Pork on the stimulus bill according to the GOP

[General Zod]

sauce

(CNN) -- On Monday, House Republican leaders put out a list of what they call wasteful provisions in the Senate version of the nearly $900 billion stimulus bill that is being debated:

• $2 billion earmark to re-start FutureGen, a near-zero emissions coal power plant in Illinois that the Department of Energy defunded last year because it said the project was inefficient.

• A $246 million tax break for Hollywood movie producers to buy motion picture film.

• $650 million for the digital television converter box coupon program.

• $88 million for the Coast Guard to design a new polar icebreaker (arctic ship).

• $448 million for constructing the Department of Homeland Security headquarters.

• $248 million for furniture at the new Homeland Security headquarters.

• $600 million to buy hybrid vehicles for federal employees.

• $400 million for the Centers for Disease Control to screen and prevent STD's.

• $1.4 billion for rural waste disposal programs.

• $125 million for the Washington sewer system.

• $150 million for Smithsonian museum facilities.

• $1 billion for the 2010 Census, which has a projected cost overrun of $3 billion.

• $75 million for "smoking cessation activities."

• $200 million for public computer centers at community colleges.

• $75 million for salaries of employees at the FBI.

• $25 million for tribal alcohol and substance abuse reduction.

• $500 million for flood reduction projects on the Mississippi River.

• $10 million to inspect canals in urban areas.

• $6 billion to turn federal buildings into "green" buildings.

• $500 million for state and local fire stations.

• $650 million for wildland fire management on forest service lands.

• $1.2 billion for "youth activities," including youth summer job programs.

• $88 million for renovating the headquarters of the Public Health Service.

• $412 million for CDC buildings and property.

• $500 million for building and repairing National Institutes of Health facilities in Bethesda, Maryland.

• $160 million for "paid volunteers" at the Corporation for National and Community Service.

• $5.5 million for "energy efficiency initiatives" at the Department of Veterans Affairs National Cemetery Administration.

• $850 million for Amtrak.

• $100 million for reducing the hazard of lead-based paint.

• $75 million to construct a "security training" facility for State Department Security officers when they can be trained at existing facilities of other agencies.

• $110 million to the Farm Service Agency to upgrade computer systems.

• $200 million in funding for the lease of alternative energy vehicles for use on military installations.

I highlighted some of the ones that got an eyebrow raise from me. I'm inclined to agree that some of these are questionable, but seriously. Why the fuck are so many points that look to be legitimate as far as job creation and saving money in the long run go getting labeled as "wasteful"? This is mind-boggling to me.

[Nephtys]

As a quick estimate, this is only like some 20-odd billion dollars. Half of which could be represented in a certain way. For example, 'buying hybrid vehicles' may be the same as 'buying replacement vehicles' for older automobiles, but the models that will be bought will be hybrids instead of normal cars.

[ray245]

Ah, because of the fact that someone has to be an opposition party, and as an opposition party, your only purpose is to oppose the government all the time.

Well, that's how the Republicans think to do, as an political party, and the same thinking some of one of our local party adopt as well.

[Khaat]

• $88 million for the Coast Guard to design a new polar icebreaker (arctic ship).

After all they've done to promote global warming?! Dammit man, we don't need icebreakers if there's no ice!

Sorry, I'd have kept going with the list, but I have to get some work done...

[lazerus]

• $1 billion for the 2010 Census, which has a projected cost overrun of $3 billion.

How dare the government properly fund the Census! We'll give it a third of the money it needs and then declare it an "Unforeseeable National Emergency" when it runs over -- it's the American way!

[SirNitram]

Not surprised. The House GOP tried it's 'And we give an amendment to completely remove every amendment just voted on, and all previous agreements. AND MAKE IT ALL TAX CUTS WHEE' stunt.

[General Zod]

• $1 billion for the 2010 Census, which has a projected cost overrun of $3 billion.

How dare the government properly fund the Census! We'll give it a third of the money it needs and then declare it an "Unforeseeable National Emergency" when it runs over -- it's the American way!

The census could always get funding through other bills, and not necessarily the stimulus package. In this instance I'm failing to see why the census would be related to economic growth at all given it's relatively non-essential as far as infrastructure goes.

[Solauren]

how many people would it take to conduct the censes? You'd have to hire them to do so, and that would generate short term jobs that would give valuable $ to people that need it.

[Furlong]

Some of these I can understand having issues with, such as the Homeland Defense HQ building, and furnishings for it, but really, if these are the worst things the Republicans could come up with, then I say pass the damn thing already.

[AMT]

how many people would it take to conduct the censes? You'd have to hire them to do so, and that would generate short term jobs that would give valuable $ to people that need it.

Well seeing as how I work for the Census currently, I know we'll be providing, over a period of the next two years, short term work for over 10,000 people in Kentucky.

We're projected to hire about 1.5 million people for the main Census operations through Fall 2010. That doesn't count the incidentals including Quality Control operations (beyond our first look QA we do in house), remote operations in places like Alaska, and the subcontractors who supply us (Almost all office equipment we have, we lease, which means contracts for service and replacements, as well as trucking companies to ship it all. In addition, we purchase a SHIT TON of office supplies, especially paper and toner for printing), as well as the sheer numbers of offices we will lease in commercial districts hungry for our money (and cities hungry for the taxes and money we provide by paying for utilities)

In short, we're a nice little stimulus package, every 2 years (as we conduct smaller operations to test out new equipment and practice for the next census), with a nice BIG stimulus package every decade.

And trust me, you don't get paid minimum wage. No benefits, and the jobs are generall short term (average is 10 weeks-3 months. As a manager I'm in for the medium haul, 2 years). But the pay rates, here in Kentucky, are competetive for the work you do. Plus you get mileage if you're in the field to the tune of 58.5 cents per mile (federal rate, set when gas was 4.00 a gallon. Can't be lowered due to law from what I understand). And, you get paid weekly if not management. All in all, if you work full time for the Census and work really well, you could clear... 5500 pre-tax, not counting mileage. And that's at the LOWEST level of work/pay for field work.

Edited to add: the 5500 figure is based on 40 hours per week for a period of 10 weeks. Different areas may vary for different operations.

[The Spartan]

• A $246 million tax break for Hollywood movie producers to buy motion picture film.

Aside from this how can anyone really have any problem with any of these?

[Surlethe]

From a Testing thread, I think this was an excellent point: the total spending to which the Republicans object is $19.09 billion. That amounts to a good 2.3% of the stimulus package. Guess who's making mountains out of molehills to try to obfuscate the bill's progress?

[Mr Bean]

Let me just ask 248 million for furniture?
Lets assume we went Office Depot. A 300$ executive chair times let say two thousand five hundred employee's is 750,000$ dollars.

Lets say the HQ is bigger, it's 25k people working there. Fine 300$ executive Leather chairs for everyone for just 7.5 mil. And a 1000 dollar desk for everyone just million 25,000,000.


*Edit, Hell I went to office Depot's website, ordering a full office for everyone(Max quantity is 9999) but I bought 500$ chairs, 1000$ offices, 200$ filing cabinets, lamps phones for nine thousand nine hundred and ninety nine people and I'm still only up to 41 million.

Keep in mind all 9999 people in this theortical office have the most expensive floor mat, 1000$ desks(Real wood) a 500$ massage chair(Leather) two guest chairs(One 200$(Leather) one 100$(Rolling) plus another 9999 different chairs for the meeting rooms(150$ each) plus two sets of 9999 cabinets for everyone, plus office supplies plus random grab bag things like phones, wiring (Everyone needs a 100 feet of Cat5 of course) and I bought two thousand 2000$ couches and I've still not broken 50 million.

What in the fly fuck are they buy for this center? It's half the price of the damn building!

[SirNitram]

Area 51 doesn't pay for itself, young man.

[Samuel]

Area 51 doesn't pay for itself, young man.

I thought the secret projects were paid in their own account, and not out of the stimulus package. Maybe the cost involves paying for the movement and installation of the furtniture as well as the warranty plan.

[Mr Bean]

Area 51 doesn't pay for itself, young man.

I thought the secret projects were paid in their own account, and not out of the stimulus package. Maybe the cost involves paying for the movement and installation of the furtniture as well as the warranty plan.

Assuming a 20k offices is still only about one hundred million. That's a poor company if it costs just as much for the install as the office furniture itself and with fifty million left over for warranty.

[Sea Skimmer]

Area 51 doesn't pay for itself, young man.

Wait, you mean UFO research is not in fact funded by selling alien corpses and weapons to private corporations?

[The Spartan]

Let me just ask 248 million for furniture?*snip bulk*

What in the fly fuck are they buy for this center? It's half the price of the damn building!

Are they including computers in the cost of furniture?

(I honestly don't know.)

[SirNitram]

Area 51 doesn't pay for itself, young man.

Wait, you mean UFO research is not in fact funded by selling alien corpses and weapons to private corporations?

Only if you're an international force. I'm sure X-Com sells alot of stuff that vanishes into Site 4.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

It seems that many of the items they are opposing are part of Obama's drive to revamp America's infrastructure. Me thinks that they are just being spiteful?

[Master of Ossus]

Personally, virtually all of those things strike me as being incredibly stupid as part of a "stimulus" package. For instance, I don't know why anyone would argue that we should provide a "stimulus" by giving money to Federal employees to buy hybrid vehicles (as opposed to giving it to the rest of America by like... not taxing people, or alternatively by providing a subsidy or tax deduction for purchasing hybrid vehicles).

[Mr Bean]

Let me just ask 248 million for furniture?*snip bulk*

What in the fly fuck are they buy for this center? It's half the price of the damn building!

Are they including computers in the cost of furniture?

(I honestly don't know.)

Five thousand dollar computers with quadcore I7 chips, 4870x2's, six gigs of ram 24 inch monitors and terabytes of storage for 20k people still only gets you 100 million. A bit more sane systems(1000) plus laptops is still only forty million. So fine, super expensive chairs, backup chairs, guest chairs, couches for everyone, a higher end desktop and laptop for everyone and frigging leather massage chairs still only gets us up to around 100 million. Again I'm assuming this building has twenty thousand people working there.

Maybe the last 43 million is all for the director of the Homeland security to get his solid gold toilets and his own private F-18 for Xenu's sake.

[General Zod]

Personally, virtually all of those things strike me as being incredibly stupid as part of a "stimulus" package. For instance, I don't know why anyone would argue that we should provide a "stimulus" by giving money to Federal employees to buy hybrid vehicles (as opposed to giving it to the rest of America by like... not taxing people, or alternatively by providing a subsidy or tax deduction for purchasing hybrid vehicles).

Someone has to build those hybrids. If they're spending money to replace the vehicles federal employees use with hybrids, then that's a lot of orders for the auto industry to fill, which is already hurting pretty badly.

[Master of Ossus]

Someone has to build those hybrids. If they're spending money to replace the vehicles federal employees use with hybrids, then that's a lot of orders for the auto industry to fill, which is already hurting pretty badly.

But, presumably, if there were a subsidy for hybrids then the hybrids would still be sold, and if the government employee were the highest bidder it could still buy the hybrids at the lower price. Only if there were another buyer who were more willing to pay would there be a different outcome, in which case they would similarly purchase the hybrid but would presumably benefit from having the hybrid more than the Federal employee.

[General Zod]

But, presumably, if there were a subsidy for hybrids then the hybrids would still be sold, and if the government employee were the highest bidder it could still buy the hybrids at the lower price. Only if there were another buyer who were more willing to pay would there be a different outcome, in which case they would similarly purchase the hybrid but would presumably benefit from having the hybrid more than the Federal employee.

On the other hand, saturate enough of the market with hybrids and the manufacturers will have more incentive to convert their lines and phase out the older gas guzzling models. It seems to me that there's less incentive to switch if people could still get regular vehicles cheaper without the subsidy.