Pro-Choice bill == WAR OF NORTHERN AGGRESSION!

[SirNitram]

Link

JEFFERSON CITY — The Capitol is abuzz about Rep. Bryan Stevenson, R-Webb City, who said this morning on the House floor the federal Freedom of Choice Act is the most egregious federal power grab since the “War of Northern Aggression.”

He later apologized at the urging of Rep. Don Calloway, D-St. Louis.

Stevenson made the statement during the discussion of a resolution that would urge the U.S. Congress to reject the act, which would prohibit government interference in abortion.

Although President Barack Obama has made his support for FOCA clear, state Rep. Chris Kelly, D-Columbia, pointed out that no bill has yet been filed.

“This is a meaningless resolution about imaginary legislation,” he said. “It does not do one single thing to decrease the number of abortions in the state of Missouri.”

The resolution, HR 294, has been laid over.

Is the South really still sufficiently butthurt they're using that ridiculous name for when their traitors and insurgents got put back into place?

For those wondering on the bill itself.. Legalese That might not work. Thomas.loc.gov never likes me.

Anyway, it codifies Roe v. Wade, and retroactively sets on fire and stamps on the ashes of all laws on the federal, state, and local books, then for good measure, flambes any similar ordinances, regulations, executive orders, decision, policy, or practice.

I hope it gets through. And the mocking of those places with trigger laws can begin.

[Rogue 9]

Is the South really still sufficiently butthurt they're using that ridiculous name for when their traitors and insurgents got put back into place?

Yes. Which is why I've decided to commence referring to the Confederacy by its old Abolitionist moniker of the Slave Power when speaking to anyone who uses the term.

[Bilbo]

Is the South really still sufficiently butthurt they're using that ridiculous name for when their traitors and insurgents got put back into place?

Yes. Which is why I've decided to commence referring to the Confederacy by its old Abolitionist moniker of the Slave Power when speaking to anyone who uses the term.

Also make sure to point out over and over again that the greatest southern general was James Longstreet. That really gets their panties in a bunch.

Why people still harken back to this so much I have no idea. I lived a few years in the in grade school and the mindset was already there. The kids had no idea what the ACW was really about, this was 2nd and 3rd grade after all, but they still loved to talk about how the south would rise again, etc, etc, and how they should have won the war.

[MKSheppard]

FOCA, hun? Is that the one that the Catholic Church has issued its "nuclear scorched earth" proclaimation on? E.G., if FOCA passes, the Church will shut down all of it's church owned clinics and hospitals rather than be forced to provide abortions through them?

[General Zod]

Preventing government interference is a naked power grab? Can someone explain how that broken logic supposedly works, because I'm not seeing it.

[Illuminatus Primus]

FOCA, hun? Is that the one that the Catholic Church has issued its "nuclear scorched earth" proclaimation on? E.G., if FOCA passes, the Church will shut down all of it's church owned clinics and hospitals rather than be forced to provide abortions through them?

So what? Why do we care about totalitarian organizations who think that money should be drawn from credulous donors and used to proselytize instead of actually improving conditions or healing the sick? (Mother Teresa, who said poverty was wonderful and is on her way to becoming a Saint.) I could careless if the Roman Catholic Church tries to play a modern-day struggle with the state over its prerogatives. It can haul its butthurt ass back to Rome for all I care.

[MKSheppard]

Preventing government interference is a naked power grab? Can someone explain how that broken logic supposedly works, because I'm not seeing it.

It destroys a lot of local laws on abortion. I wonder how well the other side would take it if I took FOCA's basic concept, renamed it to FODA (Freedom of Defense Act), and tried to strike down every gun law outside of federal laws in the country.

[SirNitram]

Preventing government interference is a naked power grab? Can someone explain how that broken logic supposedly works, because I'm not seeing it.

It destroys a lot of local laws on abortion. I wonder how well the other side would take it if I took FOCA's basic concept, renamed it to FODA (Freedom of Defense Act), and tried to strike down every gun law outside of federal laws in the country.

It'd be treated like most non-sequitors.

[MKSheppard]

It can haul its butthurt ass back to Rome for all I care.

It also operates 557 hospitals treating 83.7 million patients, and 417 other health care centers treating 7.2 million patients on essentially a non-profit basis. Anyone care to think what would happen to health care for low income people if the Church decided "fuck it" and shut those down rather than being forced to provide abortions through them?

[SirNitram]

It can haul its butthurt ass back to Rome for all I care.

It also operates 557 hospitals treating 83.7 million patients, and 417 other health care centers treating 7.2 million patients on essentially a non-profit basis. Anyone care to think what would happen to health care for low income people if the Church decided "fuck it" and shut those down rather than being forced to provide abortions through them?

The same that's currently happening to 45 million Americans because of idiots who screech and recoil at government handled healthcare for all?

[Illuminatus Primus]

It can haul its butthurt ass back to Rome for all I care.

It also operates 557 hospitals treating 83.7 million patients, and 417 other health care centers treating 7.2 million patients on essentially a non-profit basis. Anyone care to think what would happen to health care for low income people if the Church decided "fuck it" and shut those down rather than being forced to provide abortions through them?

I think you should ask yourself what would Jesus do? Allow all those poor people to die or not receive care to save some fetuses futilely? The Church is the entity being an asshole and putting the people up on the cutting block as a political ultimatum, not the State.

[MKSheppard]

Hum. Reading the act; it's pretty cute:

SEC. 5. SEVERABILITY.

If any provision of this Act, or the application of such provision to any person or circumstance, is held to be unconstitutional, the remainder of this Act, or the application of such provision to persons or circumstances other than those as to which the provision is held to be unconstitutional, shall not be affected thereby.

SEC. 6. RETROACTIVE EFFECT.

This Act applies to every Federal, State, and local statute, ordinance, regulation, administrative order, decision, policy, practice, or other action enacted, adopted, or implemented before, on, or after the date of enactment of this Act.

I did catch one thing.

(a) STATEMENT OF POLICY- It is the policy of the United States that every woman has the fundamental right to choose to bear a child, to terminate a pregnancy prior to fetal viability, or to terminate a pregnancy after fetal viability when necessary to protect the life or health of the woman.

(b) PROHIBITION OF INTERFERENCE- A government may not--

(1) deny or interfere with a woman's right to choose--

(A) to bear a child;

(B) to terminate a pregnancy prior to viability; or

(C) to terminate a pregnancy after viability where termination is necessary to protect the life or health of the woman; or

(2) discriminate against the exercise of the rights set forth in paragraph (1) in the regulation or provision of benefits, facilities, services, or information.

(c) CIVIL ACTION- An individual aggrieved by a violation of this section may obtain appropriate relief (including relief against a government) in a civil action.

So expect a spate of laws being passed by local governments defining "viability" as like 48 hours or some really low number.

[Illuminatus Primus]

Yes, clearly you guys should respond by politicizing medicine and making decrees over the opinion of medical doctors.

[General Zod]

Hum. Reading the act; it's pretty cute:

SEC. 5. SEVERABILITY.

If any provision of this Act, or the application of such provision to any person or circumstance, is held to be unconstitutional, the remainder of this Act, or the application of such provision to persons or circumstances other than those as to which the provision is held to be unconstitutional, shall not be affected thereby.

SEC. 6. RETROACTIVE EFFECT.

This Act applies to every Federal, State, and local statute, ordinance, regulation, administrative order, decision, policy, practice, or other action enacted, adopted, or implemented before, on, or after the date of enactment of this Act.

I did catch one thing.

(a) STATEMENT OF POLICY- It is the policy of the United States that every woman has the fundamental right to choose to bear a child, to terminate a pregnancy prior to fetal viability, or to terminate a pregnancy after fetal viability when necessary to protect the life or health of the woman.

(b) PROHIBITION OF INTERFERENCE- A government may not--

(1) deny or interfere with a woman's right to choose--

(A) to bear a child;

(B) to terminate a pregnancy prior to viability; or

(C) to terminate a pregnancy after viability where termination is necessary to protect the life or health of the woman; or

(2) discriminate against the exercise of the rights set forth in paragraph (1) in the regulation or provision of benefits, facilities, services, or information.

(c) CIVIL ACTION- An individual aggrieved by a violation of this section may obtain appropriate relief (including relief against a government) in a civil action.

So expect a spate of laws being passed by local governments defining "viability" as like 48 hours or some really low number.

I'd expect any state laws attempting to redefine medical terminology to get smacked down in short order.

[MKSheppard]

Yes, clearly you guys should respond by politicizing medicine and making decrees over the opinion of medical doctors.

That's what's going to happen. I also note that FOCA essentially buttrapes the commerce clause:

(14) Although Congress may not create constitutional rights without amending the Constitution, Congress may, where authorized by its enumerated powers and not prohibited by the Constitution, enact legislation to create and secure statutory rights in areas of legitimate national concern.

(15) Congress has the affirmative power under section 8 of article I of the Constitution and section 5 of the 14th amendment to the Constitution to enact legislation to facilitate interstate commerce and to prevent State interference with interstate commerce, liberty, or equal protection of the laws.

(16) Federal protection of a woman's right to choose to prevent or terminate a pregnancy falls within this affirmative power of Congress, in part, because--

(A) many women cross State lines to obtain abortions and many more would be forced to do so absent a constitutional right or Federal protection;

(B) reproductive health clinics are commercial actors that regularly purchase medicine, medical equipment, and other necessary supplies from out-of-State suppliers; and

(C) reproductive health clinics employ doctors, nurses, and other personnel who travel across State lines in order to provide reproductive health services to patients.

It's really cute; "Because abortion clinics are commercial entities which buy medicine etc from companies in other states, the Commerce Clause Applies!"

I really would advise NARAL, etc and the Democrat party to let this idiot bill die a quiet death in committee. Why? Because it's so broadly written and on such thin grounds in the way it defines the application of the Commerce Clause; that it could be used for a ton of other things, like for example destroying Gun Control.

[SirNitram]

Let's look at the very predictable steps.

1) When Democrats propose legislation that might take power from white old men in the right social class, play fear card.

2) Play fear card again, harder.

3) Feign giving a shit about some people to try and guilt.

4) Finally, decide the proper course of action is profoundly dishonest, unprofessional, and damaging to the rest of the world.

That.. Seems like alot of politics. I'll take bets on when the bailed-out banks rename Bonuses to be able to keep them.

[Rogue 9]

It's really cute; "Because abortion clinics are commercial entities which buy medicine etc from companies in other states, the Commerce Clause Applies!"

The Commerce Clause has been invoked with even more tortured reasoning than that in the past; nearly everything can be at least tentatively traced back to interstate commerce, so Congress uses the clause to assume authority to regulate nearly everything. This is nothing new.

[Illuminatus Primus]

That's what's going to happen.

Maybe. Maybe it shows the commitment of the pro-lifers to science and education and medicine that they are willing to override any medical body, and expertise in pursuit of their political objectives.

I also note that FOCA essentially buttrapes the commerce clause:

Dude, that's been the standing interpretation of the interstate commerce clause since FDR and the New Deal. Nothing new.

[Mayabird]

Also make sure to point out over and over again that the greatest southern general was James Longstreet. That really gets their panties in a bunch.

I prefer George Thomas, a Virginian who stayed with the Union, which contradicts that whole stupid 'romantic' view of all the southerners sticking with their beloved native land out of stupid loyalty and love or something. He isn't given the credit he deserves for being a great general, partly because he was overshadowed by Grant and Sherman, partly because he never wrote any memoirs, and partly because his greatest victories aren't even mentioned in a lot of history. I didn't learn about the Battle of Franklin and the Battle of Nashville until college, and then it was only when doing my own reading. They have to admit Grant punching the Confederacy in the face (beating Lee) and Sherman kicking them in the groin, but they leave out Thomas knifing them in the gut by smashing the second largest army.

[CarsonPalmer]

What I find ironic is that a Catholic board I've been to many times, mainly fighting people who are verging on believing that Barack Obama is the anti-Christ, is that the people there are comparing FOCA to the Fugitive Slave Law. I generally stay out of abortion threads there (for obvious reasons), but they certainly do have the right view on the Civil War.

[Mr. Coffee]

Can someone explain to me what some fucktard from Missouri has to do with "Southerners"?

[Illuminatus Primus]

Can someone explain to me what some fucktard from Missouri has to do with "Southerners"?

Its a former member of the Confederacy, most of its population looked forward to the McCain Administration, and its generally considered the South?

[Mr. Coffee]

Can someone explain to me what some fucktard from Missouri has to do with "Southerners"?

Its a former member of the Confederacy, most of its population looked forward to the McCain Administration, and its generally considered the South?

Wait, Missouri, a state that is quintessentially Midwestern is now "Southern" because almost 150 years ago they were part of the confederacy, and never mind that the rest of the country has considered them to be "midwest" for fucking decades. No, seriously, some racist fuckwad from flyover country says something retarded and it's "RAR! Southerners" again?

No, seriously, it's some peckerwood from Missouri, which is not part of the South. About the only way you can claim the guy is a "Southerner" is he was born in Texas.

[Illuminatus Primus]

Can someone explain to me what some fucktard from Missouri has to do with "Southerners"?

Its a former member of the Confederacy, most of its population looked forward to the McCain Administration, and its generally considered the South?

Wait, Missouri, a state that is quintessentially Midwestern is now "Southern" because almost 150 years ago they were part of the confederacy, and never mind that the rest of the country has considered them to be "midwest" for fucking decades. No, seriously, some racist fuckwad from flyover country says something retarded and it's "RAR! Southerners" again?

No, seriously, it's some peckerwood from Missouri, which is not part of the South. About the only way you can claim the guy is a "Southerner" is he was born in Texas.

Uh, plenty of people I know consider much of Missouri to be Southern. Why should I accept your definition? Because you just declared it on fiat? And even if you're not actually personally Southern, denouncing some law on the basis of some bullshit Confederate apologism and States' Rights agitprop like "War of Northern Aggression" immediately marks you as a Confederate/Southern apologist and sympathizer. Which is worse, because despite me living in the South and knowing people born and raised Southern, they don't actually laud and apologize for the atrocities and the aristocratic Slave Power history of the South with disinformation and Confederate-sympathizer rhetoric like "the War of Northern Aggression." Contrariwise, this retard, Southern-by-birth or not, does. But here comes your quarterly butt hurt Southern cry-baby fest.

[Master of Cards]

Missouri is 3 different areas. The Northern Farming areas are like Iowa. The Cities and college town are like most Northern Cities. The southern area of the state where Webb City is, is totally Redneck and basically Arkansas. This area is a very small portion of the state and its not what most of the state is.