List of Bush Administration Crimes?

[born in shadow]

I was just wondering, after hearing about what an amazing president Bush was from my girlfriend's dad, is there a comprehensive listing of all his fuck-ups and crimes during his terms? Either his entire administration or just his crimes, either way is good. I've tried searching, using both google-fu and SD.net's search, but I can't seem to find a good list.

-Aaron, tired of hearing how great Bush's presidency was

[Ziggy Stardust]

It is hard to find any good list, because most of them are written by people who don't know the first thing about what they are talking about, and include all sorts of nonsense and trumped-up charges that make no sense. I don't know enough about legal issues to say specifically what crimes he can/should be charged with, however. In general charges that relate to secret detainment facilities, torture, etc. ("breaking the Geneva conventions," as they say) are a good place to start. You can also make a number of arguments about the abuses of the Department of Justice, the CIA, and the blatant pandering to corporate and lobbyist interests. Unfortunately, I don't know whether any of those can actually be called crimes as opposed to supreme jackassery.

[born in shadow]

Yeah, a lot of the lists I have found had me raising my eyebrows more than a few times. Stuff like "Oh, in 1990-something, this happened. IT'S BUSH'S FAULT!" which doesn't jive well with...you know...reality

I've heard some of the stuff about the breaking of the Geneva Conventions, so I suppose I could start there. Might I ask about the abuses of the Department of Justice and the CIA? I know a few of the corporate and lobbyist interest issues, but the others I'm rather in the dark about.

Sadly, I know people who think Gitmo is a brilliant idea. Their thoughts went like this:
"We have to round up the terrorists! But we can't just murder them, that would be inhumane...and we can't try them because the DAMN LIBERALS will let them go and then they'll DESTROY AMERICA. I guess we'll have to lock them up forever without trial! Ahhh justice!"

-Aaron, loves how the same people say China is days away from invading the US

[Edi]

I was just wondering, after hearing about what an amazing president Bush was from my girlfriend's dad, is there a comprehensive listing of all his fuck-ups and crimes during his terms? Either his entire administration or just his crimes, either way is good. I've tried searching, using both google-fu and SD.net's search, but I can't seem to find a good list.

-Aaron, tired of hearing how great Bush's presidency was

Here's a word of advice: Don't go there. Just leave it the fuck alone, grit your teeth and bear it. Otherwise you're just asking for trouble. Especially if you and she are not independent in the sense of living away from home and financially able to support yourselves. Once you are, then if you both feel it appropriate, you can tell her dad to shut up and sod off, but before that, keep your trap shut. If this is something your GF knows nothing about, going after her dad might just wreck the relationship.

Note that I don't know your circumstances, but the way you phrased that question is setting off all kinds of warning signs that say you have no fucking idea what you are doing.

[Coyote]

What Edi said. You can't reason with someone who is so far gone he thinks Bush was the greatest things since George Washington. I mean, if after 8 years he's still convinced of that, do you really think any information you find now will change anything?

[Ziggy Stardust]

Note that I don't know your circumstances, but the way you phrased that question is setting off all kinds of warning signs that say you have no fucking idea what you are doing.

When I read his post I got the impression he was just curious, and wasn't going to be using it to start some sort of debate with the dad.

But now that Edi mentions it, I am going to have to agree that it is an absurdly bad idea to try and go after him like this. If you do, push will come to shove. The best bet really is to just ignore people like that. Unless the person is in a position of power, it's just an unecessary waste of time to go after their personal beliefs, as they will never back down from them. You will just get into a shouting match. And memorizing a list of Bush's crimes wouldn't do any good, because he will probably have some bullshit he will bring up to dismiss it all anyway.

[born in shadow]

Hah hah, sorry I gave the wrong impression. I have no intention of saying ANY of this to either her, her dad or anyone even remotely connected to that family. I rather like keeping my limbs attached

It's really just more for my own reading/knowledge. If I at least know why what they're babbling about is false, then it makes me feel more informed.

Trust me, I know better than to say "Bush was awful!" to someone so insanely conservative!

-Aaron, seems to have gotten this off to a bad start

[Edi]

In that case, some good stuff to read would be Chain of Command and Fiasco that give a good outline of things. Then read up on the Nûrnberg trials and the Tokyo War Crimes Tribunal for information on what enemies of the US got convicted for and cross referencing that with what the Bush administration has said and done in defense of Gitmo and torture techniques.

Seriously, you need to develop a body of knowledge and the critical thinking skills that allow you to reason, contrast with prior events and detect bullshit. Then it becomes easier to pick apart all the bullshit. And follow the news. Real news, not just the US TV channels.

[Coyote]

Well, bear in mind some of it seems to be relative. After all, some could say that Katrina exposoed "criminal negligence or incompetence" but proving how much of Hurricane Katrina's effect could be laid at Bush's feet becomes quite a task. After all, it's true that the levees were weak when he took office, but it's also true he did nothing about it; and it's not as if he created the Hurricane himself... so in the context of the wars, the economy showing signs of weakening, and things like that, any politician would haeve had trouble trying to gather the money to start repairing levees when no one knew the Hurricane was coming.

Authorizing torture and stuff at Guantanamo can be argued, of couse, and so can the warrantless evesdropping --which, again, some people can find ways to defend because some people really do believe the argument "if you've got nothing to hide, what are you worried about?" makes a good defense.

The war in Iraq-- again, he chose to go to war but he also had to play a hand of cards left to him by Bill Clinton, who picked up the hand dealt to him by Bush Senior, who had started out dealing with Iraq as an ally because they were enemies of Iran due to things that happened back in the Reagan and Carter days... and so on.

He badly bungled just about everything that came across his desk, but unfortunately, being stupid isn't a crime, and proving criminal incompetence can be hard because so many people think he made the right choices (based on what their ideology seeks).

[Aaron]

Yeah, a lot of the lists I have found had me raising my eyebrows more than a few times. Stuff like "Oh, in 1990-something, this happened. IT'S BUSH'S FAULT!" which doesn't jive well with...you know...reality

I've heard some of the stuff about the breaking of the Geneva Conventions, so I suppose I could start there. Might I ask about the abuses of the Department of Justice and the CIA? I know a few of the corporate and lobbyist interest issues, but the others I'm rather in the dark about.

Sadly, I know people who think Gitmo is a brilliant idea. Their thoughts went like this:
"We have to round up the terrorists! But we can't just murder them, that would be inhumane...and we can't try them because the DAMN LIBERALS will let them go and then they'll DESTROY AMERICA. I guess we'll have to lock them up forever without trial! Ahhh justice!"

-Aaron, loves how the same people say China is days away from invading the US

If you want something to look at right now and draw your own conclusions here is a reference guide to the Geneva Conventions. Been a while since I went through it but IIRC it has the whole text of them.

[born in shadow]

In that case, some good stuff to read would be Chain of Command and Fiasco that give a good outline of things. Then read up on the Nûrnberg trials and the Tokyo War Crimes Tribunal for information on what enemies of the US got convicted for and cross referencing that with what the Bush administration has said and done in defense of Gitmo and torture techniques.

Sounds like a very good starting place. I'd seen mentions of Fiasco, so I'll have to cobble my pennies together for those two.

Seriously, you need to develop a body of knowledge and the critical thinking skills that allow you to reason, contrast with prior events and detect bullshit. Then it becomes easier to pick apart all the bullshit. And follow the news. Real news, not just the US TV channels.

I'm workin' on all that, believe me If there's one thing I've learned, it's that you shouldn't trust everything you see on TV!

If you want something to look at right now and draw your own conclusions here is a reference guide to the Geneva Conventions. Been a while since I went through it but IIRC it has the whole text of them.

Ah thank you very much, that will be most useful

Thanks for the responses, sorry to come across as an idiot looking to pick a fight with some girl's dad (definitely not my intention)! I shall give these a look then, thank you again

-Aaron, has some reading to do

[Patrick Degan]

Well, bear in mind some of it seems to be relative. After all, some could say that Katrina exposoed "criminal negligence or incompetence" but proving how much of Hurricane Katrina's effect could be laid at Bush's feet becomes quite a task. After all, it's true that the levees were weak when he took office, but it's also true he did nothing about it; and it's not as if he created the Hurricane himself... so in the context of the wars, the economy showing signs of weakening, and things like that, any politician would haeve had trouble trying to gather the money to start repairing levees when no one knew the Hurricane was coming.

Starting with his first year, Bush consistently, relentlessly, year by year, cut back on the levee reconstruction programme mandated by Congress in 1995 until SEAL was only a shell of its former self and the effort had ground to a halt. Bush is also responsible for turning FEMA into a haven for cronyism and folded it into the Dept. of Homeland "Security", which ended it's existence as an independent agency. Warnings that New Orleans was in danger from a major hurricane and that it's levee system badly needed upgrading had circulated for years, but that did not stop Chimpus Caesar from slashing the very project which was addressing that need, then declawing the agency most responsible for immediate Federal disaster response. So whatever can be said about the incompetence of state and local officials, a good chunk of the blame for the drowning of an American city and the 1,330 dead from that disaster can indeed be attributed to the malign neglect of the late maladministration.