the time to respond. Also, Military times polls aren't closed to active duty, most of the letters to the editor and such you see are reservists and retired. So the poll is likely skewed by that as well. So if you want to use that to estimate what the reaction will be of those who are actually doing the work over there, I don't think it is a valid measure. There will be resistance, of that I don't doubt. But I think the sheer demand for guys to do the job will work out. There is also the fact that when most people think "gay", the stereotype is the extremely effeminate man. The military being what it is, I expect that those gays who choose to serve will more likely be what I am given to understand are called "bears" - hypermasculine guys. This will go a long way towards breaking down stereotypes in peoples minds faster.

I expect there will be some problems, but I think that when this has run its course the integration will be smoother than it was when racial barriers were abolished. I am curious as to what they are going to do about the berthing situation though.
I do not know enough to say; I never read up on this in detail. From what I have seen in the military here in Sweden, a country which qualifies as more or less Sodom and Gomorrah by American standards, its culture is rather anti-homosexual. This when the government spends literally tens of millions (converted to $US) on sensitivity training and related stuff (with a total deployable ground army the size of roughly one division). Only anecdotal evidence, though.
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Re: Repealing Don’t Ask Don’t Tell Would Be a Disaster?

Post by CmdrWilkens »

I can't speak to anything other than anecdotal evidence but what I can speak to is that with the units I served with job competency was FAR more important than any other issue. It would take me multiple hands to run through the list of guys who wound up with mild discipline and essentially a "you fucked up now get back to work" respons to their out of regs actiosn because they were that good at their job. I know we had an article on here at one point about some Navy Intel guys who the CO knew they were gay but said fuck it because the job needed doing.

Moreso than anything else that is what it will come down to. The culture of being in the military won't change (there is still a shit load of gender and racial bias) but I think it will come to embrace the gay lifestyle jut fine. The best, admittedly fictional, recoutn I can provide comes in the voiceover at the end of the 3rd "Gneration Kill" episode. The guy, and I'm forgetting names here, admits that he is a racist fuck...but at the same time his squad mates who are Latino or Black they are part of his family. My own unit had guys who literaly ran with gangs in parts of Philly and others who were members of the Aryan Nation...when we went to Iraq it all went out the door. I rather suspect the same thing would happen with gay servicemembers, they will be judge by whether they man up and do their work not on who they fuck on the weekend.
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