Culture-Themed Charter Schools

[Coyote]

Found this today at MSNBC

Debate rages over NYC Hebrew charter school
Some ask if public institutions should celebrate one particular culture

NEW YORK - Two years after the debut of a controversial public school focusing on Arabic language and culture, a Hebrew language charter school is opening in New York City, stoking further debate about the purpose of a public school education.

Backers of the Hebrew Language Academy Charter School, slated to open this fall, say it will appeal to diverse ethnic and religious groups and not just Jews. But critics here and elsewhere around the nation question whether public schools should celebrate one particular culture.

"They're trying to transmit cultural values and identity, and that's not the purpose of a public school," said Michael Meyers, executive director of the New York Civil Rights Coalition.

Last month the American Civil Liberties Union filed a lawsuit over a school in Minnesota that caters to Muslim students, and a Hebrew charter school in Florida has spurred debates over church-state separation.

New York City's Hebrew charter school is planned for the Mill Basin neighborhood of Brooklyn, which has a substantial number of Jews, including immigrants from the former Soviet Union but is three-quarters black, Hispanic and Asian.

Sara Berman, chairwoman of the school's board, said Jewish and non-Jewish students alike will benefit from learning Hebrew.

"We really believe that learning a second language helps children in other ways besides the language itself," she said, citing studies that suggest that language instruction stimulates brain development.

One dissenting vote
The state Board of Regents approved the Hebrew charter school on Jan. 13 with one dissenting vote.

"Any opportunity for your child to learn a second language, whether it's Hebrew or any other language, is beneficial," said Maureen Gonzalez-Campbell, the principal, who is African-American and speaks no Hebrew herself.

Gonzalez-Campbell, 48, said parents will be attracted to the charter school's low student-teacher ratio — there will be one English-speaking teacher and one Hebrew-speaking teacher in each classroom — and academic rigor.

The Hebrew charter school, which does not have a site yet, is due to open with 150 students in kindergarten and first grade and will grow to 450 in grades K-5.

Like other charter schools, it will be taxpayer-funded. But it expects to raise additional money from private donors and has commitments of $500,000 a year from philanthropist Michael Steinhardt and $250,000 a year from the Charles and Lynn Schusterman Family Foundation.

Promoting Jewish religion?
Steinhardt, the father of Berman, the school's chairwoman, founded the Steinhardt Foundation for Jewish Life in 1994 with the goal of revitalizing Jewish identity.

But Berman said the charter school will not promote the Jewish religion, instead using secular texts to teach modern Hebrew.

Berman, whose own children attend a Jewish day school in Manhattan, is a former columnist for the New York Sun, a now-defunct daily that led the opposition to the Khalil Gibran International Academy, with its curriculum emphasizing the study of Arabic language and culture.

That school opened in September 2007 after its first choice for a principal, Debbie Almontaser, was forced to resign over comments she had made about the word "intifada." Critics said Almontaser should have condemned the use of the word, which commonly refers to the Palestinian uprising against Israel, on T-shirts made by a youth organization. Almontaser has sued to get her job back; the lawsuit is pending.

Controversy arose more recently in Minnesota, where the ACLU sued over the Tarek ibn Ziyad Academy, a charter school with two campuses in the Minneapolis-St. Paul area.

The ACLU contends that the Minnesota school violates the separation of church and state by permitting prayer sessions during school hours and by giving preference to Muslim clothing rules. Female teachers, for example, have to be covered from neck to wrist and ankle.

Not the first
The Brooklyn Hebrew school will not be the nation's first Hebrew charter school. The Ben Gamla Hebrew Charter School in Hollywood, Fla., prompted fierce debates when it opened in 2007. It serves kosher meals and its director is a rabbi, but an expert hired by the district deemed Ben Gamla's lesson plans "entirely appropriate for a publicly funded charter school."

The Brooklyn school satisfied the New York state regents that it will not violate the U.S. Constitution, but critics haven't been silenced.

Diane Ravitch, a professor of education at New York University and a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution, said in an op-ed piece in New York's Daily News that she objected to the Hebrew school for the same reasons she objected to the Khalil Gibran school, because a public school should not be "centered on the teaching of a single non-American culture."

"We don't send children to public schools to learn to be Chinese or Russian or Greek or Korean," Ravitch said. "We send them to learn to be American."

Okay, now let's give this the benefit of the doubt and accept that this is a school (like another Hebrew themed charter school mentioned in the article) that is providing a quality education that meets public-funding statutes. The question here is one of culturally-themed charter schools getting public money-- it is unfortunate that this is a Hebrew school, and it is being compared to an Arabic school, because that can cloud the issue into one of "Religion" or "Arab-Israeli politics". The issue seems, to me, to be one of culture-themed schools. Chinese, Korean, Russian and Greek is also mentioned, for example.

My thoughts on this are-- "what's wrong with it?" As long as the education isn't pushing a religion, and the kids are learning, and meeting the required grade levels, the fact that they are getting in-depth insight into another culture (whatever that culture may be) is, to me, a bonus. Americans have a horrible reputation for being ignorant as all donkey fuck about other cultures, and never learning other languages. I think that the call to shut down culture-themed schools getting public money is, in the long run, protecting Americans' right to continue being ignorant ("We're here to make 'em into 'Merrikuns, Gawd-dammit!").

Or am I totally wrong on that? Are culture-themed schools a bad idea, and public money should be denied to these institutions?

[Count Chocula]

If someone wants to learn about Catholicism, Judaism, Mormonism, Wipe-Your-Assitism, or any other faith, there are private schools aplenty to do so. I'm putting my son into a Catholic private school because it's the best damn school in the county I've seen, and I'll be paying for it myself. So be it.

Charter schools are still public schools, supported with taxpayer funds, and religion of any type is rather rigidly excluded from public schools. I expect this school's charter will be challenged in short order. Frankly, I'm surprised the Arabic-culture charter school is still getting funds.

[Coyote]

Okay, this is what I was afraid of: people seeing the "Hebrew" and going into automatic "t3h r3lig10n iz t3h 3v1l!" Note that there is another Hebrew-language school mentioned in the article that is providing a SECULAR EDUCATION that focuses on a particular CULTURE. It is, specifically, not intended as a school for Judaism (although Judaism will undoubtedly be a subject that is taught about).

I wish this had been about, say, a Korean culture school that teaches Korean language, culture, history, etc, rather than a Hebrew one, because the reflex here will be "Religion! Rage virus attack!" when that is not necessarily the case.

I'd be perfectly fine with a school that taught Arabic culture, history, language, etc. I understand that in teaching about the culture, the Islamic religion's role and influence will undoubtedly come up (to pretend otherwise is to be equally ignorant in another direction). The same could be said about a culture-themed school that teaches Chinese immersion: you'll learn about Buddhism, you'll learn about Confucianism, and you'll learn abiout Communism, because that's part of learning about China.

[Solauren]

Quite frankly, I'm opposed to this on the basis it's putting one culture/religion/group ahead of another, using public tax funds.

It's a public school. It therefore, by definition, should not be prioritizing one group over another.

Now, if they want to offer a Hebrew-themed course, and there is interest, that's fine. Same with any other group-themed course that is not criminal, racist or the like (i.e no pro KKK courses).

However, making that part of the school over all? No.

If you want to be a group-themed/biases/prioritizing institution of any kind, do it on private funds.

Simple as that.

[Count Chocula]

Hmmm, I did indeed equate charter schools teaching Hebrew language/culture or Arabic language/culture as teaching the religion as well. My bad. If I'm interpreting this correctly, there seems to be nothing that would prohibit, say, a Spanish or Chinese language/culture charter school, either.

I still oppose both schools, however, for the points Solauren mentioned. I do not see the utility of allowing publicly-funded schools to teach any specific non-American culture to students as a priority.

[Kanastrous]

^^ what Solauren said.

[Darth Wong]

My thoughts on this are-- "what's wrong with it?"

It facilitates the self-segregation mentality that is all too common among ethnic minorities.

I hope I don't need to explain why minority self-segregation is harmful for social cohesion. Frankly, these schools are a bad idea even if they're privately funded. Paying for them with taxpayer dollars is utterly insane.

[Guardsman Bass]

My thoughts on this are-- "what's wrong with it?"

It facilitates the self-segregation mentality that is all too common among ethnic minorities.

I hope I don't need to explain why minority self-segregation is harmful for social cohesion. Frankly, these schools are a bad idea even if they're privately funded. Paying for them with taxpayer dollars is utterly insane.

That's a good point. You're already seeing some of this in Minnesota among the recently immigrated. I'm concerned that they'll basically turn into a tool for parents of a particular sub-culture worried about their children coming into contact with "bad influences".

Of course, if it's a choice between a shitty public school and the above, I'd take the above, but still . . .

[Spyder]

It facilitates the self-segregation mentality that is all too common among ethnic minorities.

I hope I don't need to explain why minority self-segregation is harmful for social cohesion. Frankly, these schools are a bad idea even if they're privately funded. Paying for them with taxpayer dollars is utterly insane.

Schools are quite possibly the worst places to engage in this. The #1 means of breaking down generations old hatred is putting the kids together. It's not as easy for parents to indoctrinate their kids to hate those they share lunches with every day.

[hongi]

I hope I don't need to explain why minority self-segregation is harmful for social cohesion. Frankly, these schools are a bad idea even if they're privately funded. Paying for them with taxpayer dollars is utterly insane.

I don't like the idea of self-segregating communities, but lets say the majority of students at this Hebrew school are not Jewish but black, Hispanic and Asian. If it's really not going to cater for students of one ethnicity, how will it promote ethnic/minority segregation? Same goes for the Arabic schools. I think learning about other cultures is a valuable thing right now.

[Darth Wong]

I hope I don't need to explain why minority self-segregation is harmful for social cohesion. Frankly, these schools are a bad idea even if they're privately funded. Paying for them with taxpayer dollars is utterly insane.

I don't like the idea of self-segregating communities, but lets say the majority of students at this Hebrew school are not Jewish but black, Hispanic and Asian. If it's really not going to cater for students of one ethnicity, how will it promote ethnic/minority segregation? Same goes for the Arabic schools. I think learning about other cultures is a valuable thing right now.

First, I seriously doubt that Jews would be a minority at a Hebrew school. But in any case, such schools would not teach cultural diversity, because they are designed to be mono-cultural. That's the whole point I'm making.

[Rye]

My thoughts on this are-- "what's wrong with it?"

It facilitates the self-segregation mentality that is all too common among ethnic minorities.

I hope I don't need to explain why minority self-segregation is harmful for social cohesion. Frankly, these schools are a bad idea even if they're privately funded. Paying for them with taxpayer dollars is utterly insane.

It should even be obvious to jews, what with all the genetic ailments that are more common in their community due to isolationism (read: inbreeding). Tay-Sachs is the well known one, but there's actually several. Even if you ignore that, separating children into the religio-ethnic groups of their parents with very little overlap with other groups is a social timebomb. It's better that they grasp diversity through experience, not monoculturalism from an early age.

[Coyote]

People should go to different schools to avoid inbreeding? That's a new one. So all the Black kids can grow up to marry Jews and pass on Tay-Sachs to their offspring, and all the Jewish kids can grow up to marry Blacks, and adopt sickle-cell anemia.

Seriously, note that in the article there were multi-cultural adults that thought the idea of kids learning another culture through immersion was a good idea, and again I want to re-re-re-interate that this isn't a "Jewish" thing vs. everyone else, this is a culture school which could as easily be Greek or Russian or Chinese or what have you. Note that the school is not closed off to non-Jews (or non-Russians, were it a Russian school, or non-Chinese, were it a Chinese school, etc).

So if anything, you could have little Moishe the Jewish boy, and little Ivan the Russian boy and little Chyou the Chinese girl all learning about Arabic culture in the Arabic school, and then years later when they hear some redneck say "all them damn Ay-rabs is terrirists" they know better and can correct that sort of comment. Remember that in these cases, or at least the example stated in the article, says that perfectly acceptable secular education standards are being met, and that it is awareness but not recruiting or indoctrinating.

The acculturation argument makes sense, I admit, but arguments against this based on "inbreeding" seem fabricated at best. Would a "cultural track" program in regular public schools be better? A student at some point in the education process picks a favored region for intensive study, and their course loads orient towards that culture and language?

[Darth Wong]

People should go to different schools to avoid inbreeding? That's a new one.

Yeah. You also made it up whole-cloth because nobody said that. It was only said that Jews of all people, with their genetic history, should know the dangers of isolation. And that's what these specialized schools would do.

[General Zod]

Seriously, note that in the article there were multi-cultural adults that thought the idea of kids learning another culture through immersion was a good idea, and again I want to re-re-re-interate that this isn't a "Jewish" thing vs. everyone else, this is a culture school which could as easily be Greek or Russian or Chinese or what have you. Note that the school is not closed off to non-Jews (or non-Russians, were it a Russian school, or non-Chinese, were it a Chinese school, etc).

Maybe it's not closed off, but how many parents who aren't Jewish would seriously enroll their children in a school that's advertised as being culture-specific and not from their culture?

[Coyote]

Maybe it's not closed off, but how many parents who aren't Jewish would seriously enroll their children in a school that's advertised as being culture-specific and not from their culture?

I think it'd depend a lot on local demographics. If you're in a region where there's enough people of a particular culture to make this sort of school popular, you probably live in a high-density population area with a lot of variety. Even cities with "Little Italy" or "Chinatown" or similar traditional neighborhoods will only have so much of a footprint, and will include non-members of that culture group on their periphery. A particularly cosmopolitian area of a city might welcome the opportunity to send little Johnny to a school where he can grow up to be more culturally aware and diverse.

It probably wouldn't fly in low-density areas or the rural West like Idaho or Wyoming, etc, but at the same time a lot of people send their kids to religious schools (mostly Catholic) because they see the quality of education as superior, or the school as safer.

Bear in mind a lot of families might want to see their kids go to a school that they perceive will give their kids an edge in future competition. I could see schools that orient on China and Mandarin language learning as a plum opportunity to make sure Little Johnny has the skills to get ahead later in life.

[General Zod]

It probably wouldn't fly in low-density areas or the rural West like Idaho or Wyoming, etc, but at the same time a lot of people send their kids to religious schools (mostly Catholic) because they see the quality of education as superior, or the school as safer.

Religious schools are also generally funded through private funds, not taxpayer dollars. That's really the big point of contention here. If it were private money people wouldn't be giving a shit.

[Darth Wong]

It probably wouldn't fly in low-density areas or the rural West like Idaho or Wyoming, etc, but at the same time a lot of people send their kids to religious schools (mostly Catholic) because they see the quality of education as superior, or the school as safer.

Religious schools are also generally funded through private funds, not taxpayer dollars. That's really the big point of contention here. If it were private money people wouldn't be giving a shit.

That's not true. There is a lot of consternation about privately funded Muslim schools.

[General Zod]

That's not true. There is a lot of consternation about privately funded Muslim schools.

I wasn't really aware of that, though I can't say I'm terribly surprised given the general western attitude towards Islam recently.

[Lusankya]

How does this kind of school compare to a regular bilingual school? I'm guessing it's something more than that, or there wouldn't be this controversy. Unless the problem's just that they're such religiously charged languages and are thus more prone to self-segregation than other languages?

[Rye]

People should go to different schools to avoid inbreeding?

No, people should go to schools with diverse populations so they're more likely to mix with other people in future. There's a real problem in more orthodox jewish communities with insular behaviour. There's an interesting thing on how they've responded to these problems; of course, the idea of mixing with non-jews was never really considered, so the organisation that you may have heard of called Dor Yeshorim was set up to screen jews and give them intra-cultural eugenics to avoid recessive genetic problems. This way, they could keep up with the cultural norms of "keeping to their own kind" without as many overt health problems as a result. The repugnant "cultural purity" is still there, though.

Seriously, note that in the article there were multi-cultural adults that thought the idea of kids learning another culture through immersion was a good idea, and again I want to re-re-re-interate that this isn't a "Jewish" thing vs. everyone else, this is a culture school which could as easily be Greek or Russian or Chinese or what have you. Note that the school is not closed off to non-Jews (or non-Russians, were it a Russian school, or non-Chinese, were it a Chinese school, etc).

The same applies there. Insular culturalism is cancerous. It's tribalism, and in this case, it's also the formation of hegemony, i.e. a cultural norm in the minds of children that will keep them separate from others. It's like Northern Ireland and catholics never mixing with protestants.

So if anything, you could have little Moishe the Jewish boy, and little Ivan the Russian boy and little Chyou the Chinese girl all learning about Arabic culture in the Arabic school, and then years later when they hear some redneck say "all them damn Ay-rabs is terrirists" they know better and can correct that sort of comment. Remember that in these cases, or at least the example stated in the article, says that perfectly acceptable secular education standards are being met, and that it is awareness but not recruiting or indoctrinating.

We already have faith schools, and that does not happen at all; people of a certain group all send their kids to the same school, reinforcing differences with different groups through isolation, rather than normalising them through day to day experience and acceptance.

[Darth Wong]

Coyote is obviously grasping at straws in an attempt to justify these schools. It's pretty perverse to claim that mono-culture schools will somehow help kids learn to appreciate cultural diversity. That's like saying I can teach a kid to appreciate culinary diversity by feeding him a diet of 100% Mexican food instead of 100% Midwestern American food.

[Coyote]

If all American schools were required to do this, I could see the problem. But of all American school kids, only a handful will go to these schools; those children are likely in culturally diverse areas to begin with.

I see the result of this is that small pockets of children will grow up to be very well-immersed in comprehending at least one culture outside America. It will make them, perhaps, overly-specialized in that target culture, which may be a drawback.

EDIT: Bear in th epublic school system as it is does not do a very good job about teaching comprehension of ther cultures or languages, leading to widespread ignorance about the world in US society, which is usually a bad thing.

[Coyote]

People should go to different schools to avoid inbreeding?

No, people should go to schools with diverse populations so they're more likely to mix with other people in future. There's a real problem in more orthodox jewish communities with insular behaviour. There's an interesting thing on how they've responded to these problems; of course, the idea of mixing with non-jews was never really considered, so the organisation that you may have heard of called Dor Yeshorim was set up to screen jews and give them intra-cultural eugenics to avoid recessive genetic problems. This way, they could keep up with the cultural norms of "keeping to their own kind" without as many overt health problems as a result. The repugnant "cultural purity" is still there, though.

If I were defending Jewish Racial Purity, which I am not (and neither is this school), then the head of steam you've worked up here might have some merit. But you are turning this into something it isn't: as I mentioned, from the article, another Hebrew-themed school was offering the same thing, open to anyone who wanted to come, and provided a quality secular education. Let me know when you're back on topic and not confusing this with the Kahane movement, mmm'kay?

Seriously, note that in the article there were multi-cultural adults that thought the idea of kids learning another culture through immersion was a good idea, and again I want to re-re-re-interate that this isn't a "Jewish" thing vs. everyone else, this is a culture school which could as easily be Greek or Russian or Chinese or what have you. Note that the school is not closed off to non-Jews (or non-Russians, were it a Russian school, or non-Chinese, were it a Chinese school, etc).

The same applies there. Insular culturalism is cancerous. It's tribalism, and in this case, it's also the formation of hegemony, i.e. a cultural norm in the minds of children that will keep them separate from others. It's like Northern Ireland and catholics never mixing with protestants.

Or the American school system never teaching American kids about other kids, 'cause it's not "'Merrikan! Fuck yeah!" so all the little American kids can grow up to think that "all them furriners is a buncha queers and pinkos". And again, note that the school does not bar non-Jews from enrolling. There is no segregation at the school. Your criticism in "racial segregation" and "ghettoization" would hold water if, indeed, that were happening.

So if anything, you could have little Moishe the Jewish boy, and little Ivan the Russian boy and little Chyou the Chinese girl all learning about Arabic culture in the Arabic school, and then years later when they hear some redneck say "all them damn Ay-rabs is terrirists" they know better and can correct that sort of comment. Remember that in these cases, or at least the example stated in the article, says that perfectly acceptable secular education standards are being met, and that it is awareness but not recruiting or indoctrinating.

We already have faith schools, and that does not happen at all; people of a certain group all send their kids to the same school, reinforcing differences with different groups through isolation, rather than normalising them through day to day experience and acceptance.

Not sure what you mean here; are you again confusing this with a "faith" school because the culture learning being done is "Hebrew"? I was making the comparison that people might send kids to a "culture school" because they feel the school offers better education standards or is safer, and that sometimes non-Catholic parents send their kids to Catholic schools for those reasons.

Look at it this way-- if you live in a neighborhood with three schools; the public one which has a crappy reputation and has drug deals going on openly in th ehalls, and where kids get into gang fights routinely... or the Catholic school which is clean and has a good reputation academically, but requires kids to go to Mass and do confessionals and all that church stuff... or you have the local "Culture School" which in this case is oriented towards an in-depth study of Korean language, culture, history, and traditions.... why would you argue that the "Korean School" is a worse choice than, say, the Catholic school.

Certainly, under normal circumstances you'd prefer the public school above all else, but if the local school is such a poor choice that you're willing to consider options, why would a "culture school" be so anathema?

Bear in mind it's not a "Korean supremacy school" or "Korean racial segregation school" like you're projecting onto the above example of the Hebrew school, but an ordinary school with a program oriented towards Korea. The door is open to anyone who wants to come and learn about Korea, and no one is turned away; race, culture, etc is not an issue.

[Imperial Overlord]

If all American schools were required to do this, I could see the problem. But of all American school kids, only a handful will go to these schools; those children are likely in culturally diverse areas to begin with.

I see the result of this is that small pockets of children will grow up to be very well-immersed in comprehending at least one culture outside America. It will make them, perhaps, overly-specialized in that target culture, which may be a drawback.

But that's not what is going to happen. Kids are going to be sent to these schools so they don't have mix with other cultures. The district in question is three quarters black, Hispanic, and Asian. Does anyone believe for a second that the overwhelming majority of kids in this Hebrew school won't be Jews?